Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[Shiri]

A MindTrick and Dsty post one after the other? Is this 2008 or something?

 

[Purpletuce]

Followed by a Shiri post. Old school Yoshis.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Few questions, I plan on making Yoshi a secondary so I wanna make mine strong.

So that said:

-Against projectile players, what's the best options if you're under shield pressure and didn't get to a platform/dont have a platform as a choice. I'm pretty efficient with parry already but you cannot rely on that. Is there something I'm missing?

-Is bair a good shield pressure/approaching option? I seem to get grabbed a lot using it, maybe I'm not spacing correctly?

-And finally, what's a good mindset to approach falco, falcon, and marth players in general with? Like for general play.

 

[Purpletuce]

Against projectile character's shield pressure? If you mean characters that rely upon varied projectile use, like Link or Samus, then you don't have to do anything, the projectile characters can't pressure shields. In general, if you're not on a platform, you can either grab, roll, spot dodge or release your shield (from longest time commitment to shortest). Roll usually moves you a good distance, and if they're far from you, you can usually time a roll with some guesswork to get out of a bad fix. Simply releasing shield is often useful, and often overlooked. It takes 17 frames to do, and your shield doesn't have any hitstun. If they aren't threatening you, or are throwing a projectile the can't follow up, simple release shield. Shield grab is super situational, and takes ~79 frames if you miss it. Only use it if they commit to a laggy move on your shield.

Bair has many uses. Mostly it is a spacing tool. You can also use it to bait attacks, interrupt, or start combos. Has decent range and priority, so it is usually pretty safe. Also, the IASA frames are gross. If you're getting grabbed, you're not spacing it well enough.

I can't simply tell you an entire mindset for half top tiers. Through good understanding of your character, your opponent, and their character, you'll eventually develop your own mindset.

If you have more specific questions, I can give you better answers.

 

[Jackie]

More players need to learn that aerial attacks don't have more priority than other aerial attacks— you take hits or trade hits due to hitboxes. They don't clank with each other.

You shouldn't even be shielding projects. Just attack through them or evade them.

Don't shffl bairs against shields. Feel free to autocancel it and land behind them, or do it retreating so you're outside of shield grab range.

Honestly, Yoshi's pretty bad at forcing approaches safely. You have to take risks, trade hits, or parry. People are pretty bad at noticing when a Yoshi is actually camping lol unless you're edge egg camping, so just be patient.

Versus Falco, go for safe chip damage until you can get a knockdown, then it's good to go for trades in your favor.

Falcon, just don't get grabbed or outspaced and you'll be alright.

Marth, you'll have to be extra careful spacing. Once you get a clean hit or make him shield, carry that momentum as far as you can and don't let him breathe.

 

[Kimimaru]

VMan, you didn't perform as well as usual . I think your nerves might've gotten to you.

Does anyone know if Angel or aMSa made it out of pools?

 

[Mind Trick]

Angel didn't make it out, his pool had axe (1), pi (2), thumbs, orly, and the moon, one of the toughest pools.
aMSa won WFs of his pool, really nice job.

Vman, damnnnnn, he looked way off, that sheik hectohertz should have been easy pickings if tech skill was somewhat on point.

I was really impressed with Leffen, he seems to have an even cleaner style than with apex, despite being banned from entering tournaments in the meantime LOL

 

[Kimimaru]

I found a lot of pool results, but I can't find results for aMSa's pool. Where did you find this out?

 

[Mind Trick]

From the info dump thread:

E62: Although a fellow Yoshi couldn't make it, Amsa not only survived, but he won his pool! Navn and Smashmac, the other two favorites for the pool also were eliminated and it was Flow that won in LFs!

New pools show him up against m2k, damn!
http://i.imgur.com/q6XUmKm.png

 

[6VI6]

Amsa apparently nearly beat mew2king! Set count was 2-1.
I heard he also lost to DaShizWiz for 25th, but I can't find where I read that. I think this is the best performance Yoshi has ever seen in a big tournament.

 

[Purpletuce]

If he did get 25th, that is the best result by far. At a tourney of nearly 700, that it amazing. The next best result would be Vman scoring ~33rd in a tourney of 300. Worth noting that Evo has lots of shennanigans though, like the 8th seed. . . lol

 

[aMSa]

I enjoyed playing melee in EVO!! Thank you for all SMASHERS AND YOSHI PLAYERS!!!!

and

I uploaded
EVO2013 QF W2 aMSa VS Mew2King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPj-sdcu4h4

I got 25th.It's really amazing XD.But I wanted to beat M2K.....
I think Yoshi has a lot of rooms to be stronger than now.

See you next tournaments <3

 

[Kimimaru]

Great job aMSa! 25th is amazing for a tournament consisting of around 700 entrants! I wish I could've been there to see how I'd measure up in a national and played friendlies with you and VMan.

 

[MrHazuki]

Awesome, aMSa!

 

[V3ctorMan]

@aMSa.. it was an honor, and a pleasure to play alongside of you and with you..

You did an amazing job at this tourney and I'm soooo proud... I learned so much from you, and I'm honored that you even learned some things from me... I loved teaming with you too, in all those friendlies we did.. I even loved when we faced off vs each other, and we had epic shielddrop, and parry battles, from shielddrops.. wow what an experience...

I regret, not being alongside of you, in your set vs m2k, (I was watching the AZ set) .. There are "m2k" specific type things he does, that you could've punished..he stayed with me when he visit for our "NYTE" tournament, and I got to learn alot about his sheik... Overall it was a wonderful set.. I can't wait to see you/play you again...

I wish I was also alongside with you, in your shiz set... I'm unsure how you feel on that MU, but that's one, i've come/grown to like/love... if only I could've done more..

I hope you liked my Yoshi gift(s) to you... (I still feel stupid though because I forgot the MAIN yoshi gift for you)... I'll give to you next time for sure.. <3

@Kimimaru - Honestly I didn't perform AT ALL.. I have absolutely NO idea what happened... everything seemed so off.

@Mind Trick - You are absolultely right... Sadly, of all the tournaments i've been to, my techskill has NEVER been THAT off before... it was really disappointing honestly I understand people have off days but WOW.. it just wasn't pretty for me... I was missing things, I usually don't miss, such as ECE, or even DJCtiming(s).. costly SD's, I mean I really don't know what to say besides GG's to the people I played.. Day 2, everything was much better.. but it's too late by then you know... ? Falco tech skill was off, I mean it was bad.. My set vs raistlin was hilarious also LMAO.. he rest me, at 100%, and I tried to punish with Down+B respawning you know? we're on FoD.. I'm about to do a SH>Down+B, and at the same time the platform rises... so I DJland, and because of that i'm technically now on the ground.. which caused me to Down+B right off the side of the map.. It was honestly just not a good day for me.. In that same set, 2 other ECE SD's.. just not fun

Regardless, I had GG's with them, and I did what I was able to do, but it just wasn't enough... All i can really say is good games, and I'll do better next time, and be more prepared/technically sound etc..

All in all for what it's worth I had a great time.. EVO was AMAZING! <3I got to meet/play aMSa, i got to MM, people, players.. got to meet many players that I've never met, that follow me, fan or whichever... i mean it's a very humbling experience, I mean despite what happened, there were still people that wanted to meet/greet and play me.. and of course the higher level players too... It was honestly just humbling, I was down, disappointed for a lil bit.. but everyone kept my head high regardless... whether it was Cali, AZ, FL, NY, Japan, whomever.. Went sightseeing, I can't wait for my next tourney...

I'll be training harder than I ever have before.. it will be great, and i'm excited/prepared for the challenge..

<3 you aMSa,
<3 you yoshi boards

Let's revolutionize this character!

Lead the way aMSa, Kimimaru, Mind Trick, Purpletuce, Dstycube, Angel, and all aspiring Yoshi mains..

 

[Purpletuce]

What a sweet post.

I think the best part about aMSa's standout performance is that it means there have now been two Yoshi players with standout performances at global scale tournaments. I think this will get around via word-of-mouth pretty quickly. People might start to think Yoshi is a character with more potential to be played competitively, as opposed to a character with one standout player.

Also, I can't wait to see some Yoshi play! I worked all weekend, so I didn't get to see much on stream, but it will be exciting to see the games uploaded, and I will have so much to take notes on!

 

[MrHazuki]

Yoshi requires so much more than the other characters. Some days you just can't play him. We really sympathize with you, Vman. Everyone here knows exactly how it feels when that happens.

 

[Purpletuce]

True. . . I usually go Falco or some other easy character to play. Unless it is tourney, then I just whine and lose.

 

[Kimimaru]

Some awesome friendlies at EVO against top players on aMSa's channel:

Vs. Armada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XuKdvJPDWM
Vs. Hungrybox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlvoNOUISe4
Vs. Hax: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0MClP7iVeE

aMSa is definitely pushing Yoshi in the right direction!

 

[Purpletuce]

Wow, aMSa too good. I've only watched vs. Hbox right now, but he is really good. I'm glad there is finally some recent puff footage up. Be careful with dsmash on puff's shield, it is super easy to rest.

Also, vman vs amsa in teams. . . mindgames.

Edit: I just found something interesting. . . probably been seen before. If you dthrow under a lot platform, you'll finish the throw on top of the platform.

 

[Kimimaru]

That's because Yoshi moves up slightly during D-throw. The same thing happens with U-smash.

 

[Purpletuce]

I knew why it happens, I just never knew it happens. I don't grab much(working on it) and it is common for people around here to leave fod off for teams, so I rarely play on it. Also, I don't grab under platforms much. I figure it isn't as worth it if you can't Uair chain. I usually do a dthrow fullhop Dair after getting a grab under platforms.

Recently messed around with Fthrow/Bthrow into pivot Fsmash. Might have some potential . . .

Also, is Uthrow -> fulljump Uair is a thing? Haven't tested vs. players, but it seems to work on a large range of percentages, and most non-fasfallers. . . I noticed this a while ago, but never got around to testing it.

Also, has anyone messed with jab/ftilt on shield -> dash back pivot fsmash? Seems like it might be a good little trap.

Edit: I just tried something, has anyone ever used grab(on spacies at 0%), Dthrow, walk under them, D-smash so they get hit with both hits? It puts them at nearly 30%, and either gives you a techchase or an edgeguard.

 

[Kimimaru]

U-throw -> U-air most likely isn't a thing, but I think it may be a few frames off from being one on certain characters.

If they DI D-throw correctly, you shouldn't be able to do that to them. I haven't tried it, but do you mean hitting them backwards with the first hit and the second hit will punish a missed tech?

 

[Purpletuce]

Uthrow Uair seems like a thing where it isn't guaranteed, but they don't have much they can do about it. Again, I haven't tried it against people, but it seems like they can only try to DI, or some characters could Dair. Either way, it doesn't send floaties as high as dthrow. . . which is useful sometimes.

If they DI Dthrow correctly, Yoshi doesn't get anything, ever. I'm talking about getting past them, so your first hit of dsmash hits with the reverse hitbox, and knocks them into the second hit before they land. When I do this to CPUs, they always get up immediately, so this might work kind of like a reset? I'm not sure about that, but it could definitely be a tech trap.

 

[Mind Trick]

More videos on amsa's channel versus various good players if you guys didn't know yet.

Vman, was it perhaps nerves, lack of warmup or maybe the pressure of being streamed?

amsa, how long have you been playing melee? I seem to remember reading somewhere it wasn't that long, but your fundamentals seem pretty strong already.

You guys make me want to practise again and get back in the scene :D

 

[Engo]

Amsa best yoshi what up!

Anyone know what his bracket lineup was?

 

[MrHazuki]

Please do! We need some more EU-Yoshis, Mind Trick. :D

 

[V3ctorMan]

@mind trick... nah I love being on stream... I love the exposure... and no I wasn't nervous.... definitely the first one lack of warm ups lack a set ups... it was definitely technical errors with my tech skill
..

its like this I woke up at 7 a.m. to watch all the matches everything like that... my very first match was at 4. which also happens to be my first game
like many of us fatigue began can take place

it's unfortunate you guys didn't get to see you'll see what I mean if you saw... how bad my technical skill was in the amount of SDs I had...

again though no Johns for me I just wasn't very well prepared... and I underestimated my competition

 

[Jackie]

In all seriousness though, great job aMSa. I saw the four-stock versus SilentSpectre, great consistent execution and talent you have.

 

[Kimimaru]

It seems that aMSa's performance has sparked an interest in Yoshi for quite a few people. I'm going to a tournament this Saturday, and someone wants me to teach him Yoshi while I'm there.

On another note, I really hope I get some videos this time around. It's going to be a pretty stacked tournament since Mango and other people from SoCal are coming, so we may have 2+ recording setups this time around as opposed to only one at most of our locals.

 

[MrHazuki]

Good luck. :D

 

[JKJ]

True. . . I usually go Falco or some other easy character to play. Unless it is tourney, then I just whine and lose.

I came here for Vman and Amsah

yet somehow no matter where I go Purpletuce is finding a way to say that Falco is easy or broken

Legit though, Yoshi's mad hard to play, and I do have a pretty good Yoshi, so I do know about Yoshi tech and how hard it is

 

[Purpletuce]

Why did you bother posting? You literally had nothing to say.

The last time I read about you, I saw some NY tourney where you entered and got pretty much last place. You're probably not at a level where you understand what I'm talking about. Trust me, once you get past basic tech skill, Falco will be easy/intuitive to play.

 

[JKJ]

What NY tourney was that? Probably Blu Planet, that's the only one where results were posted i think.
It's alright, sometimes we all have off days. I did get 4th at another local, though. I usually win 2-3 of my bracket matches at every tournament I go to.
Lol at getting past basic tech skill, I don't have any tech flubs (probably about once per set I'll do something I didn't mean to/miss a combo or DI or something) and I'm waaaayyy past basic tech skill level.

In response to your obvious assumed superiority, I offer this as a rebuttal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

As to your continued claim about Falco being easy to play
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt

 

[Purpletuce]

You just keep uselessly posting. You talk in a way that makes you sound like you don't have a solid understanding of the game. You cited Falco's Fsmash as the reason he is good. I'm not salty about losing to Falcos, the last time I MMed the best Falco in Oregon, I won 2-1. The last time I played the best Falco in WA was in NWM5, I won 2-0. I'm not salty about losing to Falco, I just think he is easier to play than people make him sound.

I'm going to ignore you now, you've literally never said anything worthwhile.

 

[Kimimaru]

I came here for Vman and Amsah

yet somehow no matter where I go Purpletuce is finding a way to say that Falco is easy or broken

Legit though, Yoshi's mad hard to play, and I do have a pretty good Yoshi, so I do know about Yoshi tech and how hard it is

To be honest, if you're looking on the Yoshi boards, you're going to see Purpletuce here because he is a Yoshi main. If you came here for VMan or aMSa, then you should've just looked at their posts or asked them some questions instead of talking about Purpletuce.

EDIT: My post wasn't hostile in any way. I'd just rather have more productive discussion going on in these boards.

 

[JKJ]

You just keep uselessly posting. You talk in a way that makes you sound like you don't have a solid understanding of the game. You cited Falco's Fsmash as the reason he is good. I'm not salty about losing to Falcos, the last time I MMed the best Falco in Oregon, I won 2-1. The last time I played the best Falco in WA was in NWM5, I won 2-0. I'm not salty about losing to Falco, I just think he is easier to play than people make him sound.

I'm going to ignore you now, you've literally never said anything worthwhile.

I love when you completely make up things that I never said. I never once, ever, cited Falco's fsmash as a reason he is good. Ever. We never even discussed whether or not Falco was good, only how the Falco/Yoshi matchup played out. You cited the fact that Falco's fsmash breaks your double jump at ~45% as a valid reason to say that Yoshi's double jump was easily broken. I merely pointed out how useless Falco's fsmash is as a barometer for how well Falco can break Yoshi's double jump, because if you are getting hit out of your double jump with fsmash, you are being outplayed severely. You then said the famous words "Your b-air and d-air can always go through my recovery." Then in your next post you said the exact words "I did not say your B-air/D-air always go through my recovery." Not kidding, that's a direct quote. Go look at our conversation in the Falco thread. Here, I'll even link it for you: http://smashboards.com/threads/hate-on-falco-who-cares.329021/
Post #'s 9 and 43 are your posts where you directly contradict yourself. All are welcome to go and see that I in no way said anything regarding Falco's fsmash as a reason he is good.

You sit upon a throne of lies.

To be honest, if you're looking on the Yoshi boards, you're going to see Purpletuce here because he is a Yoshi main. If you came here for VMan or aMSa, then you should've just looked at their posts or asked them some questions instead of talking about Purpletuce.

EDIT: My post wasn't hostile in any way. I'd just rather have more productive discussion going on in these boards.

Sorry, kimimaru, I have no quarrel with you. I just don't enjoy Purpletuce's constant habit of telling others that I said things which I never did. He has done this on several occasions in an attempt to discredit me and my posting quality, which I value. I don't like liars, and here we have a prime example of a liar, whose slanderous statement is debunked above. I don't want to clog up the Yoshi boards any longer. Sorry for your time. And don't worry, you didn't come across as hostile. All good my dude.

 

[Purpletuce]

So does anyone have any ideas on a topic worth talking about? If nobody has any ideas, I think talking about ICs would be interesting, considering all the hype they've been getting since EVO. I knew Vman has some information on the MU, and I wouldn't be surprised if aMSa did as well . . .

 

[JKJ]

Great Rebuttal.
Way to entirely dodge any responsibility for being a liar, contradicting yourself, and insulting me.

A+.

 

[MrHazuki]

Please keep your quarrel to yourself. To humiliate another in public should be below us Yoshi-mains.

I got to play at the European Speedrunners Assembly (ESA) in Skövde, Sweden. I played against Ying and we did an Iron Man contest (crew-battle with our 5 best characters), where Yoshi vs. Roy was the first match.
Roy is incredibly easy for Yoshi! Pretty much everything Yoshi does bodies Roy severely. It was a 3-stock for me. After that I cried as his Falco avenged poor old Royboy. I managed to win in the end. It was the first time I was on stream for 1500 people.