Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[Mind Trick]

Well if you want a real combo you can do F-air -> running grab, but it's not as effective as including the DJC N-air at lower percents.

EDIT: Any Yoshi players here have any experience against Jigglypuff? I have basically none and would like to see videos of the matchup, if possible. If not, any advice would be great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwr-fX1d-2A
I have this one, it's pretty old though.

 

[Kimimaru]

On the tier list thread I remember Leffen saying Yoshi has three 100% invincible ledgestalls. Does someone think they can make a video of each of them? I don't fully understand all of them. Here's his quote:

As for the rest of his ledge game, he is equipped with THREE different 100% invincible ledge stalls.
He can first off do a simple DJ->down B (this has been known before) but I've found out that you can actually do DJ->ledgedash slipoff->grab the ledge ->repeat. Even better, you can do DJ->Double jump landing->runoff->Djsweetspot (yoshi only AT).

When I do DJ -> Down B I always get hit out of it.

 

[Ripple]

When I do DJ -> Down B I always get hit out of it.

you're probably too slow. a lot of 100% ledge stalls aren't humanly possible. like bowsers

 

[Purpletuce]

Hey everybody, I've recently had problems with Falco, and have read matchup advice before, but I was wondering if anyone has recent advice out, or any tips. My biggest problem is getting a hit off. Once I can get him, combos aren't hard, and I think I can DI decently enough, but I can't get through his lasers well enough. I can hit with eggs though, and against Falcos that aren't too good or don't know about the MU, I can get a lot of CC responses. Any tips?

 

[Kimimaru]

Sometimes I throw an egg at him to respond to his lasers. He will have to take a break from lasering to shield or avoid the egg unless he wants to get hit by it. That's your chance to approach. Alternatively you can parry them, but that takes quite a bit of practice to get down consistently. I don't like CCing against him because he'll most likely follow up on his aerial approach with a shine, which can lead to you taking a lot of damage.

Anyway, I'd avoid FD and choose a stage like Battlefield or Dreamland. Yoshi needs platforms to shine in my opinion. I'd say Dreamland is the best stage to fight him on because it's basically impossible for him to kill you from the top unless you have ~200%, and with some good DI he'll also have trouble killing you from the side because of Yoshi's natural bulk. On the other hand, you have absolutely no problem gimping him with D-tilt or killing him with D-smash at like 60% from the edge, so use that to your advantage.

EDIT: I was fighting Shroomed's Falco a few days ago and realized that FD might be better than Battlefield because Falco can't use the platforms to combo you as much and you can do DJC U-air combos all day on him. Then again, you don't have platforms for help, but if you can parry lasers pretty consistently I think FD would be a better stage for Yoshi overall.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Also to answer your question^

The thread is still here... it hasn't been responded to in a month since not much action has been going on, but since I've now returned... I'll revive the thread and get back on my yoshi motive, and get back to helping out..

LOL bump >.<

 

[Krynxe]

Welcome back vman!

I'm working on my Yoshi. He really is a tough character, but tons of fun.

 

[Purpletuce]

Perhaps now that you are back Vman, would you care to add your opinion of the Falco MU?

 

[Purpletuce]

Different topic, directed to everyone! I'm thinking of my biggest prob,lem in nearly all MUs, the neutral, position. More often than not, I can't start a combo as well as my opponent, and can't rack up as much damage, so I'm trying to implement Yoshi's ,maneuverability more, and have tried some wierd things, djl is interesting, and wavedash -> moonwalk (sometimes stickywalk) messes with people. Foxtrot with Yoshi is lol-worthy, and even randomly walking can scare some people. Does anyone think random movement in awkward ways could actually be useful. Also, I have an idea in my head of countering things with parry -> djl -> D-smash, thoughts?

 

[V3ctorMan]

Allrite I'm back and remotivated after 5 months... Can't wait to begin playing again.... sorry for being inconsistent with appearances, but i should be back for good now... I'll be here alot more often too, again sorry Yoshi boards ^^;

Anyway, nothin better then coming back with some new videos after a long break so here's some more classics...

vs Axe (Falco) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L2Ju-RjLpo *Set 1*
vs Axe (Falco) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQM3H7K8lNE *Set 2*

Enjoy everyone! ^^

Comment, critique etc if you wanna <3

Back for good hopefully ^^

^^ I guess it's official now.. i'm back

Enjoy videos ^^

and i'll comment on MU i will i will... i just don't know how to word it... ><

 

[Purpletuce]

Hey there Yoshi boards. I went to the biggest tournament I've ever been to yesterday, and played lots of good players! Unfortunately I lost to Bladewise (WA Peach who took a set off Mango at a Rule 6 a while back) and a Oregon Falco who I play with often (I choked and SDed twice and messed up some silly things.)

I'll post more later about some of my matches and what I learned, including games with: SilentWolf, Bladewise, Eggz, CiZ, Toph, Eggz, Gimpyfish and a ton more (but you guys probably would have only heard of those).

Summary: Peach MU isn't as bad as I thought but eggs were a horrible option unless they are off stage, Falco MU is still a problem, Fox, when used by high level smashers is scary. Shield drop is more useful against good players than bads. Parry is useful against bads(notably Falcons) who overextend combos. (Roll or Tech into parry is sweet against slow people.) got the whole stage tech sequence I posted about recently, but only twice, and I either did it too slow (came up short) or missed the jump(dodge into stage).

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hey man, again it's all a learning process, and that's good that you at least got some experience in it too.... I was thrown into everything, once I started, haha, I guess I just got luckier.. at P5, but I got rocked alot also... I personally can't STAND the Peach MU, but that's because my playstyle... I can always slow it down, but meh, that's not fun.... I got to play Eggz in that MU, at apex. (I got 1 stocked by him) but yeah, I def know how you feel...

Only peaches I play are SK... I do much better vs OoS peaches.. a.k.a, (peaches that prolly don't know the MU) Also, you sorta bumped this thread..

*sigh* i seriously do need to, bump, the Analysis channel, and here too, perhaps... It's my goal after Thanksgiving to have more updated threads, w/recent videos etc...

Glad you had fun at the tourney, hope to see your writeup soon

 

[Purpletuce]

Twice I managed to go last stock with bladewise BTW, one time he was at 70 something... I wanted that game so bad... Oh well. All the boards need a bump! :D

 

[Nogzor'z]

Sounds like things are happening. That's good, gives me something to anticipate

 

[Purpletuce]

I don't know if you AZ guys ever heard of Northwest Manifest, but I might be going to that as well . . . AZ should come! (But that would be a huge trip for you guys D: )

 

[Nogzor'z]

heh that would be quite the trip, although I do have a buddy of mine who lives in Washington.
When's the tourney?

 

[Purpletuce]

April I believe. Not certain if the specific date will be announced, Axe made it last time. . . as well as some other big names. I think PP won it.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Ahh... well so long as it's not soon.
I'll make note of it.

On an unrelated note, any idea on what the frame data looks like for yoshi's f-smash of an opponent's shield?

 

[Kimimaru]

I believe a well-spaced F-smash prevents you from getting grabbed and provides enough shield stun for the opponent to not grab you (provided you try to dodge the grab after).

 

[Purpletuce]

Notes about F-smash: Head invincible 2 frames before hit and entire duration of hit to increase priority, during most of the animation, Yoshi is lower than average, so moves OoS are harder to hit with.

The move first hits on frame 12(probably when you'll hit with it), and provides 9 frames of shieldstun (assuming no stale multiplier) so the enemy can't do anything until your 21st frame. The move ends on frame 47, but is IASA frame 44, so they have 23 frames to do something. So for the most part, it could be punished, but they have to expect it and do things very nicely, or have a good OoS option. (Bowser will get you really easy with an UpB OoS, but a Roy might need to WD OoS -> grab to make it worth while (6 frame jump + 10 frame WD lag + 7 frame grab =23 frames, so that might not work.) REally depends on the character and what they can do. However, if players don't know what they can do to it . . . you're probably fine.

Also, if you want to see a slow-mo gif of the move, and Leffen talking about how sweet it is, look in the earlier posts on this thread. . . I don't want to find it atm, but its there.

 

[Nogzor'z]

The move first hits on frame 12(probably when you'll hit with it), and provides 9 frames of shieldstun (assuming no stale multiplier) so the enemy can't do anything until your 21st frame. The move ends on frame 47, but is IASA frame 44, so they have 23 frames to do something. So for the most part, it could be punished, but they have to expect it and do things very nicely, or have a good OoS option. (Bowser will get you really easy with an UpB OoS, but a Roy might need to WD OoS -> grab to make it worth while (6 frame jump + 10 frame WD lag + 7 frame grab =23 frames, so that might not work.) REally depends on the character and what they can do. However, if players don't know what they can do to it . . . you're probably fine.

That's exactly what I was looking for!
I've noticed that I have been getting nice parries off OoS options after I hit an opponents shield with F-smash. It seems like I should be getting punished by like SH OoS > aerial frame wise...
Oh well, hopefully I get to test and play with many tactics this weekend

 

[Purpletuce]

Oh, I remember doing the numbers on D-smash as well, if you hit with the first hit, backwards, so they're knocked into the second hit, I think it is even harder to punish. I've tried to implement it before, but it is weird. . . I'll post numbers soon if I can remember and aren't lazy

 

[Nogzor'z]

yeah implementing both D-smash sweeps during an opponents shield can be tricky, but looks nifty and can score some nice hits.

Thanks in advanced, Purp.

 

[Purpletuce]

D-smash isn't much better than F-smash, but it is better. Although they really have different uses, the D-smash thing assumed you to be in their face, and starts up quicker, and F-smash as more of a spacing check. The numbers on the D-smash after hitstun are a 5 frame window between hits (so they're almost certainly going to get hit if they try to get out) and after the second hit is 20 frames advantage(1 frame better than F-smash, not really noticeable.) But the D-smash can shield poke with the second hit pretty well, and if nothing else gets your opponent out of your face. (coming out on frame 6 vs frame 12 is pretty nice though.)

 

[Nogzor'z]

^Interesting information, indeed (III)

So I was messing around with the notion that if C-stick is held up and you shield, you will "auto-parry" or at least jump out of the shielding animation.
Thought about it for a bit and then reset my controller while holding down on the C-stick so that the default position is always up. After doing so Yoshi now jumps whenever a full shield is initiated in the first six(?) frames of shielding (as if one were going for a parry). Light shielding is unaffected.

Found the whole resetting controlling idea neat, although I get a strange feeling this may have already been discussing. The controller "mod" part, at least. I know the C-stick up to "parry" has come up in the past somewhere.

 

[Purpletuce]

It has been brought up, and is legal. Although, the buffer works on frame one, making the hardest possible window. It is easier to manually input it and get a six times bigger window. Worth testing I guess.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Makes sense.

 

[Purpletuce]

Also stops Yoshi from being able to regular shield unless you hold down on the C-stick? sounds weird, but something worth trying probably. Might affect gameplay quite a bit.

 

[Ripple]

I really hope you yoshi mains will test out SD remix yoshi at apex

 

[Purpletuce]

I don't know anyone that has SD remix. . . sell me on SD remix vs. P:M

 

[Ripple]

it's actually melee physics. not simulated melee physics on a brawl game.

also, yoshi is good

 

[Purpletuce]

How are there actual Melee physics? Is it like modding Melee? As in Yoshi looks like Yoshi?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's modding Melee.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah, it's just like the brawl+ equivalent for melee, from what I've heard

 

[Nogzor'z]

it's actually melee physics. not simulated melee physics on a brawl game.

also, yoshi is good

but... but...
Yoshi IS good :/

 

[Purpletuce]

^ angel is awesome

Since I'm so accustomed to melee yoshi, I doubt ill like the remix, but we will see... I have p:m yoshi... Don't like it.

 

[Ripple]

if you like vanilla strawberry yoshi more than PM yoshi, then you'll love Remix yoshi.

we didn't really change any of his moves. and we can't change animation any way so....

 

[Purpletuce]

I don't like the sound of vanilla yoshi.

Also, I tried buffering with c stick down, and it does have a 1 frame window. Also, it messes with like... Everything. Cool idea though.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Hah yeah, it really does make gameplay weird. I just thought it was neat.

So the whole flavored yoshi thing is confusing me... Regardless choco-yoshi would be my favortie.

 

[Purpletuce]

Talking about P:M Yoshi? Yeah, for the most part I thought he was better but would take getting used to, and a good amount of his moves now probably better serve different purposes.