Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[Strong Badam]

Just try different spacings. It's a grounded egg throw and you slide off during it.

ehhh, its kinda like DK dittos. Green wins the MU, but blue has a couple tricks.

you just don't understand anything about DK colors

 

[Bing]

Black DK is where its at.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I hate how hard it is to evaluate this character.

 

[Nogzor'z]

I like yoshi and evaluations so my mood shifts from love to hate from time to time.

 

[knightpraetor]

KK, you play sheik. the evaluation isn't hard

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik isn't the only played character in the game.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Hooray for more yoshi!
These matches are tourney vids (for those who might not have interest in the friendlies I posted a while ago)

Vs wobbles (Mario) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30TbphwaE6Y

Vs Okami (Sheik) part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOeupq3CP9c

Vs Okami (Sheik) part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNLCoXiwEt8

Vs Corigames (Samus) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBDuoW_DpBw

 

[Krynxe]

Very cool videos. Very fun Yoshi to watch

 

[Nogzor'z]

Thanks, )

 

[Silly Kyle]

Sad you weren't able to make it to Taj's tourney, Angel!

 

[Nogzor'z]

Yeah, its quite unfortunate. Hopefully my bros and I will be able to attend some of the upcoming tourneys this summer.

 

[Kimimaru]

What's the best way to edgeguard Falcon? I play a lot of Falcons and often have trouble against ones who can consistently sweetspot the ledge.

 

[PGH Carroll]

against sweetspoting the edge. just D tilt. or grab the edge with the DJ back technique

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

The world needs more good yoshi vids

 

[Kimimaru]

What do people think of the matchup against Ganondorf? I think it's definitely in Ganondorf's favor because he can break Yoshi's heavy armor very easily with his powerful attacks. However, Yoshi can edgeguard him pretty well, and since Ganondorf is slow he probably won't be able to react well to juggles. Parries should also be considerably easier to pull off against him because of the delay his attacks have. It's also important to note that Yoshi can crouch under his jab.

 

[Krynxe]

Being quick and keeping up pressure with DJC nairs will make it difficult for Ganon for zone or do much to you

 

[Kason Birdman]

what do I do to escape pressure? Its become to much of a habit to fall into my shield and then wd back or OoS something, but with yoshi they are obviously not options. I try to just keep my distance and always wd back/forth

how **** is yoshis sidestep?

 

[Kimimaru]

I roll to escape pressure and it usually works. If you're on a platform you can also shield drop, which is essential to learn when playing Yoshi in my opinion.

 

[Nogzor'z]

Yoshi has plenty of ways to escape pressure (some unique to yoshi and some universal).

Things like rolling or shield dropping or just plain running/wd away can work. Shield dropping can work wonders to turn the tide if executed properly.

Yoshi can also make use of his lightshield to block an opponents attack and slide away to safety.
Yoshi's double jump armor can also be useful in escaping opponents pressure, and perhaps countering by unleashing an attack of your own after the opponent hits you during DJ.
Parrying can also be used in the same manner as the DJ to nullify an attack and immediately counter with your own.

The problem with tactics like running away or lightshielding is that you give up control of stage which means less room for you to move making it easier for the opponent to keep on pressure.

Dealing with pressure properly requires you to be unpredictable with your means of escaping. By remaining vigilant in what your opponent is doing, one should be able choose escape tactics properly and not fall into traps. Basically figure out your opponents pressuring tendencies before they can overwhelm you.

I've always been a fan of staying nimble so you can't become pressured into doing a defensive commitment.

If this is vague at all, my bad :/
I don't think there's a problem with yoshi's sidestep as opposed to other characters, is there?

 

[Blistering Speed]

This character is ****ing ********. You can immediately activate invincibility frames on the ground (an option select, no less) and heavy armour in the air, both of which you can attack from sans lag. You can auto pilot light shield camp on platforms and never get hit, ever. Isn't egg throw on the ledge entirely invincible as well? What the ****.

 

[Kimimaru]

Keep in mind that good players will catch on and grab you if you keep shielding. You have to mix up your options. Ledge Egg Throw is invincible if done optimally, but that's pretty tough to do consistently.

Good to see someone else catching on to Yoshi's potential .

 

[Blistering Speed]

Empty hop grab is literally most character's only option on the platform, and it's a ridiculously unsafe movement. Just shield drop and hurt them, it's so easy to observe and react to.

 

[Kason Birdman]

good post nog, also i must ask. how do you parry?

I have neeevverrr looked it up, ive just started having fun with yoshi recently.

 

[Kimimaru]

Yoshi is completely invincible during the first few frames of his shielding animation. Yoshi is also able to jump during these frames. If you time it right, your opponent's attack will hit you during these invincibilty frames, and right after you can do a DJC nair or punish of your choice.

 

[Nogzor'z]

What a nice spur of discussion.

The things yoshi can do definitely sound and are amazing, and yet very little people play him or even try to use him. Well, what can you do?

For a nice, thorough, parry description, look through the yoshi guides stickied in the yoshi fourm.

Although, Kimimaru summed it up nicely. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask. It is the gen. discussion after all.

 

[Kason Birdman]

so you can jump out of his shield in early frames? the frames before the egg comes up?

 

[Kimimaru]

Yup; they're also the frames you're invincible.

 

[Kimimaru]

Sorry for the double post, but I want to bring up something Leffen said in the tier list thread:

Ness/Yoshi both require immense amount of work. You can't just play Yoshi and expect to do well in a random friendly.

This is one of the main reason to why I don't play Yoshi anymore. You need to MAIN him to use him to his full potential. My attempts at playing him as a secondary would do injustice to the character

Honestly, I can't help but agree with this. Yoshi takes a lot of skill to master, but I think it pays off. When I play with friends (who are good, by the way), they always end up being amazed by some of the things I do with Yoshi because they didn't know he was capable of doing them. I'm sure that most of my friends now think that Yoshi is a much better character than they previously thought before, and I'm currently pushing for him to be raised a bit on the tier list because I know he has more potential.

How high does everyone else think Yoshi's difficulty curve is?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yoshi is top 3 hardest in the game.

I'm gonna start using him I think, simply because of his untapped potential.

 

[Purpletuce]

Hey, I've been playing Yoshi for a while now, and I can hold my own against the mid level players in Oregon, but not on the PR yet. I've had problems with a few things, and would like some help. I usually cannot pull off a fair->DJC nair->grab on most characters, and often get shined out of the combo, possibly I'm not hitting the ground quickly enough? Also, I cannot consistently pull of a reverse ECE. I read a post about it before and it still confuses me. Finally, I was wondering if anyone had a good up-to-date strategy against jiggs.

 

[Kimimaru]

I also have trouble with reverse ECEs, so I suppose it just takes practice. What you have to do is flick the control stick away from the edge you're grabbing to get off it, then move it a quarter circle up so you're as close to the ledge as possible. This must be done really quickly so you don't fall to your doom, though.

For your combo, I think you just might need to have a more precise DJC N-air.

 

[Mind Trick]

For RECE, just let go at a 7 o'clock (or 5 o'clock) angle and you won't drift away as much from the ledge.
I use x after that to jump, up could work as well if you're used to that.

 

[Purpletuce]

Awesome, also, I read Leffen saying that bair into double jump auto-waveland *****. . . What is that? And I still cannot fair->DJC Nair->grab =\

 

[Kimimaru]

I think by that he means if you connect your B-air as you're approaching a platform and DJ to change your direction but DJ land on the platform. Since DJ land has no lag and you're on the ground, you can do whatever you want at that point.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I usually cannot pull off a fair->DJC nair->grab on most characters, and often get shined out of the combo, possibly I'm not hitting the ground quickly enough?

It's not a true combo.

 

[Purpletuce]

Ok then, I've seen it done before, is it a thing where you have to assume your opponent doesn't put up shield/shine out?

 

[Krynxe]

If you're getting shined out of your combos, you might want to put some practice in to improve your spacing. Remember that hitting your opponent with a move from as far away as possible is generally what you're looking for, after taking into account where the sweetspot/sourspot/etc is on a hitbox

 

[Kimimaru]

Well if you want a real combo you can do F-air -> running grab, but it's not as effective as including the DJC N-air at lower percents.

EDIT: Any Yoshi players here have any experience against Jigglypuff? I have basically none and would like to see videos of the matchup, if possible. If not, any advice would be great.

 

[Blistering Speed]

EDIT: Any Yoshi players here have any experience against Jigglypuff? I have basically none and would like to see videos of the matchup, if possible. If not, any advice would be great.

One of the better videos available.

Leffen's and Vman's thoughts.

 

[Kimimaru]

Thanks for that! I'll probably be at Rule 6 if everything goes according to plan, so expect some Yoshi representation! I'm not sure if they're streaming at all or recording pools, so let's just hope they are.