Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[toasty]

so am I the only one who likes to use dash attack against an attempted legdegrab from:
Fox/Falco/Ganon/Falcon?

obviously against spacies it's highly situational but they usually don't see it coming and a lot of people don't know that dash attack extends over the edge but it's good for covering full and shortened illusions [though the shortened one is quite difficult to hit]

if I know the player well enough, I have an idea of when he will shorten it, so I just dtilt and that's been serving me well



When will a Falco [Fox players tend not to shorten their illusion as often] shorten the phantasm?
If the Falco is good at sweet spotting, and is not only above the edge height-wise, but relatively close to the stage [say...short enough for a shortened phantasm to still barely reach the edge], there's a really good chance they will shorten it, in my experience anyway [against Ch0ps and SleeepyK, for the most part, and it's what I do with Falco XD]

dtilt is only good, though, if you can read what they're going to do.

in the situation I just detailed, you can afford to wait a split second longer after the start-up noise before you do the angled f-tilt

 

[LAX_]

YES dash attack!
only relatively recently i found out that dash attack fully outprioritizes fox/falco's up-b.
i never use it though when playing seriously with my friends unless i am running but can't make it to do an ftilt, so i do a dash attack

 

[N64]

I dash attack occasionally for edgeguarding (and now also occasionally on stage, it's a silly move). Usually I'll do it when I can't otherwise make it to the edge before them and don't feel like trying to quickattackhog (unsure of if i'll make it there first, with being wrong resulting in death). The cool thing i think about dash attack edgeguarding is it can put you right on the edge without falling off, and spacies will usually fall a little after they get hit and then start their upB again, so i'll just dash attack, hold forward, and drop off fair/dair.

 

[festizzio]

I realized that dash attack stops them when they sweet spot the ledge with their up b from above the ledge. At least it did this one time, and it didn't trade hits. ftilt always seems to miss in those cases, it's like dtilt or go home.

Also, fair is good for getting firebird/foxes underneath the stage. Like if they're in that weird place where you know they can angle it to sweetspot, you can grab the ledge, fastfall fair, then double jump uair. Fair is just an amazing [edge guard] move in general.

 

[TresChikon]

They only reason why ledge-canceled firefoxes are so good is that the timing is tricky with attacks that don't last too long.

F-smash would cover that pretty well. Although, for some reason, you can also JC grab at the ledge and catch Fox/Falco pretty reliably. Grabs have inifinite priority, so if it's well timed, you won't have to worry about trading hits.

 

[AXE 09]

They only reason why ledge-canceled firefoxes are so good is that the timing is tricky with attacks that don't last too long.

F-smash would cover that pretty well. Although, for some reason, you can also JC grab at the ledge and catch Fox/Falco pretty reliably. Grabs have inifinite priority, so if it's well timed, you won't have to worry about trading hits.

even if the grab and the up-b do trade, it still works in your favor cuz they get semi-spiked or something like that lol

 

[D. Disciple]

to where i'm ALMOST teetering. i don't wanna stand THAT close cuz sometimes instead of the Ftilt, i'll accidently fall off and Fair, but pretty much as close as i can get without actually teetering.

oh, and a single jab edgeguard is actually ok against falcon or ganon, unless they know it's coming and just keep spamming up B, then you'll get Falcon Yes!'d

jab-dsmash if you predict to spam up-b again.

 

[TresChikon]

Is there any move Pika can't use to edgeguard?

 

[AXE 09]

....taunt? maybe lol

 

[DtJ Jungle]

taunt distracts the opponent causing them to mess up their recovery.

 

[festizzio]

dodge roll
side-step
air dodge
shield
any move on the opposite edge than your opponent is recovering

 

[tdk_Samurai]

shield

try that against a marth, I think you'll do just fine

 

[-Chad-]

I tried to taunt edgeguard darkrain.

I failed.

 

[festizzio]

try that against a marth, I think you'll do just fine

Dang lol, I guess that works. You could also powershield a falco's laser who's recovering, maybe he'll accidentally air dodge off the side. :D

 

[AXE 09]

taunt distracts the opponent causing them to mess up their recovery.

*gasp* i need to do this more often XD

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey you know what works right? up-B staight into their face when they are falcon my brother was so stunned he didn't know what to do and ended up SDing.

also you guys don't know HOW to taunt staight up you need Godly mindgames I mean my brother will never attack a taunting pichu again (works with pika too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8M9WqCvCk SSSOOOOOO broken pichu's taunt is so cute/broken it can set you on fire better than roys sword

 

[AXE 09]

Hey you know what works right? up-B staight into their face when they are falcon my brother was so stunned he didn't know what to do and ended up SDing.

also you guys don't know HOW to taunt staight up you need Godly mindgames I mean my brother will never attack a taunting pichu again (works with pika too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8M9WqCvCk SSSOOOOOO broken pichu's taunt is so cute/broken it can set you on fire better than roys sword

LOL!!! not gonna lie, that video was amazing! lmao!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

hahahah that was pretty funny.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

indeed when people think i,m stupid I am but not for the reason they say. I really have a clue what i,m saying. but be careful with the all broken taunt people will john more than wobbling.

I,ve heard some once say that's a useless advanced tech really it should be in mindgames 3 and other epic stuff.

Sorry i,m off the wall I,,m thinking about 3 times at once

 

[LAX_]

today i was practicing chaingrabbing with Pika on a fox (lvl1cpu).
i know practicing chaingrabbbing against CPUs is dumb since most of the time they won't DI/barely DI.
But sometimes they DI a lot (i believe the max possible, or close to it) and this is what i wanted to practice since i am sure if i chaingrab someone at a tourny they will DI lol.
but after u-throwing them, i see they are DI-ing far right so i run right, and do a JC grab, but i almost always miss. would a running grab that isn't jump canceled give extra range, or is it the same range as a JC grab? i'm pretty sure it is the latter which would mean i have to improve my reflexes lol but i just wanted to make sure.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

JC is more range about for everyone but sheik who is best with the boost grab if I,m right. running is slower, more lag, less range. BUT MAYBe MAYBE understand I said MAY a boost grab could make pikachu's range A LITTLE bit longer because isn't the boost grab basically turning the dash attack hitbox into the grab hitbox? to do so run press A then Z a frame later same timing as the JC grab if that helps.

But that's one reason why I won't even touch pikachu his and nesses unGodly pitful grab that aren't easy to set up pichu can set-up better plus more range and better throws(other than B-throw and pummel witch they are tryed for the best in the game)

 

[TresChikon]

i know practicing chaingrabbbing against CPUs is dumb since most of the time they won't DI/barely DI.

Training mode with them set on running away. They will full DI in both directions. I just find it hard to grab them at first, I'm so noob.

You just won't be able to practice with slight DI, which is tricky sometimes.

 

[LAX_]

@ICG
thanks for the response. i was under the impression that only fox/falco could "cancel" their dash attack by doing a dash attack then hitting z when appropriate. so wait it works for pika too?

@TresChikon
that's really smart. i'll try that tomorrow thanks

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

everyone can I,ve only heard of sheik getting something out of it (I suck so bad at spelling your going to have to figure this one out it's like TH with an O and I think it has like 4 letters) Sorry I never got hooked on phoiex. Hey you could tech chase with d-throw not as good as pichu's but it works.

 

[TresChikon]

Boost grabs suck and will never benefit Pikachu and it hardly even helps Sheik. JC grabs are quicker, but have less range, it starts on frame 7 while dash grabs start around frame 11, but have more range.

You'd want to dash grab when they DI hard away, while JC for softer Di.

Boosts grabs are really laggy, and even a dash grab is better than a boost one. The only benefit is using it with the Marios who yell "Yahoo!" during a dash attack.

Against people who react upon this sound, you can trick them by boost grabbing instead, That's it pretty much.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

won't the boost grab help the grab a lot?

 

[TresChikon]

The range is is hardly better than a JC with Pika, but you take on so much ending lag. Not all characters receive more range (well not a reasonable amount), maybe just Sheik, but who cares about Sheik.

If you want range, play Marth.

Although, it's also known as some '03 or something AT called grunt grabbing which confuses people with the dash grunt.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey man I,m an ice climber main what do I want? grabs grabs grabs. I loves them so much nearly as much as I do down-smash.

 

[TresChikon]

I have no idea about the IC's, but Pika's DA isn't very long so it doesn't work out. He just lunges forward...and lays there...

Maybe you experiment with IC's I dunno how much it would help them.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dashing grabs generally have more range, but they're slower, and the jump cancel grab range is comparable because of the slide.

Which you want to use varies from character to character. Peach's dash grab is actually faster than her jump cancel grab, in terms of startup time. Sheik and Ice Climbers have equal times, if I recall correctly. Not sure about Sheik.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

when I was talking about the ice climbers I was thinking about range the longer the grabs the better I like talking about grabs you know pikachu and pichu are tried fo rthe best pummel in the game comes out on frame 3 and has 2 extra frames of hitstun.

 

[TresChikon]

Well perhaps they gain significant range, they do jump forward a lot during their DA. I don't know I have no info on IC's.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

It really doesn't matter which way you grab as the ice climbers But I just JC to cut off some ending lag.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Jump cancel grab as Ice Climbers is one frame slower, I believe.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

no I made sure there is no differece maybe by some kindof little bit of range for JCed but really nothing uber important. But again it isn't really important so yeah. Harray I made my little brother have a mental break down. he keeps yelling you said your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say your hugles, then I say your hugles then you say your huegles then I say your huegles, then you say.

He said he had a serious break down and he has been running around yelling this for like 10 minutes. I was so slick and it was amazing.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

*sigh* When I say "I believe" I don't mean "I pulled this out of my ***".

Grab

Total: 30
Grab: 7-8
-------------------------------------
Running Grab

Total: 40
Grab: 7-8

Jump cancel grab is one frame slower.

 

[AXE 09]

when i chain grab fast fallers with pika, i ALWAYS JC grab. whenever i try to just dash grab, i always miss. i feel that the JC grab is a lot better because (even if it might have a little less range) the grab comes out faster. i have no idea about what frames they come out on, but i know that a JC grab comes out faster than a dash grab. if you wanna chaingrab fast fallers, i definately recommend running JC grabs if they DI.

also, with full DI, it's very hard to Chaingrab them starting at 0%. i usually get a little bit of damage on them, maybe at least to 15%, then i can chaingrab guaranteed.

just saying, you have to take into account how fast the grab comes out, not the range of the grab.



on another note.... i didn't think it was recorded, but i guess somebody took out their camera and recorded it =O me vs SS lol. it's in bad quality though, so i dunno if it's worth watching, but if anyone wants to see it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JnXMlJfzCQ match 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxVQt1NmaGs&NR=1 match 2

i played 3 matches with him, but i guess the 3rd one wasn't recorded. i ended up winning the 3rd one somehow lol. anyways, more vids should be uploaded this week. i'll let you guys know when they come out =)

 

[LAX_]

Alright thanks for the answer.
i've been practicing JC grabs against a fox using that training mode technique thing and so far i've gotten a lot better at them
i saw those vids already (think i commented ) and MAN they were epic. Good stuff AXE! i'm really looking forward to the rest of them.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

****, Axe, good stuff @_@

 

[TresChikon]

Yeh Pika's dash grab is def slower, it's around 11 frames ish. Same with most other chars.