Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[A2ZOMG]

You actually can't Bucket Brake if you have a full Bucket. You'll just die if you try to waste your full Bucket anyway.

Just...well, have good DI. And use that Bucket as soon as possible.

 

[BadKarma]

Well I'm glad I learned that now and not later lol. Would fair be the next fastest areal to use?

 

[-Ominous-]

You can check the frame data thread. I believe that U-air comes out the fastest actually. We just use N-air becuase it has less frames and we can bring out the bucket quicker.

 

[mustard g&w]

U-air does come out the fastest. It has 1-5 frames of startup. N-air has 1-6 frames of startup according to Mr. Escalators frame data.

I would say use U-air if your bucket is full.

Also would D-air be a good option if you were hit vertically since it auto-fast falls?

 

[UTDZac]

If you have an empty bucket use:

nair -> bucket

If you have a full bucket use:

nair -> UpB

That's what I do. UpB doesn't help nearly as much as Bucket. Sometimes I see myself die right after using the UpB, but it's better than jumping i think.

 

[BadKarma]

hhmm I never knew up B could work like that, I'll have to give it a try thanks.

 

[PentaSalia]

Im pretty sure Nair is better for BB.


I Uair to BB vertically by habit though lol. Both are very similar,slight difference in time.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Hey guys, got a quick question. Two questions actually.

What are Game and Watch's best options if he Shields the first hit of MK's shuttleloop? You know, MK hits G and W's shield with the first part of the shuttle loop, then G and W jumps up and punishes....What are his best options?

Second, if Game and Watch powershields MK's glide attack, what attacks can he get off on MK? I think Dsmash is too slow, and I tried testing jab, but powershield --> jab doesn't really lead into anything.

Any advice on how to punish these 2 moves from MK would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Shield first hit of Shuttle Loop -> N-air is pretty good. It will usually beat the Glide Attack from what I recall.

Just try to grab if you powershield MK's Glide Attack. Grabbing MK is really good since G&W's options for punishing MK when he's put in a disadvantaged position are pretty good.

 

[UTDZac]

If you shield the first hit, you can usually uair the MK. This puts MK in a very bad situation, as you can keep him suspended in the air and punish him when he lands. Smashes and Judgment are great punishing options, but are a little tricky sometimes to pull off.

If you power shield the glide-attack you can either grab or UpB. The spacing for grab is obvious, only when MK is close. If MK is still a good distance above the ground when he hits your shield, you can actually UpB Out-of-Shield and pull him up into the air helpless. You should be able to land and punish with a smash.

 

[BadKarma]

what are some good ways to use up tilt and forward tilt? I can't seem to find a good way to use them without getting punished for them.

 

[FrozenHobo]

on heavies you can utilt (x2+) -> nair on heavy/large characters. i mostly use ftilt as a fast, fair knockback attack, generally to help with chains. of the two, utilt is the better move since it hits in a mini-arch above/in front of G&W. ftilt is something that should generally be used sparingly, or as a way to mix things up when in close...

but thats just my opinion, i'm sure there are other things i'm missing.

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

On some large characters you can Dthrow to Utilt.

Also i use Ftilt when the opponent is on the edge and getting up onto stage.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I anti-air with U-tilt when I need KOs. It's a good situational KO move that can frametrap airdodges. Good on midweights at around 140ish, heavies will probably get KOed by it more like around 165. You can also pretty much always combo first hit N-air -> U-tilt.

Shield Wolf's F-smash -> U-tilt juggle him

D-throw -> F-tilt is underused. It combos on all characters who miss a tech, and can be used for KOs.

 

[UTDZac]

I use ftilt ONLY when I want to dsmash but I know it won't come out fast enough.

Dsmash comes out frame 15.
Ftilt comes out frame 10.

Ftilt is generally bad because it has a huge amount of cooldown lag.

 

[GTZ]

yeah, the ftilt is pretty punishable

 

[BadKarma]

What is the best/your favorite way to approach d3? I always get grabbed when I use turtle. I have to mind games my way in close but is there a better way?

 

[GTZ]

hmm, DDD's I play vary... sometimes I approach with a well-spaced Turtle.. Breat in mind that if your spacing is off, (from my experiences), you get grabbed a lot easier.. I usually Try to hit DDD on the 2nd to last hit with the very end of the turtle's head.. there are other ways too.. theres always getting him caught in a Utilt combo, paired with the fishbowl.. (platforms make this fun.. example battlefield).. there is also the bacon, aka the projectile aka chef... use your arial Ua to throw the DDD off balance mentally... but the key to approach from my tournament experience is accuracy and spacing.... G&W can have a bit of speed advantage here too... catch him off guard with some good smashes too.. oh and use the pseudo chaingrab if you can pull it off... another good thing..

another good thing to do is send out a single bacon, and bait him... punish when needed, or if he gets hit, close in and dthrow in for a nice combo... there are plenty of dthrow combos...

 

[PentaSalia]

a mixture of sh nair(most reliable) sh bair(not so much) and full hop bairs(don't get predictable) depending on what they're doing.You have to know how to space them so that you won't get grabbed if they shield it and you can still upB safely.Also you can land a SH fair/nair if you powershield their ftilt/or anything in fact...lol.This is all on the ground. In the air just nair/uair/ubp and Fair more. If they try to fair or bair, just predict and punish DDD is easy, somewhat lol


edit: Bacon is also good in this MU occasionally.

 

[super beans]

sh nair is ur best friends in this match up ._.

 

[GTZ]

yeah, pretty much what I said previously... well spaced bairs and nairs - bacon is good ALL THE TIME (if cooked correctly). You could always use THE JUDGEMENT!!

 

[AyatoK26]

I have D3 problems myself and the advice you guys gave out helps. Thanks.

 

[PantyRaider08]

I am having some trouble with snake lately... Any fresh tips on the mu? It's 50/50 with me I either get ***** or do well against him. If anyone could help it would be much appreciated.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The easiest way to win against Snake is to camp on a lead.

But anyhow if you're engaging with him, generally the matchup goes like this. He's grenade camping, you decide whether he's going to grenade shield or throw out tilts. Grab if he does the first, space B-air/fullhop F-air if he does the latter. Edgeguard and juggle where applicable.

Even though his tilts are better than yours, your D-tilt is still REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD against him. It can harmlessly clash with his tilts or be used to punish them. And the idea with D-tilt is that if you get him offstage with it, you basically have a guaranteed edgeguard on him if he does not opt to use C4 to recover.

D-throwing him is also actually really good, just most people I think do it wrong and don't realize how good some of their options are. The two options you want to focus on when D-throwing him are Dash Attack and D-tilt. Dash Attack at low and moderate percents sets up juggles and does nice damage, and it's the best way to punish Snakes who tech in place attempting to U-tilt you (Smashes are too slow). D-tilt as stated is great for getting him offstage.

 

[Splice]

You can be aggressive with Nair too

Nair can hit Snake without hitting the grenade he is holding (unless he is facing away from you) and this can be very helpful and can set up strings.

And A2ZOMG, it's all well and good that you think Dthrow is still useful and can set up strings, but you should still stress that Uthrow is still very useful especially if you aren't near the edges and therefore both are acceptable choices.

Fair is good against Snake too.

I also need some help with this MU but I think it's more practice than theory-work so I just need to get practice.

But can anyone tell me some moves that clash with Utilt or can beat Utilt and also how to DI his Nair and Dair?

 

[UTDZac]

Best way to beat snake:

Space Bair/Nair, UpB a lot, Time those smashes to beat his airdodges/landing attacks, UpB a lot more, don't try and grab, Toy with him with Uair, UpB even more.

 

[PentaSalia]

PlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlankPlank

edit: to be more helpful._.
Upb alot and be quick with it to escape and to occasionally hit snake when he's in the air.Uair and space Nair alot. Careful about how you bair, you can get grabbed out of it lol. When you're behind,which is likely to happen, staaaay patient,let the kill come to you,srly T-T.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Almost every Snake I've seen relies on the ledge attack a LOT. I just thought I would point out. I mean Snake's ledge attack is one of his best getup options anyway just since its animation is very non-telegraphed.

But if he ledge attacks your shield, you can literally Up-smash him out of shield. Drop shield Judgement, F-smash, and D-smash also work.

But can anyone tell me some moves that clash with Utilt or can beat Utilt and also how to DI his Nair and Dair?

Tilts, F-smash, and Dash Attack clash with U-tilt. Usually G&W's best move for beating U-tilt directly is D-air, so outspacing it with your mobility is usually better.

N-air is simple. Smash DI up like hell, then D-air him.

D-air is the same as N-air if you're in the air when he does it, otherwise I think you're supposed to Smash DI to the sides. Away or towards him is a matter of preference.

 

[UTDZac]

Almost every Snake I've seen relies on the ledge attack a LOT. I just thought I would point out. I mean Snake's ledge attack is one of his best getup options anyway just since its animation is very non-telegraphed.

But if he ledge attacks your shield, you can literally Up-smash him out of shield. Drop shield Judgement, F-smash, and D-smash also work.

This does not work. I have tested it and was unable to upsmash out-of-shield. The snake shielded my attack, wasn't even a powershield.

But can anyone tell me some moves that clash with Utilt or can beat Utilt and also how to DI his Nair and Dair?

Tilts, F-smash, and Dash Attack clash with U-tilt. Usually G&W's best move for beating U-tilt directly is D-air, so outspacing it with your mobility is usually better.

N-air is simple. Smash DI up like hell, then D-air him.

D-air is the same as N-air if you're in the air when he does it, otherwise I think you're supposed to Smash DI to the sides. Away or towards him is a matter of preference.

Beating Snake's Utilt is nearly impossible. Fsmash doesn't reach far enough, Dtilt doesn't reach far enough. Dash attack is a horrible idea (if you miss you lose a stock).

Dair is also a bad idea. It's possible to get it to work, but chances are snake will be able to trade his Utilt with your Dair, which means your dead. Trust me when I say snake's utilt beats your dair and just dont do it.

The BEST option for beating snake's utilt is Bair (then UpB afterwards for safety). I've played against Ultimaterazer and he straight up told me he hated how my character was so safe; hates how I can just bair then UpB and by pass his utilt.

Generally speaking, if you think snake is going to utilt you, you can bair him (aim to only hit with the nose of the turtle) and you won't get it.

EDIT: here are some links of decently recent vids of Me vs Razer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJsgsu4Ok5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ0NuYKpAio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYBz3U2dxZc

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Simple Question
UTD, why is your GW so sexy?
I watched you play Razer at QuakeCon/Phase 12, and I feel like it helped me immensely in that MU.
Also, how do you recommend beating Marth? Do you just space well and UpB a lot?

 

[UTDZac]

I don't really know how to beat Marth, besides spacing. I don't have any Marth experience.

I've got some videso from Hobo 28 (last weekend) of me vs MikeHaze in teams. Those might help:

WF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lxEEVOebvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTYQHKvKNrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJEAygmWqwY

GF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkbCyzlRcFo - Game 1 = Rafe, but I sded =(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N0T2b20rgc

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't like relying on math to prove you wrong, but I checked the Snake frame data.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258332&highlight=frame+data


Ledge Attack(under 100%)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/976...ttackquick.gif
Invincibility Frames begin at frame - 1
Duration - 21
Base Damage: - 8/6
Hitbox comes out at frame – All 24
Total frames - 56

Ledge Attack(over 100%)
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3...attackslow.gif
Invincibility Frames begin at frame - 1
Duration - 43
Base Damage: - 10/9/8
Hitbox comes out at frame – All 41
Total frames - 70

The shieldstun formula is basically damage divided by 3. So the formula for frame disadvantage on block is total duration - first hitbox frame - shieldstun. <100% ledge attack has 2 frames of shieldstun or so. >100% ledge attack has 3 frames of shieldstun. Assuming you round down iirc.

G&W's Up-smash hits on frame 24. Perfectly timed out of shield, there is no shield drop lag. F-smash out of shield is 24 frames. D-smash out of shield is 22 frames. Powershielding is irrelevant if you're Up-smashing out of shield since shieldstun still occurs on powershield.

Snakes <100% ledge attack is -30 on block
Snakes >100% ledge attack is -26 on block

Basically in short, my math AND my personal experience in this matchup (my friend Crackle is a legit Snake main, I could just bring him here and have him vouch for me that it works) are both contradictory with what you're suggesting. I think you just aren't timing it correctly. If I saw a video of what you did, I would be able to confirm whether or not you timed it correctly.

Hell, I've Up-smashed out of shield with LUCAS against ledge attacks. His Up-smash is frame 28.

 

[UTDZac]

Hmm maybe what I was doing wrong was dropping shield and then up smashing. Btw, I NEVER smash using Control Stick + A. I always use C-stick.

For reference, while holding shield:

Press C-Stick Left/Right = Roll
Press C-Stick Down = Spotdodge
Press C-Stick Up = Grab

Guess I'll have to learn how to UpSmash OoS =/

When I said "powershield" I didn't mean that I powershielded the snakes attack. I meant the snake powershielded my upsmash (which didn't happen, it was just a normal shield). Confusion T.T

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

We can buffer upsmash OoS just like Oli mains. Joyous day!

I'll take a look at those vids. I was hoping you'd had experience with RoyR.

 

[UTDZac]

I tested UpSmash out-of-shield (Control stick + A) and I was able to hit snake out of his get-up attack.

Sorry A2Z, twas my bad. Who knew only using C Stick was bad for you. I'm going to have to practice this now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hmm maybe what I was doing wrong was dropping shield and then up smashing. Btw, I NEVER smash using Control Stick + A. I always use C-stick.

For reference, while holding shield:

Press C-Stick Left/Right = Roll
Press C-Stick Down = Spotdodge
Press C-Stick Up = Grab

Guess I'll have to learn how to UpSmash OoS =/

I tested UpSmash out-of-shield (Control stick + A) and I was able to hit snake out of his get-up attack.

Sorry A2Z, twas my bad. Who knew only using C Stick was bad for you. I'm going to have to practice this now.

hahahaha. Alternatively just D-smashing out of shield is great too. Easier to time for that matter, and kills about like...10% later than Up-smash.

The other way to Up-smash out of shield is holding Up on the control stick all the way, and inputting Jump+Attack.

However if you hold the control stick lightly upwards and do Jump+Attack, you can buffer a frame perfect U-air out of shield.

I abuse the **** out of U-smash out of shield with everyone though. It's SUCH A FUN MECHANIC!

When I said "powershield" I didn't mean that I powershielded the snakes attack. I meant the snake powershielded my upsmash (which didn't happen, it was just a normal shield). Confusion T.T

oic. Regardless...

 

[PantyRaider08]

Thanks a ton for all the help guys. I have just been in a slump vs. snake and these tips will help a lot. And I need to watch more vids of you Zac. : )

P.S. Thanks for the uploading the vids against Denti, Zac.

 

[Kaffei]

What are some ways to fight MK
How do I tech the down throw of GW
if Im getting sucked by tornado, can i UP B any time

 

[Blobby]

I think this is the right thread to ask this...

Does anyone know what in the world just happened or is lvl9 cpus really impossible???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR8N504iYAE&feature=related

 

[Mr. Escalator]

At a certain point in Marth's SideB, any change in his momentum will send him flying. The best way to test this out for yourself is performing it on a treadmill; you'll see similar results.

The windbox from G&W's upB was the treadmill, in this scenario.