Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[Blobby]

Ohhh okay thanks :D

 

[Splice]

So Uair onstage if Marth does this on a platform would also work?

Had no idea O_O

 

[Cinnanmonny]

hao do I beat sheik on wifi?
Quit wifi?

 

[overgamer]

hao do I beat sheik on wifi?
Quit wifi?

Lol Wifi never been serious business.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Beating Sheik in general is simply about learning to never jump unless it's absolutely necessary, and you know that your B-air is well spaced. Then you basically play footsies with her using your solid Jab and D-tilt to make sure she isn't allowed to do anything reckless, and then you do this until you're in a position to juggle and edgeguard her.

Let me stress that it's extremely important to never jump unnecessarily against Sheik. She has some of the best anti-air options in the game by far, and generally jumping is too easy for her to punish.

 

[Z1GMA]

Sheik is so dumb at WIFI.

She can spam anything and get away with it.

 

[Today]

Unggg. Bair is such a bad move vs. Sheik. Don't do it.

A Sheik that knows the GnW matchup will be extremely campy and use a lot, and I mean a lot of Needles.

You have to be smart about playing Sheik and bait her needles. Your goal is to get in her face, because once you're in her face she can't do much about it.

I honestly hate this matchup. And I think it's slightly in her favor. Because GnW has to find ways to get in and he has to avoid getting hurt by needles but at the same time avoiding getting hurt by her shenanigans.
Try not to be in the air if you are at high percents because it'll lead to dsmash, don't fear playing "ghey" against her (it's probably best if you have the lead.) She can easily wrack damage while you're on stage. Watch out for upb, too. You may think it's punishable but it's not!

 

[A2ZOMG]

B-air is GOOD against Sheik, but you have to make sure she's cornered first. It's only bad to B-air when she has room to run away, which gives her retardedly good anti-air options like B reverse needle and retreat -> Dash attack/dashgrab. If it's actually connecting on her, then it's safe.

And I've been supporting forever that Sheik is probably the most underrated character in the game. Besides getting chaingrabbed by the ICs and Pikachu a little too easily, she competes very very well with the top tier.

 

[overgamer]

God, I hate how Shiek can do crazy stuff out of Ftilts. Broken!

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

What moves should be used to freshen other moves? I mean, I can't really think of kill moves that'd stale quickly and leave him with no options, but in the off chance that the most practical one for the character/situation does stale, what should be used to freshen it without putting G&W in horrible danger?

 

[A2ZOMG]

U-air is good for refreshing other moves since the windbox is super safe to do in juggle situations. However U-air as a vertical KO move is in fact underused. If your opponent is on a platform at KO percents, it's worth trying to platform push them into the 2nd hit of U-air for KOs.

D-throw and techchasing is also good for refreshing moves. It's pretty easy to safely techchase into Dash Attack on most characters. Against people who don't tech, D-throw -> Jab -> Regrab does a LOT to refresh stale moves. Assuming you pummel once before throws, grab -> pummel -> D-throw -> Jab -> grab -> pummel -> throw sequence will count as at minimmum five separate attacks for stale moves.

Generally speaking, G&W's tilts are also underused. Even his D-tilt is underused, and when you consider how powerful it is for putting people offstage, it's a move you should strongly consider when you're setting up KOs. U-tilt for KOs is also pretty good especially since it's good at frametrapping airdodges.

 

[someonerandom]

Umm how do I break the habit of airdodging to cancel momentum? When I go flying, I immediately react by pressing the B button because I play with only wii-mote. I mean, if you immediately react instead of having to think about pressing another button, won't the time it takes to react to press another button equal out the time it takes for Nair to finish?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Bucket Braking is muscle memory. You DI, you make sure you're not pressing a direction after that, and then you N-air, and then you Bucket.

Play against some CPUs. When they hit you, just be in the habit of N-airing. Then when you apply in in a real match, you should do it instinctively.

 

[Splice]

Yeah just practice enough so you don't have to think about it.
Should just happen.
Get out of bad habits like airdodging all together.

basically

Practice.

 

[someonerandom]

Thanks for the help. Usually after I air dodge, I try to bucket but most of the time I already die.

 

[Blubolouis]

So a friend of mine plays G&W and although I now have a nice MU experience (with both ike, my main, and pit, my secondary), I still have a lot of trouble when I'm getting hit by... BAIR

yeah that move, I know everyone says it sucks, "just SDI and punish lol" but I STILL can't get around it whenever I'm hit. 2 main points I need help about

1)If my shield is intact, I can just get away but have trouble punishing it. If not, I still don't know how to PS that annoying last hit (I watched a video about it but I don't find it anymore >.>)

2) when I'm hit while just above the ground... He makes sure I don't get hit by the last hitbox that sends upwards, and does a smash. And I get hit like 50% of the time. How is that possible? My characters don't have sex kicks or anything, I can't just break through that ***
o_o how to avoid it? Do I have to suck it up and give up on punishing it instantly?

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you're close, shieldgrab.

When getting hit and in doubt, SDI and jump out.

3 frame Jabs can punish the last hit oos if you're in range and do it frame perfect.

Generally the best way to deal with G&W is to poke him in between his spacing with faster moves before he starts up other moves.

 

[overgamer]

The thing is, Bair can be a pain if you dont have quick react moves. If you're shielding, you can actually buffer a fast shield drop jab/grab/tilt just before the last hit of the turtle pokes your shield if the move is badly spaced and if your move comes out fast enough in terms of frames.

If the Bair is properly spaced, you can usually roll backwards safely, and try to mix up to mess with the next follow up. Or I don't really know, I usually try to avoid the next hits.

There's also some examples here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYfunwOt9FU

If you get hit while airborn, just do as A2ZOMG said, usually you can SDI-up, or diagonally, it works well for avoiding multi hits, and counter react with a fast aerial.

 

[Lifes]

So a friend of mine plays G&W

If somebody is always SDI the Bair and then attack, Is there a way to avoid this?

 

[overgamer]

If somebody is always SDI the Bair and then attack, Is there a way to avoid this?

Full hop Bair is generally more safe, but not always effective. Also you really need to pay attention to spacing correctly to avoid SDI follow-ups. If you space properly, you should be safe.

 

[Blubolouis]

@Lifes> XD je pensais à DuelerX mais... ca s'applique à toi aussi >:D

@overgamer, A2ZOMG>ok so react instantly with the fastest option or just don't insist and get away asap. I'll do that, thansks!

And about DuelerX, you've played him overgamer, right? What do you think about him?

 

[overgamer]

@Lifes> XD je pensais à DuelerX mais... ca s'applique à toi aussi >:D

@overgamer, A2ZOMG>ok so react instantly with the fastest option or just don't insist and get away asap. I'll do that, thansks!

And about DuelerX, you've played him overgamer, right? What do you think about him?

Il a un G&W plutot solide, je dirait qu'il tente des truc assez risqué parfois, mais il y arrive bien. Il a un peu le syndrome du Dair mais bon, rien de bien méchant. On a pas beaucoup jouer de G&W ditto, c'est un match-up que je maitrise pas trop, bien qu'il soit assez hilarant. On a jouer plein de perso random aussi.

Son Ganon est sympa aussi, auto-cancel (shenanigans!!!) que j'avais jamais fait attention sont assez bourrin, il m'a mindgame des smash que je m'y attendait pas.

Sinon en temps que personne, je dirait qu'il est excellent cuisinier, et très sympatique, et toujours disponible, donc il est tout simplement génial.

---------------

Edit: to english people, feel free to post in this topic, huh?!

 

[Exegguter]

Uhm Does anyone know how to slide with your bucket for like a loooong time? if not... I think i found something, I need someone to help me record it though D=

 

[A2ZOMG]

If it's B-boosting off platforms/edges, it's not new.

 

[moyshe]

I guess my thread was ignored, has g&w become any less useless in the last 7 months?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I shared my G&W tricks with Oki at WGF. So yeah, his G&W should be improving in some ways.

And yes, I completely ignored your thread. I didn't see the point in it anyway.

 

[moyshe]

glad to see I was missed.

 

[Makke]

......................

 

[Splice]

The bucket slide is nothing new.

But if you are interested, Exeggutor, It works with Bacon and Judgement too, giving Bacon a moving hitbox and giving you some surprise Judgement capability. Some GaWs have started matches doing the sliding judgement off platforms you start on and getting 9's, it can work a tiny bit, wears out fast.

It's pretty useless with Bucket though. You have use the attack the same frame or within a few frames of when you leave the platform, iirc.

 

[-LzR-]

Baconslide wavebounce off the ledge and you can go under SV

 

[Exegguter]

I knew it was nothing new xD just asking any1 to confirm cause I never see any1 use it matches, (it's useless anyway so yeah...)


Edit: it's Exeggut--->E<---r *emo*

 

[Splice]

It's not useless. I use it with bacon a fair bit. When I remember, I do forget about it from time to time.

Why wouldnt you want to be named after THIS ?

Exeggutor is awesome, you should be honoured!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

could one of you post the link to the g&w vs diddy mu summary for me? thx

 

[Grey Belnades]

could one of you post the link to the g&w vs diddy mu summary for me? thx

Here's the old match-up thread. A Diddy summary should be there. Do note however that this is an old match-up and current match-ups are being rediscussed.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174763

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I have a question. I picked up last year and he ended up replacing my main since 08 . I really enjoy playing him because he's defensive and simple in a sense. I really enjoy taking simple tools and using them in different ways. I actually started placing better with him overall compared to Snake. And then I started thinking about Game and Watch. I need a secondary that can help me deal with Falco, Olimar, Ice Climbers respectively. I guess Pikachu is a bad MU for Dedede but I really excel at that one. I have played with him before and find him enjoyable. Based on what I have told you guys do you think it would be worth looking into Game and Watch?

I also just find it funny that I can tech chase with him also *points at name*

 

[Splice]

lots of people here will probably tell you GaW doesnt counter the three characters you mentioned very well. He does counter Pikachu of course.

But I'd say with GaW it may be worth it because the Olimar MU and ICs MU are better for GaW than D3, I think both are at least 55:45 GaWs favour, imo its 60:40 vs Olimar.

But I dont think GaW counters Falco :/ the Bucket isnt that effective here btw.

I personally think it'd be worth using GaW for you, GaW doesn't get destroyed by Falco,it's like 60:40 at worst. Better than D3 at least!
GaW is considered to lose to IC's last I heard but it's totally accomplishable and imo it's GaWs favour on most stages.
GaW should be a good counter for Olimar
GaW will also counter Pikachu if you ever change your mind on the MU with D3

Do you need any help with anything?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Well I am not completely unfamiliar with Game and Watch. I have used him in the past to CP PIkachus and to prevent myself from being "gayed" by dynamic stage picks when I was a Snake main.

My biggest issue in tournament in Olimar right now. Just this weekend I lost to a skilled one. D3 vs Olimar is soooo stupid. I mean I've come close to taking down good Olimars but the work is not worth it at all. So having a solid Olimar counter would be great. I am not afraid to take on matchups that are "40-60 or 45-55" I am used to having to very careful and put in a lot of work. Ideally I just want to find a simple character that gives me a fighting chance against those problem MUs I can't seem to crack as D3 (and trust me I've tried...)

As far as what I need help with its simple. I just need to find ways to make the "linear" moveset GW has stretch farther and to know my options with him. Most of that comes with experience but I do know there is a directory here that can tell me more. I mean if you had any general advice you wanted to give me that will help me get past the walls that most people encounter when trying to be better than your average GW that would be great.

Also if you know anything about vs Oli or Falco that would be cool lol.

I guess the one question I should ask is: What sorts of habits do beginning (I'm kind of not a beginning one but let's pretend I am) GW players do that they need break?

Also thank you for taking the time out to reply.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How to be better than the "average" G&W user:

1. Use fullhop F-airs! This simple trick instantly will make your G&W 9001x better. I promise you.
2. Use D-air to edgeguard. Learn how slowfalling works. It's simple. Inputting a fastfall while falling with D-air actually makes you fall slower since G&W's fastfall is slower than his D-air fall speed.
3. Jab -> Grab. It amazes me how much this doesn't get used. I have to facepalm at myself when I forget to do this.

Tips against Olimar:
1. D-throw -> F-smash is completely legit if he doesn't tech. Olimar always wants to DI towards center stage to avoid getting gimped by D-throw D-smash. Abuse this, and blast him away with F-smash instead when you need that kill.
2. B-air and N-air **** his whistle armor
3. N-air and D-tilt are good vs Pikmin toss
4. Be good at techchasing and juggling him in general.
5. Jab -> grab
6. Getting him offstage with D-tilt *****.

Hope that helps.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Thank you for those tips. And I know a great deal about tech chasing and characters' tech rolls from my other characters. And Jab-Grab is so good I agree. Hmm I think I could get into this character. There are a lot of traits GW has that I am comfortable with/ look for.

 

[Splice]

That sounds great TC, I think GaW is a good choice in that case! I know how some MUs can be with D3, I've dabbled in some D3. Apart from Snake it's not very pretty against high tiers lol.

General Tips:
1. If you ever get way out of your depth in pressure, use UpB OoS. This is safe, and if GaW uses an airial out of the parachute animation he can use another jump if you want, for mindgames afterwards. UpB OoS has many uses though. Not so much vs Olimar except it might be the fastest way to get out of the way of incoming grab.
2. Nair OoS is also great, Nair is great. Use lots of Nair for juggling and try to fastfall it if you think people will airdodge through it, as it will catch them.
3. Use A2's 3 general tips but realise he overestimates Fair a bit too much It's still alright, I wouldnt bother with it on Olimar though tbh, to risky compared to other options also he short.
4. Don't roll ever haha
5. Space Bairs with the TIP, just the mouth of the turtle should hit. Don't move far into them with Bair, unless you are super confident it'll sheild poke and they wont SDI. because with SDI it's dangerously punishable.

Against Olimar:
Abuse platforms and stay airial, Dtilt however is very good against Olimar and can hit him on ridiculous angles that are a cinch to edgehog. If you tilt up slightly on the control stick while on the edge, if Olimar hits you with UpB you will move up and not get spiked, eeeesy.

Nair juggles are so hard to get past for Olimar if you do it appropriately and FF appropriately. Abuse your mobility. Nair also would appear to be the best bet for dispatching 90% of the Pikmin that land on you.

If Olimar hits your sheild with an airial, you can try Nair OoS or Uair OoS depending on spacing. If you can get those Uairs to put him in the air, you can start a nice juggle.

Approaching diagonally is the best way to approach with Bair if you are approaching with Bair.

Everything A2 said was also legit.

Ice Climbers

Bair is great, stay on platforms, Dont try too hard for a punish; the risk of getting grabbed is never worth it. Get damage on Nana, she is easier to kill and once Popo is alone its very easy, you might not even get hit lol. Planking IC's is a legit tactic, they cant do much, most of the time you can Nair them before they get to you anyway, so all they can do is shoot icicles. I wouldnt plank if you dont need to though.

Sour spot Fair is great offstage, it just halts their recovery, and they go lower. Unless they are at high percents and Sweetspot Fair would kill, lol.

Desynch bli22ard can be hard to deal with. Someone explained a good way to deal with this recently, I just mix it up or avoid and be super campy if im winning, just campy and bait mistakes if i have % lead.

Falco:
Slightly a disadvantage, we still get CGd, the bucket is most often not worth it and Usmash kills us pretty early but Falco's Usmash has nothing on Fox, praise the lord. I should say I don't know this MU, there are no good Falcos in Australia anymore. I beat all the people when they use Falco but no-one is good with Falco here and Im definitely doing many things wrong.

I know that the lasers can make you go more aggressive then you should. They really dont do much damage so dont let them mess up your mindset too much.

Again, staying on platforms and in the air can be good, but you're ground game definitely CAN be used in this MU at least.

UpB OoS is useful here.
Nair OoS is useful here.

You can catch falcos sideB with Nair to start a juggle, you can also Fsmash it.

To edgehog Falco Dtilt is pretty efficient if you dont really know what you are doing. If you get good reads on how he will get up (which is easy vs Falco) you should get a fair bit of damage before you let them on stage.

And A2s Full hop Fair is pretty ok in this MU, imo.

I feel bad about how large this post is and how useless it probably is, sorry TC! Good luck!