Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[A2ZOMG]

Crouch powershielding is very important in that matchup imo, but if you don't know how to do it, don't bother. You want to be able to muscle in some Jabs and D-tilts in this matchup to put a stop to his zoning and put the match in your control.

You have to edgeguard him a little differently than most characters. Watching what he does is important. If he throws a bomb, catching it gives you an opportunity to get close to him offstage. D-air edgeguarding isn't as good in this matchup if he saves his double jump to U-air you (usually will trade hits in this situation). Boomerang can be hit through. If the opportunity to hit him with D-tilt comes up, go for it.

It's possible to spotdodge his grab after B-airing his shield iirc.

 

[super beans]

How the heck do I deal with Toon Link. I just can't win...

power shiled his projectiles and punish him.

down tilt cancles his arrows and rang i think

~ Beans

 

[Cinnanmonny]

How the heck do I deal with Toon Link. I just can't win...

everybody tells me that #1 priority is to focus on avoiding his projectiles...
but iono I haven't played the MU much

 

[Mister Eric]

No one's got anything to help me out with? =[
<3

 

[iamjason8]

Just to clarify, Oil Panic attack (when he throws the bucket) isn't a projectile right? Its just an attack with an insane hitbox and crazy range?

EDIT:

everybody tells me that #1 priority is to focus on avoiding his projectiles...
but iono I haven't played the MU much

Even though this is a terrible example since it extremely one-sided (imo anyway) and outdated, you may find it helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwql5_hFn34

This was recorded a few months ago but (I'm Gyko btw) but I played the same guy two weeks ago and the outcome was still in my favor. 3-0'd him. FD, SV, FD. I either won with a two stock victory or low percentage one stock victory. I'm only assuming you're roughly our level (no offense).

Here are some things I noticed that helped me a lot.

~Yes avoid his projectiles. You're light weight and you may find U-Smash/U-Tilt killing you at around 110%. I'm always caught off guard so I forget to Bucket Brake. But that's not the only reason why. His projectiles are what give people trouble against him. You can actually play mid-distance and avoid them by air-dodging into the ground and then shielding. I just prefer to powershield them. Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

~Learn to Bucket Brake. Just because, haha!

~Apply as much pressure you can whether its aerial or shield. That's the easiest way to beat Tink. Chsal complained: "Aerials are all sex kicks, they come out super fast, so strong". So take advantage of them.

~Space grounded F-Airs if you use them at all. I misused them a lot that game by screwing up my RARs lol.

~Use U-Air to space yourself from his D-Air.

~His U-Air beats your D-Air.

~Try not to "accidentally" stall-then-fall your D-Air because his U-Smash will end up ****** you. Well it ***** me anyway.

~GaW's D-Smash and N-Air are super! Just use them at the right times.

~D-Tilt and I think F-Air and F-tilt can cancel out Boomerangs and spaced Arrows and Bombs. (Not sure about the latter two in both cases since I don't pay THAT much attention)

So that's my two cents. Hope this helps! ^^

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Yup. Oil Panic is most definitely not a projectile. The sure-tell is that G&W suffers hitlag during the move; If it were a projectile, G&W would not lag when he hits an opponent or their shield. Oil Panic would look like ZSS' Dsmash if it were a projectile, pretty much.

 

[EraOfGames]

Hey, where I can find information on how to fight a match up? I checked the MU thread but all I see is ratio's..
Want to use GNW as a MK counter

 

[kaak]

Hey, where I can find information on how to fight a match up? I checked the MU thread but all I see is ratio's..
Want to use GNW as a MK counter

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244153

here =) but gaw is not good to counter MK it's 65-35 in mk favor imo!

 

[Mr. Escalator]

G&W is a pretty good step up against MK from Jigglypuff, however! That is, assuming that's the reason you want to pocket G&W. He's a fairly easy transition from Jiggs (the opposite applies too since my Jigglypuff is actually solid), and the matchup he has vs MK is better than the puffball's.

The ratio for us is usually argued around 6:4-65:35. I tend to agree with the former, but neither are necessarily wrong; they both state he's tough unless you are on your game.

 

[EraOfGames]

Thanks for answering guys. : D
Might see me around if I stick with Gnw, I like him so far.

 

[NatP]

Hey guys, I've a little issue with G&W about the Dair slowing down thingy. How EXACTLY do you do it? I can do it but not consistently. Any tips?

 

[Kofu]

Press down after you initiate the DAir.

 

[NatP]

Yes, that's what I already do. But it doesn't work all the time. I'm just asking what's it exact timing and stuff.

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

Usually when i see that little flash that happens when Dair comes out i press down.

At the end of the flash.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

You have to press down when your momentum changes; basically when you would start plunging down, you press down to "fastfall" the move. G&W's fastfall is way slower than the plunging Dair so you press down to initiate a fastfall which resets his momentum. Which is why, basically, we all call it Slowfalling his Dair (which can be confusing).

 

[PentaSalia]

use cstick,it's alot easier

practice it in training mode for 5min or so and ull have it down=)

alot of G&W's tricks don't take too long to master but people don't take the time to sit down and practice it for like 10min at most lol. People don't think he's the type of character you practice with in training mode D:. HE'S JUST AS HARD AS ANY OTHER CHARACTER D=.

 

[Cinnanmonny]

I practice in training mode with G&W why r i not pr0
and why can I still not glide toss >:o

 

[FrozenHobo]

i've been trying to figure out some kind of useful application for frying pan. so far i've seen it used as a pseudo "wall" to hurt recoveries/limit air approaches. i've also been using pivoted single flips as a way to boost away from an opponent. i'm just curious if other people have applied it to other situations/uses. i've been watching people using gws other attacks effectively, but it feels forced every time i see the frying pan come out (which makes sense since its not exactly an amazing move).

 

[UTDZac]

One match not too long ago I got a boosted frying pan off the ledge -> Judgment combo. It was a totally unnecessary edgegaurd, but awesome nonetheless. Will be in my next combo vid =)

With a lot of character's get-up attacks (while they are over 100%) you can shield, drop shield, then frying pan to push them back off stage.

 

[FrozenHobo]

hm. would it work on every character? it seems like some characters would be able to avoid it (pretty sure lucario can move right after his hitbox comes out).

 

[PentaSalia]

nvm,ignore this lol

 

[PantyRaider08]

How do you use Up-B, and cancel into aerials without item tossing?

 

[UTDZac]

Just buffer. If you pick up an item when an attack and, beforethe attack ends, buffer another move then you won throw the banana at all. Just keep buffering.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Chef is best in edgetrapping. Space it so that the furthest reaching hit is able to harass your opponent if they are edgestalling. It's also pretty useful against characters like Donkey Kong, DDD, and Ike, who have very limited options for getting past it once it starts up. Chef also starts combos pretty well, so if it hits your opponent, which it probably will if they get caught in the middle of a storm of bacon, you can go for a grab, F-air, or even a Smash.

B reverse Chef is actually useful as a spacing tactic against people who are expecting you to approach with B-air, and I think it's generally a tactic that needs to be used more. And it can be used like any other B reversal for getting out of juggles.

I practice in training mode with G&W why r i not pr0
and why can I still not glide toss >:o

The timing for G&W's glidetoss is weird. You have to delay a split second before hitting the C stick. You can't just mash it immediately. Unless I'm mistaken, I heard G&W has a 1 frame window to execute a glidetoss out of his roll.

 

[PentaSalia]

I've never seen ANYONE use reversal,i just simply forget about stuff like that when im in a match lol

and ya,i can only do glidetoss every once in a while=(


Zac seems like he can do it all the time lol

Spoiler

banana phone

 

[A2ZOMG]

Btw more ppl should use glidetoss -> grab against Diddy. Myself included. =P

 

[derkapalooza]

does anyone have any tips in the zss and sonic matchups? what works and what doesnt in your guys opinions.

(i wish the old MU thread was still up lol)

 

[A2ZOMG]

ZSS is really weird. But you can't get reckless vs her. Most of the time shielding (especially powershielding) is one of the best options against her since her grab isn't very threatening due to its risk. Learning to powershield her SideB and NeutralB helps. You can punish most of her other ground moves on block pretty easily as well (specifically Dash Attack and U-tilt). I would recommend learning how to edgeguard her, which is something I personally don't know how to do right yet.

And vs Sonic basically wait a lot and never approach him outright unless he's cornered towards the ledge or if you can edgeguard/juggle him. DI towards him when he U-throws to get out of range of his U-air. Wait out his smashes and B-air whenever he throws them out, don't spotdodge or roll recklessly. Make sure to punish him severely if he needs to recover low.

 

[derkapalooza]

yea its really hard to play against zss sometimes, she combos so well lol. i know that if she does throw a dash atk at you, a simple jab will stop her in her tracks. a jab if timed correctly can also cancel out a non charged paralyze shot. i get a little nervous when trying to approach the zs player i play against cause being both in front of her and above her isnt good. so when i approach i attack at a 45% angle with my b-air and it seems to work. if i can find a way to edgegaurd her too that would be great! lol.

ive never had to fight against a sonic thats good, but the opportunity might come up soon so thanks for the tips.

oh! also any tips on DI'ing out of marths DB properly?

 

[A2ZOMG]

You can SDI in two directions. You can either try to get above and behind him (D-air or perhaps U-air him if you do this successfully), or you can just SDI away from him. The former is better if you have it mastered, since Marth's Dancing Blade like the rest of his sword strikes does less damage up close, and of course getting any opportunity to punish Marth is useful. Shielding it in its entirety is better when possible of course. Honestly though I'm not very consistent at getting out of Dancing Blade myself.

 

[Splice]

I actually think the best place to be against ZSS is withing SideB range. Your airials have a bit of a better range then hers, so if you space well and pressure ZSS, you will be in a better position, and she can't really do this back to you. I'd rather be above a MK than above ZSS though. Her airials are quite good and 2 of them kill real good. GaWs ground game actually does him some favours in this matchup, Dtilt and Dash Attack can be useful. Also I find ZSS is one of the characters that ***** Key harder than others. Always watch out for that grounded UpB, dont ever approach her directly vertical, diagonal is best.

Sonic is easy, A2ZOMGs advice should be enough even if it isn't spot on. Play defensively, let the match take a long time, juggle sonic when he stuffs up, punish him severely everytime he recovers from a bad position = win.

Also Marths DancingBlade is so hard to get out of lol. It's one of the only moves I still can't SDI.

 

[Enzo]

I need help with bair tactics

 

[AyatoK26]

Quick question: Does B-air always force a hard landing on aerial characters? What are the best follow-ups if such a thing happens?

 

[Kofu]

BAir is a spacing/punishing tool, not an approach as a general rule. You can use after you dodge an opponent's move. Fast Falling it isn't a bad idea, since it has little landing lag and a landing hitbox. It's not bad as an edgeguard either.

Define Hard Landing, please.

 

[Splice]

Quick question: Does B-air always force a hard landing on aerial characters? What are the best follow-ups if such a thing happens?

I think I understand what you mean...

In which case a good follow up would be Pivot-Grab.

 

[AyatoK26]

Define Hard Landing, please.

Sorry. Bad word choice.

What I mean is that when the aerial opponent close is hit by b-air but not the ending frames with knockback. So the opponent is still stunned from it while the move finishes which allows for follow-ups. It has to be FF to work, assuming no DI.

Can that work most/all of the time? It happened for me once so I'm not sure if it does consistently, if at all.

 

[Splice]

Well if they end up on the ground when you finish the Bair and there is no knockback but they still have a bit of hitstun, Pivot-Grab works pretty well.

 

[tibs7]

Lol GnW

oh hai Billy!

 

[Splice]

Hi Tibor.

Don't lol at GnW!
Just coz I haven't beaten you for like 3 months or so :C

I'll beat you again one day

 

[PantyRaider08]

What is the best way to mash out of grabs?