Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[J4pu]

And I'm just saying that if you kept playing as gay as you possible could we would be reaching n00b level. And we all know n00b level gets punished. So playing more gay is not the answer to everything. What the correct answer is that you need to play in a way that is just on the border. Enough that all your antics reach there mark, but not punished. But not so much that your antics get punished. That is what I was getting at.

when someone says play as gay as possible it doesn't mean to do it in a predictable/nooblike manner, rather it means to abuse situations where you can do damage but cant be done damage to more often. For some characters it isn't called "gay" but all characters advise doing this, it's just called gay for falco since falco's "unpunishable" option is spamming a projectile, it's called gay for MK when it's abusing his offstage advantage by planking, etc.

that being said, it is highly unlikely that you could spam lasers (and IAP) against a pro MK for 8 minutes and end up with a lead, so you do indeed have to take advantage of Falco's more damage dealing/string set-ups, but why not do it at a time when what they are expecting from you is more "spam." This is my understanding of the meaning of "be moar gay", be just "gay" enough that that's all they expect from you, then punish when their expectations lead them to give you an opening.

putting up with lasers and IAP spam is frustrating (for most characters), people who are frustrated tend to play less safe/intelligently, take advantage.

 

[Jon?]

In order to be really good in Brawl, you'll have to play "moar gay." It's just the mechanics of the game.

 

[gopobox]

You can do it by jumping forward and wavebouncing a reverse double laser, then hold the control stick backwards to move back.

You can only wave bounce with b sticking the c stick?

Well all you have to do is the backwards jump where falco starts doing a flip and then at the peak you have to tap the direction in which you are going to shoot and then you do the double laser.

 

[Jon?]

There is no b-sticking required for Falco's laser wave bounce. I can do it consistently without a b-stick, I just have it down to muscle memory.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I never use b-stick, I just learn how to do the bsticking tricks normally.

But yeah Jon's right you can do it w/o wavebouncing, though I think you will retreat farther with the wavebounce.

 

[DLA]

Cool, thanks for the answers.

 

[J4pu]

moving backwards while lasering can be done by 3 methods:

-SH backflipping > forward lasers (requires undoing a b-reversal by tapping "forward" before shooting if you are trying to do DL)
-dashing away > SH > b-reversed lasers (not wavebounced, just tap "forward" before shooting the lasers)
-dashing away > SH > wavebounced lasers (press b then immediately press "forwards")

~same as 2nd method= dash away > RAR > SH > lasers

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

In order to be really good in Brawl, you'll have to play "moar gay." It's just the mechanics of the game.

And you have to be able to counter it. I am still learning that :/ Peach's Dair I am finding is very hard to counter when she is already right above your head.

Which brings me to a question finally. Which OoS function do you think is best? Bair, or Nair? Bair I am thinking because it actually will give the opponent decent knockback in the event you both get hit by each other's attacks. If you use Nair, you'll just give them little knockback most of the time while you will go pretty far.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

The best way to counter peaches dair is nair oos, at least it works as zelda afaik. as anyone you can pretend its tornado, tilt your shield up and roll away when you see the chance.

and yeah i like bair oos the most, not just for its knockback but also for its range.

 

[Denzi]

~same as 2nd method= dash away > (i forget the term for it but) turn around while dashing same as for the forward facing Bair > SH > lasers

Reverse Aerial Rush?

 

[J4pu]

Reverse Aerial Rush?

that's the one

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The best way to counter peaches dair is nair oos, at least it works as zelda afaik. as anyone you can pretend its tornado, tilt your shield up and roll away when you see the chance.

and yeah i like bair oos the most, not just for its knockback but also for its range.

Peaches have told me that rolling is one of the more poor options people can use. Because Peach can cancel the float at anytime, she just has to read your roll when you do it, cancel -> FF and then punish your roll. However, I have yet to see a peach who can do it consistently.

 

[Jon?]

I counter peaches dair with a roll. I have yet seen someone be able to read it let alone cancel the float and punish me for it. As long as you don't get caught in her aerials and grabs, you should have the match. Peach can't do anything against lasers and good spacing.

Regarding OOS options in general, I usually go for a shield grab. In other situations:
-I go for an OOS dair to rack up damage since it can easily set up a string of hits.
-I go for an OOS Bair if the opponent is in the air behind or directly above me

I've never been a fan of OOS fair. In what situations and/or matchups do you guys use OOS fair? (this is my question)

 

[clowsui]

if your shield is being daired just roll back or angle shield forward...

if she hasn't initiated the dair yet then just do bair oos or usmash oos

 

[swordsaint]

imo, never use fair, useless crap ^_^

a mix of back air oos (she's sort of behind you, could be looking for a crossup when the float time expires)
nair oos is she starts to retreat a bit or she's semi-high, since peach relies a bit on using different float heights
up smash on high %'s only, keep it fresh *****es, also it doesnt really string
shield/dash attack if she falls in front depending on whether its an aerial fall or an airdodge to the ground

honestly though, laser more to cut her jumps, restrict her somewhat predictable air movement

punish her ground crapness, space well (even with semi-laggy attacks for lag bait) and just jab her, her grab range is short and oftentimes peaches run in for the grab since really it's one of the only good things on falco (cg, ironic ;-; )

and dont forget to upskirt her.

 

[AGENT-DOUBLE-D]

i have much trouble fighting game and watch... he basically a high mid weight due to bucket breaking, broken smashes kill falco at like 80% and bair is just a pain, and no lazer camping beacuse of the bucket... hes hard to CG if not impossible past 25% or even earlier... and most of his arials out prioritize everything... like wtf how can i win?

 

[gopobox]

I have like next to none experience against gaw but ill give you some tips...

Use lasers sparingly, i mean like use it from close-mid range because if you use laser from far away, gaw will expect it and bucket the laser... and also even if gaw buckets the laser from close-mid range, there is a bit of lag on it so you can punish it. Also you can use laser more when gaw is on higher percentages, because he would want to keep his bucket empty so he can bucket brake so he can live longer. As for CG im not really sure, If you buffer your running CG correctly, im pretty sure you can CG him, if not follow it up with like a dair or usmash whatever. As for smashes try shielding as much as you can rather than spot dodging because fsmash lasts longer than a spot dodge and you got the gay gaw usmash which is slow and if you don't time your spot dodge properly then you'll get screwd over. For bair, just shield it then punish with an oos bair or something.. What the gaw player might do is make the edge of the turtle (the turtle's head) hit you so that he's spaced better if he does that you might want to dash attack maybe? Watch out for gaw's grabs because his dthrow can be followed up with a dsmash and i think its a true combo.

 

[J4pu]

walking CG is better than running CG, you just gotta make sure you time it well.
jab combo is good, ftilt is good,
if turtle is mispaced you can punish before the landing hitbox, if it is spaced well then spotdodge the last hit (for when you shield the turtle)
SDI when being hit by the turtle

lots of empty SH with a few strategical SHL's thrown in (it will turn them around if they are trying to bair)
always tech roll his dthrow
don't get stuck above GW without your 2nd jump (preferably not even with your 2nd jump)

GW's only quick ground attack is dtilt, and although it is really good, it's not as good as Falco's ground game

use lasers wisely:
only SHL, never DL
bait the bucket with mid-shortrange lasers when GW is either in CG percent or in kill percent
never shoot lasers towards GW when he has 2 already absorbed, unless it is to bait bucket when GW is in kill percent for his final stock.

 

[Jon?]

I think the G&W is fairly easy. I haven't fought against any G&W's that have given me lots of trouble. Just space well and don't get caught in his Bairs. If you find yourself in a position where you think you'll get baired, simply roll away.

SHL from mid range distances and if he buckets, run up and punish. The ending lag on bucket is very noticable. In my opinion, I could care less if the G&W has a full bucket. It makes it easier to kill him since he can't bucket break. A bucket filled with laser will kill Falco at around 100%.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Agree with Jon? on most part, I don't the gdubbs is that bad for Falco. Although I have to say a bucket of lasers will kill Falco at 60% not 100%.

The thing and G&W is that he really should have a hard time killing you. As long as you play smart and not run/phantasm into his Smashes he shouldnt really be killing you that early. You can see dair coming from a mile away and you generally avoid being under him anyways. Fair is prob his best killing move and it doesn't kill at that high damage.

G&W's bucket has a MASSIVE end lag if he absorbs something (from G&W frame data thread: After the first/second charge is collected it takes 72 frames to shield). So if you learn the long version of Falco DACUS you can punish him from at least half the length of FD with a SHL/SHDL to DACUS.

As for chaingrabbing I find walking chaingrab to be better, you can do up to 36% with the chaingrab and follow up with a dair. There is also a laser lock combo Falco has on G&W, but he can get out of it if he is mashing upb.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Harass GW with lasers and phantasm/jab mixups [Up close].
And camp and pivot grab from a far. Also stay away from GW near the edge and in the air.

And don't let him Dair your shield, its pretty safe.

Learn to tech his D-throw. It has 53[Thanks Clowsui] beeps before launch.

Common Situation:

Falco: Jab Combo then...
GW: Up into dair. If he retreats without Dairing just Nair him or camp XD.

What should you do?
Move away and laser to jab or dash attack.


Thats all I know.


Edit: some players have jesus reflexes, so for GW's down throw I do this: DI Left then tech to the right or the opposite.

 

[clowsui]

bleachigo it's 3 beeps

mix up tech with di'ing behind gw by holding back during the throw. you should mostly tech though

 

[AGENT-DOUBLE-D]

thx for the advice peeps

 

[Tin Man]

when would I want to use a walking CG over a running one, isn't the running one always better/effective, and why?

 

[Denzi]

when would I want to use a walking CG over a running one, isn't the running one always better/effective, and why?

Always use walking over running when possible, it eliminates any chance of tripping.

 

[Tin Man]

alright got it, thank you, i'll start practicing/using it.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

You can grab quicker with walking, plus you travel less distance so you can get more throws in b4 you reach the ledge. And on char like Snake and MK Walking is better because theres less/no window for them to escape.










EDIT: Oh **** I meant to save this post for a special ocasion.... oh well.
<------------------


I dedicate this post to Syx because 666 is his favorite number. XD

 

[Hawks go Caw]

I play a pretty good G&W whenever I get the chance and this is what I've learned:

-Key usually beats out Uair. Not worth trying to Uair him while he's above you.
-If you expect him to UpB after the CG then just jump on the trampoline with him and hit him with lasers or nair or Fair or something.
-Despite the bucket, you can still harass G&W with lasers more than you think because they'll either a.) get rid of it soon so he can bucket brake b.) accidentally oil spill while trying to bucket brake. I mean really, G&W doesn't need the bucket to kill Falco at all, so a full bucket isn't half as valuable as bucket braking.
-Don't fight him off stage unless he's very high. Otherwise just wait.
-Learn to tech the Dthrow. It's right when he gets to the other hand.
-Learn to mix up the tech otherwise you'll get a nice tech chase to helmet to the face.
-Don't recover onto the stage.

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8V2vkGOUKI
im not great, but i play pretty ****ing campy

basically shdl at long distance, shl at mid range, mostly empty short hops when they are within range to pressure you.
when they get close range AAA or spaced ftilt to reset spacing a little
and IAP when you wont get punished

Wow. That's almost exactly like how I want to play.

 

[Denzi]

Is it possible to DI back and tech so we end up standing behind him?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Ye s

 

[Denzi]

Ye s

And you're sure you wouldn't just tech roll?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Oh yeah hadn't thought about that, you got me there, then I dont know, lol

 

[J4pu]

Wow. That's almost exactly like how I want to play.

Thanks

Spoiler

I think

Lasers are much less effective against short characters/characters that don't like being in the air, which is part of why the match-up is a ***** for samus

 

[gopobox]

Thanks

Spoiler

I think

Lasers are much less effective against short characters/characters that don't like being in the air, which is part of why the match-up is a ***** for samus

What about Marfz o_O

I got a question with wave bouncing without b stick...
Like I can't get the wave bounce effect like something like wavebounce lasers after walljumping...

Can someone explain thoroughly how to do it?
I can get the wave bounce effect with snake though... (sometimes..)

 

[swordsaint]

just be super fast

 

[SHDL]

Can someone explain thoroughly how to do it?
I can get the wave bounce effect with snake though... (sometimes..)

just do like you would with snake

-wavebouncing requires you to input the left/right direction shortly after pressing B
-breversals require you to input left/right direction shortly before pressing B
-sideb requires you to input left/right direction + pressing B at the same time.
-if you just laser, you aren't inputting the left/right direction in a time frame close enough to when you press B

try it a few times, see what above you are getting, and adjust your timing

 

[lucha5]

Okay i been trying to get really good with falco (cause hes my favor char). But i just cant seem to get the hang with(like i do with my snake).First thing is camping. i can shl i'll still havnt masterd shdl(I think maybe my hands are too slow idk). and on wifi i can barely shl. and If somebody gets close to me
I

panic and phantasm after the or two they either shield me and depends on char punish. or grab me before i can,

I know my job as falco is to limit there approach but im failing at that. then killing them. I can get them at high %'s like 130+ but espically those snakes and occasionaly mk. I can get impatient and try to dacus or fsmash, Phantasm air- cancel to setup bair or something. and I mess up I get owned myself.

I really wanna get good with falco( and main him ).But just having trouble

 

[Jon?]

Abuse your close quarters combat more. Use jabs, grabs, and f-tilt when they get too close. Keep your laser camping steady and go in when you see an opening.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Thanks

Spoiler

I think

Lasers are much less effective against short characters/characters that don't like being in the air, which is part of why the match-up is a ***** for samus

It was a compliment. I liked your style of campiness, I'd just prefer to be a bit more aggressive in general. Watching that and paying attention to the lasers/camping made me realize a few things:
1. My SHDL sucks.
2. Retreating lasers (I never use them)

 

[J4pu]

What about Marfz o_O

Marth eats quite a few lasers, not like samus but way more than say olimar