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[pure_awesome]

The only characters that can use this are Fox, Falco, and maybe Pika, Zelda, or Lucario. Everyone else's recovery is either too unpredictable/inconsistent to be able to get the frame-perfect timing, or simply doesn't put them in a position where this is even an option.

I got it to work a bunch more times, I'm getting pretty good at it. It's ******. I survived MK's fresh dsmash at like 200% or something while recovering.

Falco still has a bad recovery, this just... helps.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Does this work with moves that hit you up? like Olimar Upsmash or Snake uptilt?

 

[WingBr]

What is the best way to DI/SDI out of falco's jab? Is there any way taht make him open to an atack?

 

[J4pu]

I still see it as a high risk--low reward sort of a thing. But meh.

risking getting killed in exchange for possibly getting a kill yourself sounds more like high risk- high reward to me, hell if they're at low percents tech in place> grab

if this could be mastered brawl would be broken and nobody would ever get killed

No, you have to be in the air for this to work, if you are standing on the ground and a single hitbox hits you, you can't do anything. This is why Falco's aerial phantasm is so great for this, you can be incredibly close to the ground so you don't have to sDI very far and the game counts you as being in the air

this should be able to work just fine on moves that hit you up, you might just have a harder time sDI'ing into the ground.

 

[clowsui]

brawl is actually a lot more interesting when people manipulate their options for survival

the metagame hasn't even caught up to anywhere NEAR the full potential of survival DI

spacing can afford to be a little less tight once people consistently begin to predict situations where they get hit with KO moves and just SDI them. there are things that are impossible to sdi on reaction but given the proper time you can do it - DMG was largely describing this in other places on this forum. once you expect crap like fox's USmash + Sheik's USmash it's possible to prepare your sdi so that you di sheik tipper into side hits for maximum survival and you di fox's usmash into the ground for a tech.

 

[J4pu]

fox's usmash is a single hit box isn't it? How can you SDI tech into a surface you are already standing on, I thought that didn't work.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

risking getting killed in exchange for possibly getting a kill yourself sounds more like high risk- high reward to me, hell if they're at low percents tech in place> grab
.

I just don't like high risk anything

Even though I could try to wall jump -> bair on BF, I would rather not.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I just don't like high risk anything

Even though I could try to wall jump -> bair on BF, I would rather not.

i do that all the time, high risk is the way to go, since it can catch ppl off guard. like with snake sometimes I c4 myself knowing it will kill me because my opponent whos trying to kill me will get caught in the blast and die as well.

 

[J4pu]

like with snake sometimes I c4 myself knowing it will kill me because my opponent whos trying to kill me will get caught in the blast and die as well.

that's not high risk, that's high cost.
the goal of high risk situations is to not suffer the cost, you're purposely doing the oppositte in this scenario

 

[Sph34r]

that's not high risk, that's high cost.
the goal of high risk situations is to not suffer the cost, you're purposely doing the oppositte in this scenario

Actually, that's not high cost either. It's high cost AND risk. You risk just killing yourself for no reason.

Had to say it

 

[J4pu]

nice catch

Spoiler

**** your cognitive abilities

 

[Yumewomiteru]

So everyone knows that DDD can powershield a SHL or SHDL and grab us on landing. And also that Falco can empty shorthop and punish the shield drop lag.

So I'm just wondering if Dedede buffers a powershield grab and instead does a normal shieldgrab, we would still get grabbed the same way right?

So is there a good reason to empty shorthop against Dedede?

 

[J4pu]

So everyone knows that DDD can powershield a SHL or SHDL and grab us on landing. And also that Falco can empty shorthop and punish the shield drop lag.

So I'm just wondering if Dedede buffers a powershield grab and instead does a normal shieldgrab, we would still get grabbed the same way right?

So is there a good reason to empty shorthop against Dedede?

Silent laser has +3 frame advantage (i think)
I'm not sure what that translates to on a perfect shield but I don't imagine a grab is actually guaranteed, you should at least be able to spot dodge or jab, if not ftilt before the grab hitbox comes out.

 

[dainbramage]

Laser has 5 frames of shieldstun (maybe 1-2 frames shieldlag + 3-4 frames shieldstun?) against a normal shield, falco has landing lag of 2 frames (4 if FF'd). On the other hand, I don't know the precise mechanics behind powershielding (other than a general idea of much less knockback and the shielder can act earlier somehow).

I've seen posts saying that all the powershield does is reduce knockback and the shield drop time, in which case we still have a 3 frame advantage. I also don't know if said posts are correct.


One thing people also rarely mention is that the laser travels a short distance before hitting, which means in practise the frame advantage will be greater.





With recovery - obviously don't take a hit and try to SDI it if you can reach the ledge safely. It's when there's the risk of the ledge being hogged that you want to do this. In which case it's a case of either:

1) go for the ledge and risk being hogged (death).
2) go for the stage and risk being hit out of it, then try to SDI and tech the hit (not death if you tech)

If the opponent chooses wrong then you're just as well off (better really, as you're on the stage rather than the ledge). If he chooses correctly then you're better off.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

I tested the SDI into stage tech thing out and its pretty cool.

However i cant imagine many situations to use it in. How many characters use a smash attack with horizontal trajectory to punish Falcos recovery? MK Lucario and maybe wario come to mind but thats it.

Marth would Upsmash/Jab/Uptilt, Snake would uptilt, DDD would uptilt, Diddy would throw a nana, GW would upsmash, etc...........

 

[Denzi]

Peach would use moves with semi horizontal knockback (Fair, turnips, Nair, etc.).

 

[Gmoney_]

With recovery - obviously don't take a hit and try to SDI it if you can reach the ledge safely. It's when there's the risk of the ledge being hogged that you want to do this. In which case it's a case of either:

1) go for the ledge and risk being hogged (death).
2) go for the stage and risk being hit out of it, then try to SDI and tech the hit (not death if you tech)
3) go for the stage and do a side b cancel to grab the edge
If the opponent chooses wrong then you're just as well off (better really, as you're on the stage rather than the ledge). If he chooses correctly then you're better off.

fixed it

 

[Yumewomiteru]

cuz side b cancel is so easy, its not hard and i get it more than half the time, but i don't want to bet my stock on being frame perfect.

And your forgetting about firebird, thats a recovery move as much as phantasm is.

 

[J4pu]

you should be able to SDI upward hitting attacks too, that was where GOD DI was first discovered iirc.

You forget the if the opponent is standing near the edge and you use firebird, you are asking to lose a stock, even if they mistakenly try to edgehog a phantasm they should be able to ledge-drop > DJ > gimp before the firebird gets you anywhere safely

phantasm cancelling isnt that hard but you're right, you don't want to chance your stock on it.

the main reason i thought this was amazing was because if they use a semi laggy move, or hell they just don't expect you to sdi tech, you can get a hit of your own off, which i only think would be worth it if they are at kill or CG percent, but that's a fairly large amount of reasonable times to do it on purpose. Of course you would need to have it down really well.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

I'm having trouble getting the Reverse Boost Pivot Grab in a CG. I can to it the left easily but I'm having trouble doing the pivot grab part to the right. I'm pressing "Dash right, tap C-stick left and grab" at the same time but I just keep getting a dash attack or a f-smash. Can anyone toss some pointers on making this a bit easier?

 

[J4pu]

never use cstick to the side for a DA, always tap it down
and it looks like you're forgetting the reverse part of the boost pivot grab it's:
tap astick right
tap cstick down
tap astick left and grab

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

This is weird I'm actually having more trouble doing this by tapping the C-stick down lol Though I do understand why you say that.

*five minutes later after forgetting to post*

Omg big difference lol Thanks now I just gotta perfect it. Is this a good tech to use outside the CG?

 

[dainbramage]

fixed it

Meh, that comes under going for the ledge.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

Man I can't stop my thumb from flicking up on the C-stick after hitting it down and hitting the grab button. Too much Mortarsliding with my main. That's why I kept flicking the C-stick to the side because my first instinct is to do a Boost Smash when I do it the other way. Man this seems impossible now when. I try it the correct way......-_-

 

[Yumewomiteru]

You just gotta keep on practicing, I always flick the cstick down and up if im going for a gatling combo, i just learned to not do that when i do dacus or bpg.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Hey falco mains, I was wondering if you could tell me how well Falco does on Battlefield.
Good - Neutral - Bad?

 

[Chaosgriffin]

Sorry for the double post but I have another question, if the timing for the gatling combo and the boost smash different?

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

I'll keep going at it. I just need to somehow ignore my habit of going for a Gatling/Slide motion. The timing on this hard regardless. I really want to learn this so I can add to my Falco as well as my Fox since they both use this technique. I just hope I can get this down. Thanks though I'm gonna get back to practicing.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

you should be able to SDI upward hitting attacks too, that was where GOD DI was first discovered iirc.

Wow.

Someone should try it with Snakes Uptilt.

Phantasming into Snakes uptilt at 200% but surviving due to SDI tech. Lol

 

[pure_awesome]

I can't get it to work with Snake's Utilt, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. It SHOULD work. Of course, I suck at SDI so that's prolly got something to do with it. I've tried...

Smash the Control and C-Stick straight down over and over while mashing R.

Holding the Control Stick to the side to alter Falco's trajectory diagonally, then c-sticking into the ground for the tech.


Is this right? Can anyone shed some light on God DI for me?

 

[Seagull Joe]

So I learned boost pivot grabbing, Iap, RAR lasers, SHDL lasers, single lagless lasers and double, phantasm cancel, and the gatling combo. I also learned doop walking, but for Falco it isn't too useful. Lol. Any other ats Falco has?

 

[Denzi]

Hey falco mains, I was wondering if you could tell me how well Falco does on Battlefield.
Good - Neutral - Bad?

The general agreement is good. Some like it more than others.

Sorry for the double post but I have another question, if the timing for the gatling combo and the boost smash different?

Yes, Boost Smash requires faster inputs.

So I learned boost pivot grabbing, Iap, RAR lasers, SHDL lasers, single lagless lasers and double, phantasm cancel, and the gatling combo. I also learned doop walking, but for Falco it isn't too useful. Lol. Any other ats Falco has?

Not really. Ledge hop double lasers maybe?

 

[J4pu]

I can't get it to work with Snake's Utilt, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. It SHOULD work. Of course, I suck at SDI so that's prolly got something to do with it. I've tried...

Smash the Control and C-Stick straight down over and over while mashing R.

Holding the Control Stick to the side to alter Falco's trajectory diagonally, then c-sticking into the ground for the tech.


Is this right? Can anyone shed some light on God DI for me?

try qcDI (quarter circle DI) with the astick and just slamming down with the cstick > R/L

iirc you don't even need to tech to survive, you just need to hit the ground, but then you end up laying there in a bad position if you don't tech so it's better if you can.

The less hitlag an attack has the harder it will be to do this, the first GOD DI video I remember seeing was from Lucas' Usmash which has hella hitlag so I'm sure it's possible, just a lot harder with less.

 

[Julio_TFP]

When is Falco´s wavebouncing useful?

 

[swordsaint]

Never?
lol
I haven't seen a real reason to use them

 

[Yumewomiteru]

When is Falco´s wavebouncing useful?

RAR Wavebounce silent laser to upsmash is sexy.
And I generally find wavebouncing lasers easier to do than reverse lasers so usually when you would reverse laser I wavebounce it.
Also I sometimes do it offstage to get farther away from the stage to mix up recovering.


edit: at seagull man, learn running reverse upsmash, its a good way to get kills off spotdodgers, and upsmash OOS.

Also learn walljump recoveries like walljump bair, walljump phantasm, walljump pivot lasers.

 

[Denzi]

The less hitlag an attack has the harder it will be to do this, the first GOD DI video I remember seeing was from Lucas' Usmash which has hella hitlag so I'm sure it's possible, just a lot harder with less.

But the GOD DI idea is jumping, then DI + Tech. Since we're already in the air, it might be easier.

 

[clowsui]

screw olimar

that's all i have to say

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Sooo..... Anyone know of any good recently matches on youtube involving pro Falcos like Larry and SK?

 

[BleachigoZX]

screw olimar

that's all i have to say

QFT and Truth!



@The guy who wanted AT's:

Look up the Community Falco guide I think we have most of the AT's their.