Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Vlade]

What a shame Anyway it works. IRC was good while it lasted ^_^

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The Reverse Boost Pivot Grab (we need a consistant name so everyone knows what we're refering to )....COLOR]

I don't really see why the reverse is in there. It seems kind of pointless to add it in when Boost Pivot Grab describes it well enough. You boost a bit into your pivot grab, enough said.

 

[Teran]

Yeah, BPG, makes life easier!

 

[Denzi]

Much easier!

(and it's actually what I was considering)

 

[Conviction]

Would a good sub for the CG>spike be SH Fair?

You CG'd them to the edge they're expecting the spike and will be trying to DI to the stage, so Fair would be perfect right?

And what is Falco best aerial for momentum cancelling? (Uair?)

 

[Denzi]

Would a good sub for the CG>spike be SH Fair?

You CG'd them to the edge they're expecting the spike and will be trying to DI to the stage, so Fair would be perfect right?

And what is Falco best aerial for momentum cancelling? (Uair?)

Fair, not really. If you're expecting them to SDI towards the stage, just don't do anything.

I believe Bair > Dair > Uair > Fair for moumentum canceling. I'm pretty sure Nair falls in after Uair (because you have to start your FF a little later), but I'm not sure.

 

[Conviction]

well here what move doesn't last the longest Fair and Nair are out of the picture. Momentum cancelling is based off of which ends the fastest to regain momentum right?

 

[Louisdebou]

Nair (just FF after) isn't the best aerial for momentum cancelling ?

 

[Darxmarth23]

I like U-air for this. And B-air too.

 

[Denzi]

Yeah, I'm definately going to stick with Bair for horizontal knockback and Dair for vertical.

 

[Vorguen]

Okay out of curiosity, I see Falco's using their lasers to get U-smashes for the kill. Do they an advancing SH laser then Boost U-Smash?

That seems ridiculously hard to pull off...

 

[Louisdebou]

SHL > Boost U-Smash is a very good way to kill but if you're in a short range, you don't need to boost your smash.
Dthrow > Boost U-Smash is an other very good way to kill but don't spam it or you will get shieldgrabed.

 

[Vorguen]

Okay Dthrow to Boost U-smash seems a lot easier to do but a SHL to Boost U-Smash seems ridiculous.

Don't you need to be dashing for the Boost smash to work? How could you pull that off from a SH even?

 

[Vlade]

You buffer a dash for like a split second after the short hop then input the boost smash.

Dthrow > boost smash isn't nearly as practical.

 

[Vorguen]

What exactly does "buffer a dash" mean? Like initiate a dash attack?

Why would the D-throw boost smash be harder, you have a second to dash before you boost towards him.

Does that mean to input it before your SH is finished so it does it as soon as you land? Kind of like a move Queue?

 

[Vlade]

To buffer means to actually input the move before it it can be initiated. For example, when you SHDL you press B twice. The first laser is when u press B, but the laser after that is a buffered one.

The D-throw boost smash isn't harder, it's less practical. It means it isn't as effective (since the opponent can just air dodge).

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Just wondering. I know people always dair after a cg when at the edge, but what about on certain stages like delfino plaza or caslte siege where some areas just walk off with no pit, what are some good options out of the CG to hit them horiztonally off screen?

For me I always ended with a dash buffered forward smash to connect with the strong it. Although I hardly ever use it on human players (like virtually never). So I do not know if that can be avoided or not?.

 

[pure_awesome]

When you say Dash, buffered Fsmash, do you mean dash forward, then when Falco finishes his dash, Fsmash? If so, then yeah, it won't land on most human players.

Falco's best, consistent option for horizontal distance after the chaingrab appears to be shorthop Fair.

...
...
...

what the hell? Fair?

 

[Vlade]

I saw in those falco dittos between Sethlon and SK92 they did a few fsmashes after the dthrow if they couldn't chaingrab, but I don't know if that's decisive enough to convince me to use it.

Fair ftl

 

[pure_awesome]

Falcos will sometimes Fsmash at the end of chaingrab because many players DI towards Falco to try for the footstool. In this case, they DI into the strong part of the Fsmash. It's useful to throw out and it's quick enough that it should land. It's just that usually, the weak part hits. If you're looking for knockback, use Fair. (Only use it if you think it will KO them. You don't want your opponent alive while Falco is in Fair lag.)

I don't think I've ever seen either Seth or SK dash first, but I'll look around a bit and get back to you.


I can't believe I just told someone to use Fair.

 

[ftl]

Can the Fair be SDI'd?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

No I do not mean dash attack to foward smash. I mean from the CG you walk forward a bit than forward smash. If you do not walk forward a bit you will sourspot the fsmash. Although even with that I was wondering with jumping airdodgin, DI one might escape that.

 

[Denzi]

How about Boost Pivot Grab Bthrow?

 

[pure_awesome]

Yes, Fair can be SDI'd out of. Certain characters (Metaknight, Diddy, etc.) can actually hit Falco while he's hitting them with Fair. Like he's hitting them with Fair, and they just... hit him back, in the middle of it. It's a terrible move. We're going for surprise factor here . Who expects Falco to use Fair?

Yes, people can avoid the Fsmash at the end of the chaingrab. Put a level 9 on "Stop" in training mode have a friend mash airdodge and try it, you can airdodge even before a standing Fsmash comes out. If you end the chaingrab one grab early you can hit with the Fsmash, but it doesn't go very far when you're in the upper 30 percents.

Boost Pivot Bthrow doesn't work for two reasons:
1- Some characters are thrown too far (Fox, for instance) to consistently be grabbed with the Boost Pivot.

2. Even if you can grab the character, you have to end your chaingrab one Dthrow early to ensure the Boost Pivot lands. Meaning you're giving up both percent, and the distance attained by that last Dthrow.

Fair wins, unless someone has another idea.

No seriously. This is freaking my out, guys.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Actually, I think fair, Fsmash and Boost pivot Grab > bthrow might all be decent ideas and just changes on the character.

It all just requires testing them all out to see which goes farthest for each person. <_< An all day job I bet.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I saw in those falco dittos between Sethlon and SK92 they did a few fsmashes after the dthrow if they couldn't chaingrab, but I don't know if that's decisive enough to convince me to use it.

Fair ftl

Ok, I think I can convince you to use Fsmash, or even just make you think about using it.

Take the normal CG limit 5 dthrows to 45% from there you can spike (assuming into the stage not off the stage), upsmash or connect with the sweetspot of the fsmash on most people. If all the moves are fresh; spike leads to 58% and a tech chase, upsmash leads to 59% and set up into the air, fsmash leads to 60% and horizontal knockback.

Tech chase is fine and all, but if the hit is teched you do not get much of a tech chase out of hit, less response time on your end.

Into the air is good because you can than decide how they will move about trying to get down onto the stage, but depending on the character can still be troublesome.

Now with the Fsmash. and horizontal knockback they get knocked back far enough and low enough that they cannot jump right back over you (unless they have multiple jumps) and that distance is perfect for camping with lasers. Plus, if you knocked them back over the edge of the stage you are set up for ledgeguarding. Downside is that hitting with the fsmash for most benefits only at lower percentages right from the chaingrab.

Most of the time you want that CG to death not CG for extra damage.

Upsmash can be used after 45% (varies with opponent for if the upsmash, boost upsmash can connect).

But still for that one reason fsmash can be useful in the correct setting.

 

[pure_awesome]

I just tried it out on a whole slew of different characters.

At the percents where Fsmash is effective, it's easily airdodged. At the percents where Fsmash is guaranteed, it's got terrible knockback. So Fsmash won't lead to 60%, since it's only guaranteed after the second to last throw of the chaingrab. It will actually lead to... 52, or something like that. Sweetspotted. Sourspotted it would end up doing 46 or something. (In Training Mode).

As for edgeguarding, if you're in a position where you can't, or don't want to Dair, shfair ends up doing more damage (56%) and puts them in a slightly lower, slightly further position from the stage, with Falco being able to recover in plenty of time to edgeguard with a simple double-jump.

 

[SuSa]

I just tried it out on a whole slew of different characters.

At the percents where Fsmash is effective, it's easily airdodged. At the percents where Fsmash is guaranteed, it's got terrible knockback. So Fsmash won't lead to 60%, since it's only guaranteed after the second to last throw of the chaingrab. It will actually lead to... 52, or something like that. Sweetspotted. Sourspotted it would end up doing 46 or something. (In Training Mode).

As for edgeguarding, if you're in a position where you can't, or don't want to Dair, shfair ends up doing more damage (56%) and puts them in a slightly lower, slightly further position from the stage, with Falco being able to recover in plenty of time to edgeguard with a simple double-jump.

Training mode doesn't account for stale dair's from the chaingrab.... you're numbers are looking more optimistic then they really are.

 

[pure_awesome]

Stale moves would only affect the Dthrows. Since those are constant in all cases, the results accurately reflect what will happen in an actual match.

I kind of figured that was obvious, so I didn't say it.


...also, I never talked about Dair. Do you mean Dthrow?

 

[SuSa]

I totally meant dthrow, that was a typo.

Also, it goes from 9% to 8% to 7% to 6%..... so it innaccurately reflects what will happen in an actual match. It's a few % lower in actuality.

2:35 am and counting for me.... lol

 

[pure_awesome]

Don't worry about it, I knew what you meant.

When I say "accurately reflects", I don't mean "It's dead on." I mean it gives you a realistic idea of what would happen re: Fair doing more damage and having better knockback than Fsmash. The percentages aren't accurate (if they were, I wouldn't have bothered to put "In Training Mode"), but it shouldn't matter. All cases are being changed in the same way (Dthrows do more damage than they should), so it's a constant throughout testing.

Hope that clears it up.


I just realized how rare of a conversation this is here-
1. "Type or other error"
2. "Sorry, did you mean this?"
3. "Yep, sorry, my bad."
4. "Don't worry about it."

 

[SuSa]

Constant testing in a mode that does not matter, doesn't mean its good to be constant.

I would rathers have a more realistic % from Versus mode, then an optimistic % from training mode.

Training mode can make things seem better then they appear.

It's like a side mirror on a car.

 

[pure_awesome]

Example:

Let's say I was testing Peach. And I wanted to know which did more damage, Peach using Jab Combo five times and then Ftilt, or Peach using Jab Combo 5 times then Dtilt.

First, let's test just Ftilt and Dtilt.

Training Mode (No stale moves)-
Ftilt - 13%
Dtilt - 10%

Group Mode (With stale moves) -
Ftilt - 13%
Dtilt - 10%

So far, so good. Now let's test with one jab combo. (Jab combo -> Tilt)

Training Mode (No stale moves)-
Jab Combo -> Ftilt- 19%
Jab Combo ->Dtilt - 16%

Group Mode (With stale moves)-
Jab Combo -> Ftilt- 19%
Jab Combo ->Dtilt - 16%

Good stuff. Now the whole thing (Jab Combo -> Jab Combo -> Jab Combo -> Jab Combo -> Jab Combo -> Tilt)

Training Mode (No stale moves)-
Jab Combo x5 -> Ftilt - 43%
Jab Combo x5 -> Dtilt - 40%

Group Mode (With stale moves)-
Jab Combo x5 ->Ftilt -39%
Jab Combo x5 -> Dtilt - 36%



So as you can see, despite both modes ultimately giving me different numbers, both modes still answered my ultimate question: Which will do more damage?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Why is the most up to date guide from september...?

 

[Crackle]

Qusestion: For tournament placings, would you (I don't mind opinion) recommend using Falco ONLY or do you think Falco/Marth would be better?

Facts:
-I get bored with only using Falco at all times
-When I try the character switch, sometimes I f-air with Falco instead of d-airing (for obvious Marth f-airing reasons).
-I haven't learned Falco's side-b cancel yet, the timing is hecka annoying for the 3 distances

Edit: Nevermind, answer's obvious, only my opinion matters when it comes to my own character development >.<

 

[Teran]

Qusestion: For tournament placings, would you (I don't mind opinion) recommend using Falco ONLY or do you think Falco/Marth would be better?

Facts:
-I get bored with only using Falco at all times
-When I try the character switch, sometimes I f-air with Falco instead of d-airing (for obvious Marth f-airing reasons).
-I haven't learned Falco's side-b cancel yet, the timing is hecka annoying for the 3 distances

Edit: Nevermind, answer's obvious, only my opinion matters when it comes to my own character development >.<

Actually you should go with what's comfortable. If your Marth feels kinda shaky, your Falco may still do better against Kirby/GaW or whoever. I have a competent Meta Knight, but I'd never risk using him because he isn't up to scratch when it comes to tourneys, even if he had an advantageous matchup.

 

[Crackle]

Actually you should go with what's comfortable. If your Marth feels kinda shaky, your Falco may still do better against Kirby/GaW or whoever. I have a competent Meta Knight, but I'd never risk using him because he isn't up to scratch when it comes to tourneys, even if he had an advantageous matchup.

Right, stay comfortable and in control of your own guy at all times, so that you may pay attention to the opposition the most carefully. Shutting down options with a match-up is only useful if its beknownst to your use in knowledge.

Nice sig btw Teran :]

Qusestion: My friend's Snake keeps dying to the Falco Chaingrab -> Spike. He is getting annoyed by it to the point of giving up Brawl. I don't know what to tell him, you guys have any idea?

 

[Teran]

Qusestion: My friend's Snake keeps dying to the Falco Chaingrab -> Spike. He is getting annoyed by it to the point of giving up Brawl. I don't know what to tell him, you guys have any idea?

Tell him to learn how to meteor cancel, and then how to C4 recover.
Alternately you could tell him to learn to SDI towards the stage and tech the spike, but Snake can survive it...

 

[pure_awesome]

Alternatively, if he doesn't want to learn high level stuff, just don't use the chaingrab on him. I've completely stopped using Falco against my friends because it's no fun for any of us anymore.

 

[unown88]

Could anyone help me figure out how to beat my friends diddiy kong? The matches are usually really close (1 life left for each and both of us are over 50%) There are just things i can't seem to get around while playing him. One major thing is when i dash attack him he shield and then down smashes, i try to buffer a shield but his down smash just seems to be to fast. What are some good strats to beat diddy?