Nitrix
Smash Ace
What is your opinion of the Pit vs Falco matchup?
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Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.
- Thread starter Darxmarth23
- Start date
Dariencove
Smash Rookie
Is there any use for Shield drop -> Buffered Turn around -> Usmash/Jab ?
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
It can be very annoying depending upon if someone is playing the ledge game. Apart from that, the match-up should be fairly back and forth on stage.
If there is, I doubt you will really consciously think about doing it. More than likely it will happen on reaction. The only situation I see for that happening is if someone tries to roll behind you and your in a shield. Other than that, I do not see why you ever would need to face backwards out of shield.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I want more help in the marth match up and I wont take no for an answer...
please oh god someome help me beat shaya just once ;-;
please oh god someome help me beat shaya just once ;-;
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Pick MEDANIIIIIIII
teluoborg
Smash Otter
Hmm a lot of people use attacks to get through your shield or simply end their aerial approaches behind you where your options are lessened.Xeylode said:
In this case I'd recommend turn around jab/grab or Bair OOS.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Will this incorrectly spelled thread title ever get changed? It's driving me CRAZY
swordsaint
Smash Master
guys i really do want more help in the marth up.
xonar stop being a fail troll ;-;
xonar stop being a fail troll ;-;
M@v
Subarashii!
Pit Falco is probably a 50:50. Both can camp and have defense against camping, so the smarter player will prevail in the camping game. Pit wins offstage, falco has more control on stage with his grab range and ftilts. In the air Pits nair and upair are big threats for damage, his fair he will use offstage to gimp, and he will keep his bair fresh for killing.
Fsmash bair and glide attack(PLEASE watch out for glide attack; its pretty much as good as mks) are his best kill moves.
Fsmash bair and glide attack(PLEASE watch out for glide attack; its pretty much as good as mks) are his best kill moves.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
There is a typo somewhere? Point it out, please :/
teluoborg
Smash Otter
Don't overuse lasers and phantasm ?
Maybe you should precise what you're having trouble with.
swordsaint
Smash Master
that is true teluo. but i guess I was more looking for some sort of full detail of the match up...i dunno
i kinda know the match up, but sometimes what moves i should use certain places escapes me.
for example. I DONT overuse lasers in this matchup, nor phantasm anymore. however when the marth is jumping i know i should laser. ok. so if he's not jumping around and approaching grounded. what are my options? I've never really asked that, and so I don't really know how to get some momentum going on a marth wihout...getting a lucky hit to say the least.
i imagine mixups of spaced jabs and ftilts, dash attacks, grabs and phantasms are good...bt i dont really know when i should be doing each of these...if you know what i mean...how do i get inside marth's sword to get some real damage in....
i kinda know the match up, but sometimes what moves i should use certain places escapes me.
for example. I DONT overuse lasers in this matchup, nor phantasm anymore. however when the marth is jumping i know i should laser. ok. so if he's not jumping around and approaching grounded. what are my options? I've never really asked that, and so I don't really know how to get some momentum going on a marth wihout...getting a lucky hit to say the least.
i imagine mixups of spaced jabs and ftilts, dash attacks, grabs and phantasms are good...bt i dont really know when i should be doing each of these...if you know what i mean...how do i get inside marth's sword to get some real damage in....
GameStation aka C4?!
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Messages
- 341
get-up attack to laser lock? but i find out what happens after I do a nair cause it'l knock down at the lowest percentage. Doing that while getting back up from the ledge and making sure your opponant is at the right percent works well. And of course there are other alternatives.
Once I utilize pivot laser ( cause whenever ever I can, I see an opportunity to laser lock ) i'll post a video about it.
Once I utilize pivot laser ( cause whenever ever I can, I see an opportunity to laser lock ) i'll post a video about it.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Mhm? Not seeing it.
omega zero
Smash Cadet
When is it better to use the C-Stick to do aerials and when is it better to actually use the controlstick + direction + attack button to do aerials?
Sph34r
Smash Journeyman
Cstick is always better, imo. With the analog stick you can't do retreating fairs/RAR/etc.
SN Viper
Formerly 9th in FL PR
ok so after the last grab to d-throw how do you guys read snake on stage? give some examples MMM i want to hear from you mister BRoomer congrats by the way
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
swordsaint
Smash Master
i dont see anything wrong with it
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I'm still not seeing it :/
I'll ask Teran to look at it if I ever catch him on Skype, maybe it's a mod thing?
I'll ask Teran to look at it if I ever catch him on Skype, maybe it's a mod thing?
I don't see the problem furboy.
Either you're screwing with my mind or I'm crazy lol
Well actually, the fact that you're using Brawl Light is a huge ****ing problem but apart from that there's nothing.
Ask a real qusestion plox.
swordsaint
Smash Master
what frame is falco airborne on after a jump
teluoborg
Smash Otter
Frame 6 if you believe this thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258564
Also for what I read last page you describe a position where you have no real advantage against Marth. So either try to get in a position where you have the advantage, or simply use mixups.
Alternating spaced jabs/tilts and running shields followed by OOS stuff (Nair, Dair, Usmash or grab) should be your best bet. But since it's mixups we're talking about it's not really safe unless you have a really good reaction time.
And the biggest problem with the screenshot above is obviously that he's using IE.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258564
Also for what I read last page you describe a position where you have no real advantage against Marth. So either try to get in a position where you have the advantage, or simply use mixups.
Alternating spaced jabs/tilts and running shields followed by OOS stuff (Nair, Dair, Usmash or grab) should be your best bet. But since it's mixups we're talking about it's not really safe unless you have a really good reaction time.
And the biggest problem with the screenshot above is obviously that he's using IE.
learning how to chain grab marth and doing the reflector edgeguard makes playing marth easier.
There should be some matches up of me vs mhaze from 2 weeks ago being upload sometime soon.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I can normally get off three grabs or so on marth for the chain grab. i dont know how much longer i can go for though. I think i can do it to about 30%
i have no idea about this reflector edgeguard =P
i have no idea about this reflector edgeguard =P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrAY-qxDt7o
Take a look at 2:05. Larry does the reflector edgeguard there.
Take a look at 2:05. Larry does the reflector edgeguard there.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
If you predict when Marth uses upb you can bair him through it (from the back of the upb) and if they don't tech it it's a guarenteed gimp :3
clowsui
Smash Legend
boost grab makes CG 10x easier v. marth, i just boost for every one now
tibs7
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 2,886
if i see you 2 playing one another ill tell you what he will do next and you will win
dw scoot you got dis
swordsaint
Smash Master
<3 you tibs
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I'M GOING OUT OF MY MIYEND!!!!
<sadface>
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Dude what's wrong? :/
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Okay, so I'll admit Brawl light is a stupid layout, but it's anti-POS material (people can tell one is on a forum if the screen goes from really light to really dark lol).
But I think it might just be a page problem, I'm half joking around, but that's what I seriously see.
"Get a Qusestion, get an answer"
v.
"Get a Question, get and answer"
rofl maybe I am seeing things.
On the Marth question I only know it from the other end of the spectrum.
don't get grabbed at low percent.
learn the boost grab (also helps when trying to tech chase with snake's dthrow)
DB1 will sometimes be used on shield b/c it has a deceptive amount of lag and can let him get a grab sometimes (it's a frame trap though), jab him out I guess
don't challenge nair (and I'm sure Shaya's like the pope of Marth nair lol).
But I think it might just be a page problem, I'm half joking around, but that's what I seriously see.
"Get a Qusestion, get an answer"
v.
"Get a Question, get and answer"
rofl maybe I am seeing things.
On the Marth question I only know it from the other end of the spectrum.
don't get grabbed at low percent.
learn the boost grab (also helps when trying to tech chase with snake's dthrow)
DB1 will sometimes be used on shield b/c it has a deceptive amount of lag and can let him get a grab sometimes (it's a frame trap though), jab him out I guess
don't challenge nair (and I'm sure Shaya's like the pope of Marth nair lol).
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I honestly see nothing wrong with our thread title.
Hit me up on AIM or something to see if you can be more elaborate, maybe?
Hit me up on AIM or something to see if you can be more elaborate, maybe?
swordsaint
Smash Master
yeah theres nothing wrong with the title
----
is mikehaze vs dehf up yet? =/
tournaments tomorrow, would like some more insight i guess
----
is mikehaze vs dehf up yet? =/
tournaments tomorrow, would like some more insight i guess
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Grab follows ups are what I would like to discuss.
I already know we have like a million different ways to follow-up from dthrow at low percents, but how about mid and even higher percents. From what I have noticed from a few falcos is that Fthrow -> DashShield in the attempt to shield an incoming aerial into a grab seems to work well on a number of the cast. This is easily escaped by jumping, but it is a potiential follow up. A better usage is something I have really only seen DEHF use through the usage of Dthrow -> jab to cancel out momentum and make it easier to follow up on. The benefits of this are the jab connects well past CG percents making it the ideal follow up I would say if you get a grab past 50% until it no longer works.
After that I am not really sure what would be the best solution. From what I can tell is that after 80% is the limit that dthrow -> jab still will connect. I have been experimenting with the idea of fthrow into a double laser at the apex of a shorthop which I'll just refer to as Short Hop Apex Double Laser or SHADL. I have only been able to test this on CPUs as of late due to not playing anyone, but the results have been somewhat promising. The normal trajectory for Fthrow at those percents is ideal for a SHADL to land. And I would call it the safest follow up instead of trying to IAP or Boost Smash over to the person after a throw.
On a side note: how come you guys never use SHADL as often. It works great for getting at people attempting to camp platforms, but I always see people try to SHDL or even FH a single laser.
I already know we have like a million different ways to follow-up from dthrow at low percents, but how about mid and even higher percents. From what I have noticed from a few falcos is that Fthrow -> DashShield in the attempt to shield an incoming aerial into a grab seems to work well on a number of the cast. This is easily escaped by jumping, but it is a potiential follow up. A better usage is something I have really only seen DEHF use through the usage of Dthrow -> jab to cancel out momentum and make it easier to follow up on. The benefits of this are the jab connects well past CG percents making it the ideal follow up I would say if you get a grab past 50% until it no longer works.
After that I am not really sure what would be the best solution. From what I can tell is that after 80% is the limit that dthrow -> jab still will connect. I have been experimenting with the idea of fthrow into a double laser at the apex of a shorthop which I'll just refer to as Short Hop Apex Double Laser or SHADL. I have only been able to test this on CPUs as of late due to not playing anyone, but the results have been somewhat promising. The normal trajectory for Fthrow at those percents is ideal for a SHADL to land. And I would call it the safest follow up instead of trying to IAP or Boost Smash over to the person after a throw.
On a side note: how come you guys never use SHADL as often. It works great for getting at people attempting to camp platforms, but I always see people try to SHDL or even FH a single laser.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I mix it up with both full hop singles lasers and 'shadls'. both high lasers hit platform campers fairly well.