Vitamin_x
Smash Apprentice
Does it involve Marth's laser beam?
Tell me it does. :D
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Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)
- Thread starter Pierce7d
- Start date
Tell me it does. :D
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
The best time to use it is a rising dair off the ledge, I will say use with caution since it tneds to leave you pretty open and is very laggy. This aint melee.....
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Umm why did you add "Ken" to the Shaya Combo? I mean you were obviously the discoverer of it.
It's actually an 8th frame hit of fair tippered (that sends your opponent backwards), fast fall'd to a rising reverse tipper dair. Replays of it exist, I should lolpload it sometime.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I remember when you were good, now you, Shaya, are game breaking. This is how you make combos, frame perfection and the ability to count frames in your head!
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
framework is what separates the scrubs from the pros from junkinthetrunk
cman
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 593
****ing toon link. How do you beat the chain? I remember someone saying fsmash, but it never works, so I might be doing it wrong. I can shield grab him once, but then he just does it at max range till i mess up or continues projectile camping. It's rediculous. I don't understand how everyone thinks the matchup is pretty easy.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
If he does it low to the ground, you can PS it and shield grab. Otherwise you should be able to run under it and punish him from there. And, I always thought Fair outranges his chain?
cman
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 593
At max range you can't shield grab. You can't run under it. Fair does not out range it.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
I have a question. I was playing an IC and just the pop was in front of me and the nana was trying to jump over, so I tried to F-smash pop away to rack up free damage on Nana. However, even though he was a little bit inside tipper range, Popo somehow shield grabbed me and CGed me to death.
I thought his grab range sucked and Marth's hurtbox didn't extend that far in F-smash
I thought his grab range sucked and Marth's hurtbox didn't extend that far in F-smash
he grabbed your hand
illinialex24
Smash Hero
****, your hand extends and still has a hurtbox? So F-smash is not safe on the IC's... what should I have used then?
Well you shouldn't have been using fsmash in the first place since Popo wasn't suffering any lag, you have to remember that's still a person playing Popo.
I guess a standard fair would have done the job, though if Nana is separated at all you should immediately take advantage and just go for her since you can pretty much ken combo her.
I guess a standard fair would have done the job, though if Nana is separated at all you should immediately take advantage and just go for her since you can pretty much ken combo her.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah its true and its what I always do but I found that I was in one of those rare situations it would have been easier to push away Popo because my options for hitting Nana were:
U-tilt, get grabbed and give them time to get back together
Uair, same thing
U-smash, possibly more lucky.
Jump bair (didn't think of this on the spot ****)
And then go for Popo.
7ACE7
Smash Apprentice
Hey guys I was just wondering if the Marth Boards had a stage discussion thread? If not I would like to recommend that one be started.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I think we can come to this conclusion about fsmash.
@7ace7 I'm pretty sure there's a stage discussion some where about counter picks and such. Just go to the marth guide thread.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
We had one awhile ago. You may have to search it up, as it'll take too long for me to retrieve the link.
7ACE7
Smash Apprentice
Well I found the stage counter pick thread for specific characters, but not a stage discussion thread to talk about how Marth does on specific stages.
perfect shield it, run up to him and grab, **** his ***. How foolish to play such a trash character against a S tier.
Thunder Of Zeus
*Rumble Rumble*
^ or if the situation doesn't allow just PS SH Fair>FF to tilits or grabs. TL should not be a problem
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
So that ******* TL I've been losing to has been lying to me about the range of the chain ("fair outranges zair" my @$$) . I knew i wasnt crazy when i noticed that no matter how well i spaced fair i always got hit. Ignorance mindgames ftf.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Yeah they'll do that. I'll likely be posting here more often....
@7ACE7: Would this thread help you by any chance?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197672
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197672
So it occured to me that I am going to be going nowhere constantly playing CPU's and crappy wifi. Though I'm not reallly qualified, should I attempt to teach one of my neighbors to play Competitivley? He comes over once in a blue moon for brawl, and I'm hoping I can make these occurances regular and possible "un-scrub" him? XD
Has anoybody ever attempted this?
Has anoybody ever attempted this?
I have...but he hates Brawl. So we play games with hitstun now, still...
nowadays I just mock him for STILL sucking due to lack of thought and WORSE decision making than me. o_o;
"What? You wanna SHFFL me? Well, I'LL CHAINGRAB YOU AND YOUR FAIL DI INTO A FSMASH AT 200%!" (Powerthirst voice).
"What's this? They can't nerf Meta Knight enough? Oh, well we can fix that, f*ck your counterpick stages FLLLLLLAAAAAAATTTTTTTZZZZZZZZOOOOOONNNNNEEEEEE TWWWWWWOOOOOO!
TL;DR - He needs the drive to play competitively first. If he takes it [any game] as nothing more than entertainment you can put down at any time, he won't improve. While video games are for fun, you need a serious mentality when it comes time to put money down.
Oh look at me, haha. What a hypocrite.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Do it. My friend did it to me. I just played smash 4 da lulz and even though I had a SWF account, I never really used it. He got me to sign up again under my more recent tag and I got competitive.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Who has a better recovery, toon link or Marth?
And who has better ledge games (them being on the ledge and their opponent trying to keep them from getting onstage), Tlink or Marth?
Yeah, I should hope that I already know both answers, but somebody is challenging me about it and I figured getting the Marth boards to weigh in on it explicitly would help, especially Viet.
And who has better ledge games (them being on the ledge and their opponent trying to keep them from getting onstage), Tlink or Marth?
Yeah, I should hope that I already know both answers, but somebody is challenging me about it and I figured getting the Marth boards to weigh in on it explicitly would help, especially Viet.
Vitamin_x
Smash Apprentice
TL's recovery is insane, and while holding a bomb it is even more insane.
I don't know about TL, but I know Marth kinda sucks on the ledge.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
It's definitely Marth for both.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Really I thought TL had the better recovery consider how high his second jump is he also has bombs and a tether.
When recovering, Toon Link has only a slight advantage in comparison to Marth's under the circumstance that -
He maintains his second jump
or/and
He has a bomb in hand.
TL's second jump is like Sheik's, it goes...really high. The bomb is situational but you can DI the hit so that you go toward the stage. Alternatively you could try to stage spike yourself and get various results depending on how you ASI'd to tech or just plain DI'd (not sure but eh).
However that's extremely situational.
Given that both maintain a second jump, it's dead even. Marth has a quick 'powerful' weak hit spot that can stage spike those who edgehog at the wrong that and DB to stall, as well as SB to get back horizontal momentum if he's knocked by a weak hit like Falco's lasers, as well as Counter to further slow his descent.
But his trajectory is very predictable, and it's quickness means nothing to one who has any experience edgehogging Marth.
TL suffers from the lack of stalling, but his Up+B is slow, which is good since if someone edgehogs too early, the last hit is strong enough to stage spike. Also he can throw a bomb up to try to cover his as he ascends, something Marth would probably love to have.
He can also walljump, but again that's situational.
So both have similar quirks to their recovery but most are situational, and their main recovery method is similar, except in speed, but they are opposites that happen to be good over one situation to another.
For on-ledge games, TL is probably better. He doesn't suffer the "Triple Jump Glitch" from his Up+B that forces him to remedy it through a Nair or whatever.
He's floatier and has projectiles (notably bombs) to stall out the opponent. His floatiness and walljump ability allow him to stall a little better than Marth as he can apply pressure at mid-range, and he has his aerials, which can usually do two of from one ledgehop onstage.
So..
TL and Marth are even on getting to the ledge.
TL beats Marth at getting back from the edge (when your two best options are ledgejump and ledgehop nair it's hard to not lose out in this one).
EDIT - I have to add TL still sucks at getting back on stage though. Just not as bad as Marth. ;P
That's just me though. Hopefully I answered everything alright.
Nexus Bond
Smash Apprentice
That's a joke right?
Why TL's recovery vs. Marth's:
TL:
+ His double jump covers an enormous distance
+ His up-b covers an enormous distance
+ He has three different projectiles that can all be launched at different trajectories
+ If he carries a bomb when recovering and it blows up then he gets his up-b back
+ He has a tether recovery
+ Floaty and has good DI
+ Excellent Walljump
+ Can attack out of airdodge
+ Up-b has long duration
- His up-b's priority isn't great
- His up-b isn't the fastest
Marth:
+ Side-b gives him a boost after the second jump
+ Kind of floaty
+ Shieldbreaker gives him a forwards boost
+ Up-B has invincibility frames
+ Up-B is a powerful stage spike against would-be edgeguarders
+ Up-B is fast
+ Quick, long-ranged, and high priority aerials protect against edgeguarders and projectiles
+ His counter can help stop edgeguarders and projectiles
+ Side-b can be used to stall
+ Up-b gieves him good vertical recovery (not as good as TL's though)
- More predictable recovery
- Worst airdodge in the game
- Easily edgehogged
OVERALL: TL>Marth in terms of recovery, because he has projectiles, tether, better double jump, and longer-ranged up-b.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Eh maybe Tink does have a slight advantage, but I don't see it as a large difference. Simply mix up the way you recover and Marth recovers quite safely. Plus, Tink can be gimped fairly well too.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
no wait, i think Marth's upB covers more vertical distance
but at the same time, with TL's upB u can move around while it lasts...
but at the same time, with TL's upB u can move around while it lasts...
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Toon Link's recovery can also be spiked through easier, it has no priority and no invicincibility. Which can really hurt Toon Link if Marth pushes off to a spike. But yeah, against someone like Jigglypuff or MK or Pit, who have no spikem, I would much rather have TL's recovery.
Nexus Bond
Smash Apprentice
Pit's dtilt spikes.
TL's up-b also has greater vertical distance. It has around the same distance as Fox's up-b (Which is also huge, can recover without second jump from the bottom of the screen on SV.
ViCTORiOUSViC
Smash Apprentice
Fox's upB can't go that far up from the bottom of SV...can it?
I don't think I ever saw that happen
I don't think I ever saw that happen
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Most things you should go test out and it'll answer your question. I thought Marth can recover from there aswell, but I may be wrong. Eh, once I get access to my Wii I'll sort this out.
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
instant bairing off of a platform is a great way to kill