Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Pierce7d]

Red, red, Green, Blue DB combination on block probably meant that Mike was going to end with 3rd green, since it retreats, and then, seeing his opponent not do anything, he might have attempted hitting with blue 4 on a mindgame shield drop. Blue 4 is extremely powerful when it's fresh, having pretty great vertical knockback. I didn't watch the video, but that's why I would use RRGB on shield.

To stop people that try and roll behind you, you MUST, MUST use the c-stick for BOTH Fairs. Previously, I used A for the first, and C for the second, but then I realize, you must maximize your spacing completely, and you must use C to do this. My brother mains Pit and MK, and my sparring partner mains Lucario, so I had to figure out what to do about roll countering. Also, I like Fair, Uair if you think they'll roll in, since you can combo out of Uair. Also, you can fair, and then use Dancing Blade started in the air while falling instead of a second Fair, since you can turn around with Dancing Blade, and it's multiple hits are better for not missing the timing on dodges.

Also, if someone's planking you with Pit, just time them out. I already knew I could do it, but me and Vex are friends, and I wanted to see if I could defeat his planking without timing him out.

 

[Shaya]

I still wonder whether or not Pit can actually safely get marth off the ledge himself... lol.

 

[Blacknight99923]

can anyone if you use the DJ up thing on slants realistically (forget what its called)

 

[makoforce]

can u fair too much

 

[Blacknight99923]

no its physically impossible to fair to much in one match because its absolutely positively unpublishable and doesn't lose to nado transcendent projectiles and occasionally lag.


to be serious in case you cant figure it out the answer is yes you can fair to much, I would think such a question could be figured out within 3 minutes of actual play

 

[earla]

ok, so you falling fair perfectly spaced on someones shield.

you jab after to cover = 4 frames? (quickest move to cover)?

can you be punished by any character after the fair?

 

[Shaya]

No character in the game has an oos move that punishes that comes out in 4 frames.

It depends on how "perfectly" you do it. But you can spot dodge / dolphin slash before they can grab you.
You can jab to beat a lot of things, yes.

Remember though, we're at -4. That means whatever the opponent does they have 4 frames "head start". FF fair to jab will punish every character's shield drop to move at least (well it would feasibly clash with squirtle/zss's jab).

 

[earla]

what about fair > dtilt? perfect spaced of course.

cheers jp. hope things are well in sydney.

 

[Shaya]

Fair to dtilt is just that much laggier start up, and because dtilt pushes you forward, imo it isn't too easily usable..

 

[earla]

i was playing around in training mode. noticed weak hit of the 2nd hit of nair from a sh hop backwards towards opponent combos into tipper f-smash on diddy.

instead of 23% with f-throw > tipper. you get 28% from 0.

setups? predict a roll/spot dodge.
------------------------------------------------

questions:
1. i notice glide toss forward/backward is different timing. are they different in anyway ?

i read that pierce7d mentioned 'the backward glide toss is ****'. why is that as opposed to the forward?

2. best options to gimp diddys up b when they're recovery below stage?

 

[Shaya]

1. Better ask pierce. Probably to do with Diddy's habits of trying to grab you/reduce the space between the two of you.

2. Instant ledge regrab.

 

[earla]

cheers.

1. how to punish mk's spacing their SH fairs?

2. can you punish nado out of the nado start up with any move?

i know fsmash + usmash seem to work.

 

[Shaya]

1. Marth has a sword.

2. Yes (another thing you could test out yourself though Earl)

 

[Blacknight99923]

you have to be patient and read but there is lag time, if they are only doing Sh fairs react accordingly

and options will beat nado provided you hit mk however realistically

counter
DB
DS (also oos)
f smash
u smash
I want to say tipper nair
fair if your diagonally above MK

 

[earla]

does jab/f-tilt > mk sh fair?

tips on marth vs sonic matchup?

 

[Reizilla]

Play gayer than the sonic. Wall them out with timed fairs. If they wanna spin camp, grab the ledge and plank them.

 

[Blacknight99923]

1. yes and as shaya said figure it out yourself
can you actually research this yourself before asking?

honestly a lot of these questions seem rather tedious and honestly basic.

Sonic plays a bait and punish game, don't leave lag out is the basic way of describing this match up
edit or do what reigun says

 

[makoforce]

what make SH ff fair so different to rising fair beside ground follow ups

 

[earla]

yes, i've read every single thread in marth guides.

questions are basic, just being thorough because i'm new to marth.

noticed i can get a tipper f-smash on characters on the ledge.

i'm not sure if it's from them lingering beyond their invincibility or it beats the start of their ledge jump? or get up/attack??

cheers

 

[Blacknight99923]

your questions are somewhat tedious and a lot of these things you should figure out for yourself, I'd recommend coming back in a week and asking questions

that said did anyone actually test GR buffered dash to U smash on MK? I don't remember it actually being proven WRONG

 

[earla]

has GR buffered dash been tested on other characters?

 

[Pr0phetic]

yes, i've read every single thread in marth guides.

questions are basic, just being thorough because i'm new to marth.

noticed i can get a tipper f-smash on characters on the ledge.

i'm not sure if it's from them lingering beyond their invincibility or it beats the start of their ledge jump? or get up/attack??

cheers

It can be either one.

has GR buffered dash been tested on other characters?

Yup, most (if not all) have been found already.

 

[earla]

which characteres does GR buffered dash u-smash work on 100%?

also, have the marth boards played around with the idea of shielding an attack (non power shielded) in order to space to a tipper f-smash?

like low percents intentionally non powershielding to set up spacing for tipper f-smash early from opponents shield pressure?

i recall normal shielding a toon links get up attack then it pushed me into tipper range = f-smash.

just a thought

 

[Blacknight99923]

which characteres does GR buffered dash u-smash work on 100%?

also, have the marth boards played around with the idea of shielding an attack (non power shielded) in order to space to a tipper f-smash?

like low percents intentionally non powershielding to set up spacing for tipper f-smash early from opponents shield pressure?

i recall normal shielding a toon links get up attack then it pushed me into tipper range = f-smash.

just a thought

why not just space yourself at that distance to begin with before you deal with 8 frames of start up and shield drop total plus 10 for f smash to cause something to be at 18 frames MINIMUM without including shield stun.

Can you please think things through?

 

[Attila_]

earl switching mains to marth?

evidently it won't be an easy process :D

*sh pew pews back to the falco boards*

 

[earla]

yes. an enjoyable challenge. good luck with your falco playing

 

[Kaffei]

Marth can do a pseudo wave dash on Rainbow Cruise's ship on the right side... Is this already discovered?

 

[Blacknight99923]

Marth can do a pseudo wave dash on Rainbow Cruise's ship on the right side... Is this already discovered?

any character can do a psuedo wave dash with a fast fall aerial, doing it into taunt is quite funny. It makes you look really cool lol

 

[Rappster]

how many frames does it take for fsmash to come out?
i don't have a wii, so i was wondering if it was possible to do grab release on lucas -> tipper fsmash.

 

[earla]

rappster dude. seriously. this isn't pre-school. read the 'guides' thread.

here: marth frame data http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825

here: marth guides collection: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269743

enjoy

 

[Shaya]

lol earl, chill.

Rappster, grounded grab release to fsmash is "just possible" I think (or they may be able to just shield it), hence it's not possible to get a tipper fsmash.
You can get aerials off of air releasing though.

 

[earla]

was kidding jp

 

[swordsaint]

was kidding jp

i want to punch you in the face

oh wait im just kidding

that makes EVERYTHING BETTER

 

[Attila_]

1. how to punish mk's spacing their SH fairs?

2. can you punish nado out of the nado start up with any move?

y do u want port priority v snake?

is it SH > Fast Fall > C stick Forward ?

or

SH > C stick Forward > Fast Fall

explain optimum "-4" disadvantage please? from sh ff fair falling on shield?

tips on recovering -> ? im finding im having to land on the stage alot with up b then punished.

tips on marth vs sonic matchup?

followed by:

rappster dude. seriously. this isn't pre-school. read the 'guides' thread.

here: marth frame data http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825

here: marth guides collection: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269743

enjoy

you really can't talk here, earl. easy up.

 

[Reizilla]

So, I'm looking into developing a new AT (similar to Melee uptilt) that will really boost Marth's metagame. . . Question is, where do I start?

 

[jbandrew]

Hey guys how do I get around Metaknight's Nado? everytime I use a move it gets caught up in the nado... is there a way to escape nado once caught and punish? Need some help here

 

[Duskshadow]

Hey guys how do I get around Metaknight's Nado? everytime I use a move it gets caught up in the nado... is there a way to escape nado once caught and punish? Need some help here

Well, let's not get caught in it to begin with. If a Meta-Knight decides to approach you with the tornado, the three most effective moves to use against it are counter, db (transcending priority), and dolphin slash. Once you do get caught in it, you can try to use directional influence to get yourself out. Then you can dolphin slash to interrupt the tornado.

 

[jbandrew]

Well, let's not get caught in it to begin with. If a Meta-Knight decides to approach you with the tornado, the three most effective moves to use against it are counter, db (transcending priority), and dolphin slash. Once you do get caught in it, you can try to use directional influence to get yourself out. Then you can dolphin slash to interrupt the tornado.

This is true, but my friend's MK is smart and watches for my SH fair approach to begin his nado so he can outprioritize. He doesn't really approach with it, he outprioritizes/interrupts with it. The DB priority thing is interesting though, ill try that more. And there's nothing I can do once im caught in? I was UP-B'ing out of some yesterday... but he can easily bait this and i get punished once again.. and then he gets momentum... with MK! lol

 

[Duskshadow]

This is true, but my friend's MK is smart and watches for my SH fair approach to begin his nado so he can outprioritize. He doesn't really approach with it, he outprioritizes/interrupts with it. The DB priority thing is interesting though, ill try that more. And there's nothing I can do once im caught in? I was UP-B'ing out of some yesterday... but he can easily bait this and i get punished once again.. and then he gets momentum... with MK! lol

Well, then don't get predictable with your forward air approaching. You can always just try to bait his tornado approach. Tornado is important to Meta-Knight's meta-game. If your friend isn't approaching and you are, then that's definitely not the right choice (unless you have a plan and are positive that it's going to work). However, once you are caught, your options are pretty limited. In my opinion, a lot of this match is patience and observation. Unless the Meta-knight main is very smart, there are definitely patterns to watch out for.

 

[jbandrew]

True. I'll bait his nado more and see how it goes with empty SH's... cuz I space myself a sword away.. so if I don't throw the sword out he can't catch me with it if I retreat SHAD. Smart idea, thanks.