Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[earla]

jbandrew. the following threads have endless useful info regarding the mk matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186736
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203056 good luck

my apologies to the marth boards for the australian players who pathetically went out of their way to contradict me for no reason. have you guys nothing better to do then stalk my posts, post in a character board you have nothing to do with? play with yourselves all day? mind your own business thank you.

i was obviously joking to rappster because of the simplistic questions i was asking. i was kind enough to link him directly to useful threads.

good luck with marth rappster! there are plenty of inspiring reads in the guides section.

 

[makoforce]

im going to my 1st tourney what should i practice

 

[LordAizen]

hello everybody, I'm new here and this is my first post so try not to be harsh if I sound a little nooby lol.

Anyway I joined these boards because I want to get better at Brawl but mostly I want to improve with Marth. After I'm done with Marth I want to get good with Meta Knight, Wolf, Toon Link and Ness but those are all beside the point.

How long does it take to master Marth?
What are the main things that you need to know how to do so that you can perfect Marth?
Lastly does anybody know where I can find out what all the Brawl terms are?(like Fair, Hitlag etc)

 

[light-zion]

what do people mean by a setup move?

 

[LordAizen]

what do people mean by a setup move?

I think a move that starts all of Marth's combos. I would actually like to know to since i'm pretty terrible with Marth lol.

 

[Blacknight99923]

hello everybody, I'm new here and this is my first post so try not to be harsh if I sound a little nooby lol.

Anyway I joined these boards because I want to get better at Brawl but mostly I want to improve with Marth. After I'm done with Marth I want to get good with Meta Knight, Wolf, Toon Link and Ness but those are all beside the point.

How long does it take to master Marth?
What are the main things that you need to know how to do so that you can perfect Marth?
Lastly does anybody know where I can find out what all the Brawl terms are?(like Fair, Hitlag etc)

Terms can be found here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773
some things regarding moves are not however

fair-foward air attack
uair-up air attack
nair- neutral air attack
dair-down air attack
bair-back air attack

To get better in general
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226635
Read this guide was for people like you
Watch videos of top marths which can be found in this
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269641

You can find the Q&A you can find the guide directory on these boards.

oh and don't try to master marth and use characters don't give you a large counterpick, anticounterpick(so you don't get taken to bad stages), stage counterpick, or pretty much don't really help you in any way.

AKA DON'T USE WOLF AND NESS


but almost every marth I know sides metaknight, including yours truly however I might add that he is the match up everyone knows.

however my current 3(4 when I can although fox is mainly for doubles) give me a large counterpicking advantage

Marth beats or goes even with most of the cast only losing to MK and D3, considering MOST (not all) match ups he does jsut as decently or close to as metaknight does he is my best chance of winning an individual match on most of the cast. I also know him the best

snake- semi hard counters Ice climbers and still loses to D3 and I get a HUGE stage advantedge on some stages making counterpicking stages like halberd on me stupid and pointless, not to mention people don't ban halberd on marth meaning I can simply pick snake when I lose and get a HUGE stage advantage on almost every member of the cast

MK- beats D3 and has an unquestionable even in the Ditto. Carries over similar spacing and disjoints marth has with better options and recovery and does well on MANY MANY COUNTER PICKS.

a set up move is something that sets up an attack which is important in brawl when positioning is some that is so important


also if you have any more questions contact me on aim personally, you can click on the icon under my name.

 

[Almo]

i've got a friend just getting into the scene now, and i was going to start static teaming with him. He likes toon link and Marth, but his ZSS is better. I know double marth is "ehh," and toon link is generally just not good in teams, so would practicing Marth+ZSS be a good team?

also any tips on who would be the better aggressor and who would be better playing defensively and holding stocks? Because he mentioned to me earlier he likes stock tanking (mostly because he's afraid that his skill is inferior to his opponents since he is new to the scene), but i can make the team run either way since i'm an avid doubles player and have been to about 20 tournaments.

 

[Blacknight99923]

toon link isn't a terrible stock tank actually realistically if he is hitting you with projectiles you need to work on spacing and teamwork because both boomerangs and bombs are fairly easily controled. I believe somone in Dekars doubles thread showed how TL is SUPPOSED to be used in teams

double marth is something that I and a random did and we took DEHF and rich brown to game 3 abiet they sandbagged first match (well I wasn't a character i really use either but), however we took their MK fox team to last stock with double marth, honestly I don't think its too bad against certain teams (and I personally think fox is incredible in doubles).

I a problem with Marth ZSS is you will have problems killing so teams with snakes, D3's and warios or other good stock tanks you may have trouble with. However I can't say any of your other teams will be particularly good at it either

Do you use anyone else besides marth?

 

[jbandrew]

Good things about a Marth/ZSS team: You're both good damage rackers once u land a hit and get momentum going.

Bad things about a Marth/zss team: Neither of you can kill too early, though ZSS's stun gun helps, she's still kind of lacking when compared to Snakes U tilt.

Another bad thing is that ur both very light characters and are suseptible to gimping. This team needs both players to be very skilled and know what they're doing with their characters to work in high levels of play. It can be done though imo.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Good things about a Marth/ZSS team: You're both good damage rackers once u land a hit and get momentum going.

Bad things about a Marth/zss team: Neither of you can kill too early, though ZSS's stun gun helps, she's still kind of lacking when compared to Snakes U tilt.

Another bad thing is that ur both very light characters and are suseptible to gimping. This team needs both players to be very skilled and know what they're doing with their characters to work in high levels of play. It can be done though imo.

I see this team losing momentum to quickly though as well. it can mean everything in a doubles match especially if your fighting a team that can capitalize on it

 

[jbandrew]

I see this team losing momentum to quickly though as well. it can mean everything in a doubles match especially if your fighting a team that can capitalize on it

True. Character's Like MK with momentum can **** Marth/ZSS face off. Because neither character have the tools to stop other characters from juggling them. Due to this... if you both start getting ***** in the air, then ur gna have a reaaaal hard time landing without getting punished or ultimately killed. =/ This team needs a killer. Snake/Wario would fit well with either character.

 

[Blacknight99923]

snake marth is probably stage dependent. I personally find it easier to use marth with snake on FD and SV but not BF and other platform or otherwise non flat stages, when my doubles partner and I play we try to use techases and wall offs he ends up doing most of the damage and getting kills why I provide support and he doesn't have to deal with pressure of opponents. Marth and MK provide good disjointed walls which allow snake some serious space control with tilts and in doubles its fairly easy to get grabs and consider how good snakes tech chase along with killing power it provides a very good set up. I am also very proficient in watching all 4 players and can help him limit options on techases as well fairly easily whenever I have the chance.

oh and marth also has tippers which MK lacks so if your quick you can land kills fairly early


I don't see you being able to implement that strategy with ZSS however, actually outside of kills I don't see any really help snake provides becasue he can't adaquetly back ZSS up (and she doesn't have disjoints to play as safe as marth)

I could see wario being great with ZSS however

 

[LordAizen]

Terms can be found here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773
some things regarding moves are not however

fair-foward air attack
uair-up air attack
nair- neutral air attack
dair-down air attack
bair-back air attack

To get better in general
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226635
Read this guide was for people like you
Watch videos of top marths which can be found in this
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269641

You can find the Q&A you can find the guide directory on these boards.

oh and don't try to master marth and use characters don't give you a large counterpick, anticounterpick(so you don't get taken to bad stages), stage counterpick, or pretty much don't really help you in any way.

AKA DON'T USE WOLF AND NESS


but almost every marth I know sides metaknight, including yours truly however I might add that he is the match up everyone knows.

however my current 3(4 when I can although fox is mainly for doubles) give me a large counterpicking advantage

Marth beats or goes even with most of the cast only losing to MK and D3, considering MOST (not all) match ups he does jsut as decently or close to as metaknight does he is my best chance of winning an individual match on most of the cast. I also know him the best

snake- semi hard counters Ice climbers and still loses to D3 and I get a HUGE stage advantedge on some stages making counterpicking stages like halberd on me stupid and pointless, not to mention people don't ban halberd on marth meaning I can simply pick snake when I lose and get a HUGE stage advantage on almost every member of the cast

MK- beats D3 and has an unquestionable even in the Ditto. Carries over similar spacing and disjoints marth has with better options and recovery and does well on MANY MANY COUNTER PICKS.

a set up move is something that sets up an attack which is important in brawl when positioning is some that is so important


also if you have any more questions contact me on aim personally, you can click on the icon under my name.

What is usually the best way to start off using Marth. Because I know the combos like Ken Combo and others but I have a really hard time Short Jumping, Grabbing and just overall continuing combos after I have started them off.

 

[jbandrew]

Lord Azien the way I started (literally 3 days ago and I placed 17th in a NJ tournament using all marth) is to SH and Fair ur opponent. You want to space the fair so it tippers them or their sheild. Then as soon as the fair finishes, BACK UP (preferably all the way back until u land). Congratulations, you have successfully spaced with marth and pressured @ the same time.

 

[LordAizen]

Lord Azien the way I started (literally 3 days ago and I placed 17th in a NJ tournament using all marth) is to SH and Fair ur opponent. You want to space the fair so it tippers them or their sheild. Then as soon as the fair finishes, BACK UP (preferably all the way back until u land). Congratulations, you have successfully spaced with marth and pressured @ the same time.

I've seen that combo done tons of times but I can't do it because

1.) I still can't really short hop(still learning)
2.) I'm not fast enough
3.) I'm still learning how to space
4.) If they block/I go over them I don't really know what to do

 

[jbandrew]

well then work on SH'ing. But for now if you can't you can also Full Hop fair and do the same thing. DI back and try to land as fast as possible... i dont really knw tho, i dont full hop fair much.

 

[LordAizen]

What's DI? I'm sorry but i'm a super noob in smash lol.

Also I know how to Short Hop it's just that when i'm in a fight I get nervous and just push the button at full force lol

 

[jbandrew]

It's ok we all once were. DI = Directional influence. basically in simpler terms, just fair and then move the control stick back so u get away from ur opponent and u can't get sheild grabbed.

it goes:

1. Run up to opponent

2. Fair (tipper range)

3. Move control stick back

Thats basically how marths metagame works. Fair their sheild, see how they react and then continue the match. You got this

 

[LordAizen]

It's ok we all once were. DI = Directional influence. basically in simpler terms, just fair and then move the control stick back so u get away from ur opponent and u can't get sheild grabbed.

it goes:

1. Run up to opponent

2. Fair (tipper range)

3. Move control stick back

Thats basically how marths metagame works. Fair their sheild, see how they react and then continue the match. You got this

The problem is the timing. I have to time that perfectly but I usually spend too much time thinking about what i'm going to do and they outspeed me big time. By the time I'll attemp to do that they'll do some super combo. I think my biggest problems are I don't have enough speed to actually do all those things and I don't have anybody actually good to practice on. Only the level 9 CPU and sometimes I even have trouble against them

 

[Blacknight99923]

The problem is the timing. I have to time that perfectly but I usually spend too much time thinking about what i'm going to do and they outspeed me big time. By the time I'll attemp to do that they'll do some super combo. I think my biggest problems are I don't have enough speed to actually do all those things and I don't have anybody actually good to practice on. Only the level 9 CPU and sometimes I even have trouble against them

Please read what I gave you before continuing.......

Your starting to ask for nuances when you don't even know for basics, use common sense

 

[makoforce]

well i used to be just like um btw what type of do you cause cant assume everyone has GC

what controller you use if you got wiimote&nunchuck message me i could help you

what type of controller u use that can also matter

sorry 4 double post(omg triple post im sorry)

 

[Shaya]

Quadruple post.
I'm not trying to be overly arrogant/mean/rude here but...

You're from the united states so I assume you can use better English - everyone on these boards would appreciate it. For the same reason I don't see a reason for you not to have read the rules.

Use the "EDIT" button in the future, okay?

just about EVERYONE uses gamecube controller. There are very few (and far between) who use wii mote/stuff.

 

[Almo]

toon link isn't a terrible stock tank actually realistically if he is hitting you with projectiles you need to work on spacing and teamwork because both boomerangs and bombs are fairly easily controled. I believe somone in Dekars doubles thread showed how TL is SUPPOSED to be used in teams

double marth is something that I and a random did and we took DEHF and rich brown to game 3 abiet they sandbagged first match (well I wasn't a character i really use either but), however we took their MK fox team to last stock with double marth, honestly I don't think its too bad against certain teams (and I personally think fox is incredible in doubles).

I a problem with Marth ZSS is you will have problems killing so teams with snakes, D3's and warios or other good stock tanks you may have trouble with. However I can't say any of your other teams will be particularly good at it either

Do you use anyone else besides marth?

we'll see how it goes and what the best option for our team is. It's our second time teaming at a tournament, and the last time we did was last summer, and he's only been to 3 tournaments but never entered singles. So i don't expect to do well either way, it's more to see where he's at and what we need to work on.

So because of this, I have a feeling he will be reckless and toon link wouldn't be a good idea, but that's just me. Double marth i'm just really "ehh" about because it's got obvious flaws in it, however i can teach him this character faster since I know marth. So that's why i suggested zero suit.

I don't really play any other characters. I dabble with a lot of characters and a lot of higher tiered ones especially, but i've only taken MK, Snake, and Jigglypuff (lol) into tournament for a few matches, and it usually results in a loss. Plus I just came off a 3 month MK playing period only to find out my marth is way better, so i'm trying to stick to solely marth for tournaments to get better.

 

[LordAizen]

well i used to be just like um btw what type of do you cause cant assume everyone has GC

what controller you use if you got wiimote&nunchuck message me i could help you

what type of controller u use that can also matter

sorry 4 double post(omg triple post im sorry)

I use the GC Control lol. I'm pretty sure that's like the easiest one to use and I'm too used to it.

 

[jbandrew]

we'll see how it goes and what the best option for our team is. It's our second time teaming at a tournament, and the last time we did was last summer, and he's only been to 3 tournaments but never entered singles. So i don't expect to do well either way, it's more to see where he's at and what we need to work on.

So because of this, I have a feeling he will be reckless and toon link wouldn't be a good idea, but that's just me. Double marth i'm just really "ehh" about because it's got obvious flaws in it, however i can teach him this character faster since I know marth. So that's why i suggested zero suit.

I don't really play any other characters. I dabble with a lot of characters and a lot of higher tiered ones especially, but i've only taken MK, Snake, and Jigglypuff (lol) into tournament for a few matches, and it usually results in a loss. Plus I just came off a 3 month MK playing period only to find out my marth is way better, so i'm trying to stick to solely marth for tournaments to get better.

Marth mains ftw. I use all marth too, except for MK... cuz that **** gives me nightmares. Snake <3

 

[Reizilla]

I would argue that the classic controller pro is the easiest to use, but only if you're not already used to the GC controller.

Also, for teams, try to get in a lot of friendlies with with all of your different combinations. My brother and I learned MK/Wario and tried that in teams, only to realize that our Marth/Wolf did way better. Just test stuff out and you could be surprised at how well something works.

 

[LordAizen]

I would argue that the classic controller pro is the easiest to use, but only if you're not already used to the GC controller.

Well I'm already used to the Game cube control and I don't own a classic control lol.

Also does anybody want to fight me so you guys can see where exactly I stand because I don't have a way to post videos, so you guys can tell me where I need to improve and stuff.

 

[Blacknight99923]

er wifi doesn't really prove that much, your location says Cali. find me Mike (ima volunteering you sorry) or some other marth that is at least decent at a tourney and do friendlies

 

[LordAizen]

er wifi doesn't really prove that much, your location says Cali. find me Mike (ima volunteering you sorry) or some other marth that is at least decent at a tourney and do friendlies

what do you mean find you? Do you mean like with FC?

 

[Blacknight99923]

if you don't know MU's wifi is your place at that point onward its help isn't as well helpful if that makes sense

 

[Reizilla]

He means to try to find Marth players in real life. Go to the regional board as well and look for players near you.

 

[Blacknight99923]

actually the marths have a marth player finder

 

[Reizilla]

Yeah, but you'll learn more from not playing dittos all day.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I would personally recommend marth dittos at first actually

against someone who truly understands how to do them of course. Marth dittos force marth to do more then his standard options and can allow new players to fully realize all of them

 

[daballa100]

Hey i was wondering, how old are you guys lol. I see in the Marx Socialist thread you guys talk about alcohol xD. Just wondering because i'm not even old enough to drive yet lol.

 

[jbandrew]

Good training is to fight good MK's that know the marth matchup. Yes; you'll probably lose because MK vs Marth is a nightmare, but it's really good practice and helps your marth improve and act as fast as possible due to MK being the fastest character in the game. Preferably offline practice of course.

 

[Shaya]

Just about no one ***** Marth harder than Marth himself.
Marth dittos are very good at learning various (billions upon billions) of options and is the hardest character in the game to space against.
At least MK's max range **** is set up fodder for us tippering him.

 

[Almo]

i dread the ditto, mainly because since darc quit and bizkit never uses him in tournament, i am one of the THREE marth's in my region, one of them being from ME (currently in MO) so i hardly ever see him, and the other being a newer marth player with 3 or 4 tournaments under his belt. I have zero practice in that matchup, but i'm really grateful that the lack of marth practice my region gets can work to my advantage. marth whooooo lol

 

[Reizilla]

I just hate playing the ditto. That's what MK is for, no?

 

[Blacknight99923]

A ditto is something that in EVERY MATCH UP your greatest strengths and tools are turned against you, it becomes a race to see who can utilize ALL their tools the fastest the smartest and with the most precision in marths case.


theres is no faster way in my opinion to getting better with marth than to continuously play a good marth in a ditto