Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Revox]

Ok, so I am new to marth (playing around and realized he is amazing) and my friend that I always play with is snake and Pokemon trainer. I am fine against him with pokemon trainer but once he is snake I cannot get within melee range, due to him be unreal at his grenade game. Is there an easier way to approach him other than shielding every single grenade until i creep close enough to get 1 hit in? Also with marths counter, counter any attack in the game(aka finals smashes as well) just pure curiosity.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Thanks, I was wondering about that because the last time I did it, when I held the jump button longer I don't fall to super fast, let's say I just get more air with marth when I jump, and then spike, but either way I guess it's good, if I'm wrong please correct me.

One last thing though, do you fall after the person when you can spike that person?, or is that just asking for trouble? When your also falling to your death?
__________________

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I'll say somet some general stuff you might have missed.

When you use the C-stick for spiking, pressing down on the C-stick will also make you fastfall. So, in order to make sure you don't suicide yourself, what you do is you jump, and then BEFORE the peak of the jump, you press the C-stick down. If you press the C-stick at the peak, it will cause you to fastfall.

I'm not sure about what the person said earlier (sorry forgot the name) about tapping lightly on the control stick, since I almost always use C-stick. But even if that is true, you still want to Dair before the peak of the jump, or else you could lose too much height and could get edgeguarded if you miss the spike, or just fall to your doom.


@Revox

Yay for you using Marth :D

No, counter does not counter Final Smashes (well, at least not most of them). Counter does counter any attack though, including melee, projectiles, or even something like the wind from King DDD's Neutral B (the Inhale attack).

Um there really isn't any of way except for dodging the grenades and/or shielding, sorry. And you shouldn't have to shield that much, throwing a grenade takes a lot of time. If you run, you should be able to reach him in 1-2 shields (assuming if you're running on the ground and don't jump).

 

[SKy Angel]

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I'll say somet some general stuff you might have missed.

When you use the C-stick for spiking, pressing down on the C-stick will also make you fastfall. So, in order to make sure you don't suicide yourself, what you do is you jump, and then BEFORE the peak of the jump, you press the C-stick down. If you press the C-stick at the peak, it will cause you to fastfall.

I'm not sure about what the person said earlier (sorry forgot the name) about tapping lightly on the control stick, since I almost always use C-stick. But even if that is true, you still want to Dair before the peak of the jump, or else you could lose too much height and could get edgeguarded if you miss the spike, or just fall to your doom.

Sorry if I am confusing, but the first sentences you said yes, I got my answer on that subject.

Now the second part that's what I wanted to know, you just mention it got it now, Thanks. ^_^

 

[Marauder]

I'm not sure about what the person said earlier (sorry forgot the name) about tapping lightly on the control stick, since I almost always use C-stick. But even if that is true, you still want to Dair before the peak of the jump, or else you could lose too much height and could get edgeguarded if you miss the spike, or just fall to your doom.

My name's Marauder lol. I didn't say tapping, I said tilting. Just like how you'd do an ftilt or an utilt. Just tilt the Control stick down and you won't fast fall. Setting you C-stick to Attack gives the same effect. Opens up things like walk-off dairs without you putting yourself in a vulnerable position. But you can also jump then hit down on the C-stick at the apex of your jump and you won't fast fall.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

My name's Marauder lol. I didn't say tapping, I said tilting. Just like how you'd do an ftilt or an utilt. Just tilt the Control stick down and you won't fast fall. Setting you C-stick to Attack gives the same effect. Opens up things like walk-off dairs without you putting yourself in a vulnerable position. But you can also jump then hit down on the C-stick at the apex of your jump and you won't fast fall.

you're ALWAYS vulnerable after a dair, especially considering the amount of cast members with projectiles.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Sorry if I am confusing, but the first sentences you said yes, I got my answer on that subject.

Now the second part that's what I wanted to know, you just mention it got it now, Thanks. ^_^

Ok good Nah I'm bad at interpreting people's posts on the internet... lol.

My name's Marauder lol. I didn't say tapping, I said tilting. Just like how you'd do an ftilt or an utilt. Just tilt the Control stick down and you won't fast fall. Setting you C-stick to Attack gives the same effect. Opens up things like walk-off dairs without you putting yourself in a vulnerable position. But you can also jump then hit down on the C-stick at the apex of your jump and you won't fast fall.

Yeah sorry, i was too lazy to click to the previous page to check XD. Oh sorry, meant tilting... . Mmk that's cool didnt know.

About setting C-stick to attack instead of smash so you can do aerials without fast falling:
Wow never realized setting C-stick to attack would help in that way :D.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

How come when I set my C-stick to attack it makes me jump randomly. It also does this with B stick

 

[Marauder]

you're ALWAYS vulnerable after a dair, especially considering the amount of cast members with projectiles.

I was talking when you try to spike and fast fall to your death..

How come when I set my C-stick to attack it makes me jump randomly. It also does this with B stick

This happens when you flick the C-stick halfway instead of directly in the desired direction. But as you said, it happens at random. Most times when you flick it halfway between two points, you'll jab or nair (if you're airborne obv).

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

I was talking when you try to spike and fast fall to your death..

always, always, always, always, always spike on the ascension.
1) You don't fastfall with normal c stick
2) You get a footstool chance
3) It puts space between you and your opponent and puts you in the advantaged position anyway
4) The lagg on dair is so obnoxious if you aren't jumping you'll probably get stage bounced if you miss the spike

or maybe that's just me.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Spike when you are going up.

It helps if the opponent is behind you.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Spike when you are going up.

It helps if the opponent is behind you.

this.

I always: dash>pivot>run/jump off stage>airjump>slide thumb down on c stick

or i just get them off a ledgehang 0,o

 

[Marauder]

1) Yes if you hop before dairing, you don't fast fall. I said that earlier.
2) Unreliable if you ask me. I really don't fish for footstools.
3) Not quite in an advantageous cuz if they read you and AD, you're still ****ed but w/e...
4) Um..tech?

And yeah, it is best to spike while going up. Most other options are kinda booty...

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

1) Yes if you hop before dairing, you don't fast fall. I said that earlier.
2) Unreliable if you ask me. I really don't fish for footstools.
3) Not quite in an advantageous cuz if they read you and AD, you're still ****ed but w/e...
4) Um..tech?

1) Yeah... and attack C stick makes your character spaz out when you're doing ground tilts so there's a pretty decent downside
2) It's not something I try for, it just happens 25% of the time due to my rhythem of jump>dair
3) And yet its worlds safer than a falling dair. that's asking for a gimp.
4) and if they hit you under or in the "hook" of FD?

agreed. I'm going to bed *has exams tomorrow*

 

[Darxmarth23]

I never d-air unless my opponent is an idiot.

If you can d-air them, they are either doing something wrong, the match up is ridiculously in my favor in which they should have cp'd a char, or they are failure in its purest form and don't deserve to live let alone come back to the stage.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I never d-air unless my opponent is an idiot.

If you can d-air them, they are either doing something wrong, the match up is ridiculously in my favor in which they should have cp'd a char, or they are failure in its purest form and don't deserve to live let alone come back to the stage.

Not always. I agree that spiking is not always the best option but in certain situations there is no point not to. My friend Will is a really good DK and I still spike him on occasion. Ledgehop dair is too good for horizontal recoveries.

Usually it is safer to bair, fair, or nair though.

 

[Marauder]

1) Yeah... and attack C stick makes your character spaz out when you're doing ground tilts so there's a pretty decent downside
2) It's not something I try for, it just happens 25% of the time due to my rhythem of jump>dair
3) And yet its worlds safer than a falling dair. that's asking for a gimp.
4) and if they hit you under or in the "hook" of FD?

agreed. I'm going to bed *has exams tomorrow*

I pretty much assumed you were talking about FD to begin with so...

Also, I didn't have much problems with Tilt-stick. You just have to make precise movements. Which in all honesty, is something you should be used to. I've since switched back to default though for SDI.

Good luck on your exams .

 

[Darxmarth23]

Not always. I agree that spiking is not always the best option but in certain situations there is no point not to. My friend Will is a really good DK and I still spike him on occasion. Ledgehop dair is too good for horizontal recoveries.

Usually it is safer to bair, fair, or nair though.

Bro, seriously, you can tell that i was exaggerating. In order for me to have that many reasons to spike, I'd be spiking on every edge guard.

I would say a fresh n-air would be good, or an f-air on recoveries that can deal damage and are disjointed.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah spiking is really pwnage... but using bairs, fairs, and nairs are still fun, especially if the opponent's character is easy to gimp XD.

 

[Shaya]

Dair is 'safe' if used properly against Wolf.

Full hop rising dair on wolf, if it hits his shield, he does not have the ground speed (Marth's aerial momentum can move him outside of wolf's fsmash range! his dacus 'may' get you, but if you move BEHIND him, it's harder) to get you in time, and he doesn't really have a great utilt/upsmash (upsmash is good for badly spaced fairs for wolf, not this).

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Dair is 'safe' if used properly against Wolf.

Full hop rising dair on wolf, if it hits his shield, he does not have the ground speed (Marth's aerial momentum can move him outside of wolf's fsmash range! his dacus 'may' get you, but if you move BEHIND him, it's harder) to get you in time, and he doesn't really have a great utilt/upsmash (upsmash is good for badly spaced fairs for wolf, not this).

okayokay

dair is never safe on everyone but wolf. =0

 

[Denzi]

So if I DB into a shielded opponent and don't stop after the first hit,what's the best thing to do from there? Because I've been stopping after the third downwards hit, because of the step back.

 

[GenGastly]

when I short hop and f air should I use c stick or A? I find it hard to press Y and c stick, any suggestions? Or should I jump with the control stick?

 

[Tennet]

The C-Stick is best for aerials. You just have to tap y then flick the C-Stick, it isn't as hard as it may seem.

 

[phi1ny3]

Depends. If you want to wall, you'll prolly want to use C-Stick. If you're going to crossover or do another fair afterwords (and you feel you won't be punished), Then I prefer forward A and sometimes I'll SH it.
To do C-stick aerials more effectively, you can either "claw" it, or you can flick your thumb quickly from Y/X (I prefer X since it's closer) to the C-stick.

 

[illinialex24]

C-stick is best for aerials, however, I personally switch in and out C-stick, I mainly C-stick but if I'm going from fair to uair or so, I go C to A. Thats just me though.......

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

So if I DB into a shielded opponent and don't stop after the first hit,what's the best thing to do from there? Because I've been stopping after the third downwards hit, because of the step back.

Stop after 2 if you can... the third on each has more lagg than 2 or 1
OR you could use the buffer to fake out and stall, but that's usually not gonna work. (DB wait DB2 wait DB3 DB4, so its not just immediate succession.)

when I short hop and f air should I use c stick or A? I find it hard to press Y and c stick, any suggestions? Or should I jump with the control stick?

if you want to hit a smaller opponent on the ascension, you should probably use A, as it is faster. if you're hitting a big character or falling while doing the fair, use c stick.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Lol a bit funny about using A or C-stick for aerials, we just discussed it a few pages back XD.

So if I DB into a shielded opponent and don't stop after the first hit,what's the best thing to do from there? Because I've been stopping after the third downwards hit, because of the step back.

Yeah not worth the step back thing . But of course, if their shield will break in one more hit, then you might wanna go for it XD (actually im not sure if DB will break the shield or just hit the opponent).

 

[Lawkk]

Against a Wario in general would it be better to rush down or just turtle?

 

[Pr0phetic]

Against a Wario in general would it be better to rush down or just turtle?

Offense, turtling is for MK, heavies, Snake, maybe the ICs.

 

[stealth3654]

When countering, is the damage multiplied by 1.2 and the knock back proportional to the move that was countered?

 

[Pr0phetic]

When countering, is the damage multiplied by 1.2 and the knock back proportional to the move that was countered?

Yes and yes.

 

[Inle~Orichas]

Hypothetically if i was able to walk off a ledge ever so slightly, F-air, and DI back onto the ground without jumping or using any move based vertical increase to get back onto that ground, what could the applications be?

 

[C.J.]

You sure Rukkiko? (btw, what's the origin of your name, can't figure it out, lol) I always heard that Marth's is 1.1 and Ike's is 1.2

 

[Shaya]

It is 1.1

and from my understanding it's proportional to how much damage,
as in that minimum 8% that you get from moves less than 8% knockback is like

knockback(8) + (damage * rate(8)) / resistance(character)

I may be wrong though.

But in other words if someone hits you with a move that only does like 10%, yet is extremely powerful... (Like, you evaded all the hits of marth's db, except the LAST one, and the opponent's db is fresh, and that last hit does only 6% [i.e. 8%] then it would be same even if you countered the first hit with nilish knockback).

But as I said, I may be wrong, seems like an observation... countering a countered MK's shuttle loop does pitiful knockback, considering if it hit you, you would have flung to the other side of the level. It's why counter is high reward against characters like Donkey Kong or Peach, while less rewarding against MK (unless you're abusing some jackets).

There's also that "counter jacket" thing that gives you a higher resistance to knockback.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I is 1.1.

and I think shaya is right.

 

[Albert.]

But as I said, I may be wrong, seems like an observation... countering a countered MK's shuttle loop does pitiful knockback, considering if it hit you, you would have flung to the other side of the level. It's why counter is high reward against characters like Donkey Kong or Peach, while less rewarding against MK (unless you're abusing some jackets).

There's also that "counter jacket" thing that gives you a higher resistance to knockback.

I seem to be missing something but how are peach and Donkey kong related?

 

[Pr0phetic]

Oops it is 1.1, my bad I'm tired lol

And countering their attacks gives relatively large knockback, compared to MK.

Finally, my name is a combination of my friend's (Christina Rukki) last name and ko for that weeaboo effect lmao, it was random.

 

[FU^InSmash]

my marth is pretty pro right now but i need some more combinations. i just fair fair then nair or so my over B. or i do fair fair dair to spike. fair then to a f smash. i got nothing else. my marth is really good but i want it to be better.

any suggestions??

 

[Pr0phetic]

my marth is pretty pro right now but i need some more combinations. i just fair fair then nair or so my over B. or i do fair fair dair to spike. fair then to a f smash. i got nothing else. my marth is really good but i want it to be better.

any suggestions??

Those *combinations* are avoidable. Even though I could say a lot more (but it wouldn't be helpful, just critical) so I'll just help you out: go Here

 

[Shaya]

Peach and DK have a lot of moves that do like 15%+.