Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Heartstring]

No, Fthrow's hitbox doesn't hit anyone behind you. But it starts a lot faster and keeps you from getting punished by Ice Climber #2, unlike Bthrow.

i would thought grabbing is practicaly outlawed against ic's anyway. so why is this being discussed?
imo, NEVER fair in the ic matchup unless its off the edge, get that landing lag and youre a stock down

 

[benaji261!]

i would thought grabbing is practicaly outlawed against ic's anyway. so why is this being discussed?
imo, NEVER fair in the ic matchup unless its off the edge, get that landing lag and youre a stock down

Why WOULDN'T you Fair? It's a spacing move. At some point the ICs will get close and jabbing can be PS'd at times, so another option would be to space with Fair. Same concept in the DDD MU.

Also you can grab, just don't GET grabbed.

 

[metroid1117]

i would thought grabbing is practicaly outlawed against ic's anyway. so why is this being discussed?
imo, NEVER fair in the ic matchup unless its off the edge, get that landing lag and youre a stock down

Grabbing is good against the ICs because if you grab one of them (preferably Popo), you can pummel (grab attack) to knock the other IC out of the way and then BThrow to separate them, leaving one of them vulnerable.

From my (limited) experience, FAir is great in the IC match-up; as long as you space it and buffer jabs during landing lag, ICs won't be able to grab you because they aren't fast enough (like Sonic/CF) and their grab range isn't good enough (like D3/Olimar). This, however, is assuming that you're spacing FAirs such that the tip of the hitbox is hitting them. Of course, if you try attacking them and they are able to rush in and powershield the middle part of the hitbox, you will get severely punished. Regardless, the main point is that if you space properly, I don't believe that you could be punished for using FAir.

 

[Slaps]

Fair outranges blizzard wall! =D lol

 

[Nysyarc]

Fair outranges blizzard wall! =D lol

I do tend to Fair ICs using Blizzard wall and it usually works as long as you come from slightly above and time it for when the Popo is using Blizzard. If you FF the Fair you can even hit them both... although only hitting one could be favorable, to separate them. I wouldn't recommend assaulting a Blizz wall from the front, even with Fair. I don't think it outranges Blizzard horizontally and if it does, it's only by a pixel or two.

 

[Slaps]

preferrably hit popo cause it is harder to control nana, if you hit nana he has full control on popo and can run and grab you, if you hit popo he has slight control over nana though she will want to go toward popo... If you do it correctly you can trade hits and hit him and then get a slight hit from blizzard causing you not to have Fair landing lag =D usually what happens with me...

 

[Nysyarc]

Yah that's a good point about no landing lag. If you're really lucky you may catch Popo with the top part of Fair and Nana with that lower backswing that would knock her the opposite direction. I've never had that happen but picturing it in my mind it seems like it would be possible while they're doing that wall.

If that happened you could just turn, charge an Fsmash and wait for Nana to come strolling into it while Popo watches helplessly... assuming they had a fair amount of damage on them already.

 

[Palpi]

Contrary to popular belief, IC can PS ikes Fair with both nana and popo. It is hard to do...Nana's PS is like a melee ps.

 

[Mr. Doom]

So...I added another victim to my b-button list.

 

[san.]

Gratz on 3rd Mr. Doom. I always see you placing well =D

I had to play ICs in tourney today in grand finals. CP'd both rainbow cruise and japes to force the character switch, and won last match on pokemon stadium 1.

1 screw up from either can result in a whole stock. There were a couple times he air dodged into me, and when I thought it was a free jab, I apparently mistimed it and got grabbed. Also, it was annoying avoiding the powershields after a certain point, but wasn't too bad.

If it's in Ike's favor, I think it's still very close. (not from this set, playing this just reaffirmed my beliefs).

 

[bladeboys]

Congratz to Mr.Doom and San ^^

 

[Mr. Doom]

What? Hold on. I never told anyone that I attended a tournament yesterday. Someone's spying on me.

 

[bladeboys]

What? Hold on. I never told anyone that I attended a tournament yesterday. Someone's spying on me.

You are famous dude haha

 

[san.]

News spreads fast man

 

[Heartstring]

Gratz on 3rd Mr. Doom. I always see you placing well =D

I had to play ICs in tourney today in grand finals. CP'd both rainbow cruise and japes to force the character switch, and won last match on pokemon stadium 1.

1 screw up from either can result in a whole stock. There were a couple times he air dodged into me, and when I thought it was a free jab, I apparently mistimed it and got grabbed. Also, it was annoying avoiding the powershields after a certain point, but wasn't too bad.

If it's in Ike's favor, I think it's still very close. (not from this set, playing this just reaffirmed my beliefs).

well yeah, most unpunishable player wins, although i dont see how cp-ing japes would help you out, i HATE japes. so glad its not on the uk counterpick list XP
id jsut cp raindowride and worry more about the stage than them, i think its one of the few cases its a good stage for ike

 

[san.]

His ICs were very on point that day, where he was playing much better than any other time I played him.

I went to stages I know he won't use ICs against, because I was confident I was confident taking on whatever other character he throws at me without having to play as well. He went MK on rainbow cruise and went DDD on japes.

I don't have many problems on japes and rainbow if I play the stage correctly.

 

[theeboredone]

Yea, I honestly think too many Ike mains shy away from RC, because they are afraid of getting gimped hard or the stage screwing them over. If you play smart, and make sure to tech if you get hit in a weird area, you can easily be effective on that stage. I actually beat Hylian's G&W on that stage as well (he was out of practice with it, but it's a very good stage for G&W).

In any case, I would avoid using Ike on RC if I was going against MK and maybe Diddy and Wario. Other then that, Ike can do some work there.

My favorite part of RC is when you have to get back down onto the boat, and you cg your opponent on the wall above and then finish them off with D-throw.

 

[Ussi]

Yea, I honestly think too many Ike mains shy away from RC, because they are afraid of getting gimped hard or the stage screwing them over. If you play smart, and make sure to tech if you get hit in a weird area, you can easily be effective on that stage. I actually beat Hylian's G&W on that stage as well (he was out of practice with it, but it's a very good stage for G&W).

In any case, I would avoid using Ike on RC if I was going against MK and maybe Diddy and Wario. Other then that, Ike can do some work there.

My favorite part of RC is when you have to get back down onto the boat, and you cg your opponent on the wall above and then finish them off with D-throw.

Why you wouldn't take Diddy there baffles me....

MK is the only character whose truly impossible to fight on RC for Ike

 

[-RedX-]

DDD will wall infinite you on the ship.

 

[Ussi]

DDD will wall infinite you on the ship.

Camp the left side of DDD, platforms, and the right upper part of the ship.

 

[san.]

Maybe if you're dumb lol. Not that hard avoiding getting grabbed in a specific position with DDD facing a cetain direction for a very small portion of time. It's easier for even DK to do it, because he can move from a place where he can't to cargo-->dtilting really easily. (aka what Ussi said)

RC is manageable for Ike. Not good, but not that bad either. Only a few spots on the stage are very dangerous.

RC for most characters is fighting regularly on the ship and end part, which is pretty neutral against most characters.

camp/avoid in rising section (high ceiling) staying on the highest part during the swing to get to the next part safely/quickly. +when people are in the air in the rising part, Ike can outrange people anyways. There are only a few moves certain characters possess that one needs to perpetually stay on the lookout for.

 

[-RedX-]

I'm still gonna ban RC due to the fact that you'll never know when someone will pull MK out and bring you there lol

But it couldn't hurt me to practice more on that stage just in case.

 

[theeboredone]

Why you wouldn't take Diddy there baffles me....

MK is the only character whose truly impossible to fight on RC for Ike

Aside from the one part of the stage where there are several platforms and no solid ground, Diddy is pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsW6T0nabVs

 

[san.]

Still, there are platforms galore and uneven ground. I attribute the video to the diddy player just being good in comparison to the metaknight. I believe that if he played someone with equal skill level, or at least equal skill on RC, he would have a rougher time on rainbow cruise in comparison to many other stages.

No clue how Ike does against diddy on rainbow cruise, though it shouldn't be too bad because the limited space and the shield push on Ike's attacks. There are some better stages, although diddy could just ban 1 or counterpick character MK, because MK is great on all of our good stages.

 

[Nysyarc]

Aside from the one part of the stage where there are several platforms and no solid ground, Diddy is pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsW6T0nabVs

To be fair though, that Diddy was clearly a much better player than the MK. Based on his performance in that match... which is GF, nobody in that tourney must have known the MK match-up at all, because he didn't seem to really know what he was doing.

MK might be hardest for it but he's definitely not the only character you have to worry about on RC. I personally don't mind RC most of the time... I kind of enjoy fighting there, and once you get used to how the stage moves, having a bad recovery doesn't really factor in at all... at least not any more than it does on any other stage.

 

[theeboredone]

To be fair though, that Diddy was clearly a much better player than the MK. Based on his performance in that match... which is GF, nobody in that tourney must have known the MK match-up at all, because he didn't seem to really know what he was doing.

MK might be hardest for it but he's definitely not the only character you have to worry about on RC. I personally don't mind RC most of the time... I kind of enjoy fighting there, and once you get used to how the stage moves, having a bad recovery doesn't really factor in at all... at least not any more than it does on any other stage.

There are several youtube videos of diddy players playing on RC, most of them against MK players. The 3 that I watched, the Diddy player won. On top of that, I've seen Gnes get CP'ed to RC only to see him win. If you know what you're doing with Diddy, he can be very effective there. He has good mobility in the air, projectiles, and a good recovery.

 

[san.]

I see where you getting at, but I predict that much **** on most stages anyways lol. If diddy got stage cp'd that hard, he wouldn't be top tier.

I saw ADHD playing on rainbow cruise many times at MLG, and even when he won a lot there, I could see that it was quite difficult to play well there vs a high level opponent.

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh I'm not saying he isn't good on RC. I just think it's kind of like Snake in a way. Diddy, like Snake, is big on stage control with his naners, which becomes harder when the stage is always in motion. I've never fought a Diddy on RC myself so I'm just speculating. I have fought many Snakes there though, and brought many Snakes there. It really does affect the gameplay of a Snake who relies on nades a lot, and so I would assume there would be a similar effect on a naner-reliant Diddy.

 

[Palpi]

Adhd ***** mk's on RC =]

 

[san.]

ADHD just ***** in general =/

I usually just ban FD against non-MKs and ban rainbow cruise vs MKs. I've started to just CP neutrals more often, because MK excels on all of our good stages. It's easier just going to battlefield/PS1 *shrug* and maybe 1-2 CPs I like going to

 

[Palpi]

I think you should take the MK to battlefield for your CP. (if you were to CP a neutral) MK is better on FD and SV than Battlefield and it is Ike's best neutral. Delfino can work well for you, but MK can play really gay there.

 

[Nysyarc]

ADHD just ***** in general =/

I usually just ban FD against non-MKs and ban rainbow cruise vs MKs. I've started to just CP neutrals more often, because MK excels on all of our good stages. It's easier just going to battlefield/PS1 *shrug* and maybe 1-2 CPs I like going to

MKs usually ban BF against me, so I just go to PS1. Even though MK has no projectiles, FD and SV are still not the best choices to fight him IMO. You need terrain advantages against MK, and a perfectly flat, unchanging surface is too much in his favor.

What do you guys think of Frigate against MK? I mean in every way except the lack of a ledge half the time, it's not a bad stage for Ike. If you can just focus on avoiding the right side of the stage during that first section, it's actually not bad, because the platforms that pop out from the sides in the other section can save your recovery, and the uneven terrain can give you an edge if you use it right.

I'm just trying to think what other stages we can use against him but there's really nothing. Halberd is iffy because he can come through the floor with aerials, like Delfino. I kind of like Halberd though because Ike can KO up fairly easily with Utilt/Usmash/Uair, while MKs KO moves are primarily horizontal, and Halberd has a low ceiling.

I still stick to BF/PS1 most of the time but if I'm feeling daring or bored with the usual stuff I'll go with one of those two.

 

[YagamiLight]

I've been mixing up my CPs a lot lately in an attempt to branch out my stage experience. Brinstar, Delphino, Castle Siege, Halberd, PS1 etc. I find Ike to do well enough on all of these. Doesn't help that BF gets banned against me most of the time anyway.

I make it a general rule to ban Rainbow Cruise for the reason Red-X posted. If someone has a pocket MK then you pretty much lost the game on Rainbow Cruise. I'm an optimistic guy but Ike straight up loses 99% of the time to Meta Knight on Rainbow Cruise. Meta Knight has just the right amount of pressure to place on you during the critical points of the stage (i.e. when you have to move) to make it that you will have a really hard time. Just go ahead and ban that stage, every other stage is managable (more or less).

I don't think Jungle Japes is a bad stage for Ike at all. You just have to play intelligently on it. That's a pretty broad blanket statement but if you don't do really foolish things on JJs you really can exploit some parts of it. Namely that you won't actually die off the top ever.

 

[Mr. Doom]

ICs talk

Which ICs are you referring to, if I may ask?

Spoiler

which is kind of too late since I already did.

In any case, I would avoid using Ike on RC if I was going against MK...

My favorite part of RC is when you have to get back down onto the boat, and you cg your opponent on the wall above and then finish them off with D-throw.

I'm about to practice with an MK on Rainbow Cruise. And as for the wall infinite, you don't have to finish your opponent off with d-throw. Just keep throwing him/her into the wall, and eventually the game will think that s/he's in the bottom blast zone and will blow up accordingly, as evidenced from this video.

MK is the only character whose truly impossible to fight on RC for Ike

I'll experiment with that and get back with you guys later.

MKs usually ban BF against me, so I just go to PS1. Even though MK has no projectiles, FD and SV are still not the best choices to fight him IMO. You need terrain advantages against MK, and a perfectly flat, unchanging surface is too much in his favor.

What do you guys think of Frigate against MK? ... I'm just trying to think what other stages we can use against him but there's really nothing.

To be honest, I don't care where players take me. And since I believe I'm a bit versatile in a lot of stages, I'll take anyone to any stage I see fit. I might even consider taking DeDeDe to Castle Siege just for the eruption kill, despite the fact that he has a walk-off insta-kill.

Phew... I hate playing catch-up...

 

[Teh Brettster]

I like playing ketchup.

MK on RC?

NO OPTIONS.

 

[-RedX-]

That clothing lmfao
Might as well just say wear it once then burn it.

 

[benaji261!]

Who the piss would make clothing that you can't clean?...

 

[Ussi]

Its the coming age of clothes that do not need to be washed

 

[san.]

I don't think it's THAT bad on RC. If you can beat the MK, chances are you'll win on RC anyways. I beat most people who decide to go MK on me and choose RC. If the MK is just about as good as you are, it probably will be a pain, but Ike manages to do fine/neutral on 2/3 to 5/6 of the level.

@ Mr. Doom:

ICs was Cura. Probably known to a limited number of people, but definitely one of the best ICs I've played.

 

[Gnes]

I see where you getting at, but I predict that much **** on most stages anyways lol. If diddy got stage cp'd that hard, he wouldn't be top tier.

I saw ADHD playing on rainbow cruise many times at MLG, and even when he won a lot there, I could see that it was quite difficult to play well there vs a high level opponent.

Its true...against good mks its incredibly difficult. The reason diddy wins so many times is that no one really knows how to pressure diddy on the stage. Its a bad stage for him

Adhd ***** mk's on RC =]

ur dumb lol.