Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[FrznSaber]

I can't remember what I wrote. All I remember was a crucified jesus staring down at me (took my SAT at a catholic school) and trying to avoid a "friend" that had this obsessive crush on me.

 

[theeboredone]

Have you guys heard the story of this one guy who got a perfect score on his writing section by just writing one sentence? The topic was "Which is more important for success? Luck or hard work?". He wrote, "Let's try luck and find out."

 

[PentaSalia]

i bet that was you bored

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

wow.. I can't believe this.. now even raykalm's saying Ike is bottom 5.. and I think he seconds him

 

[YagamiLight]

wow.. I can't believe this.. now even raykalm's saying Ike is bottom 5.. and I think he seconds him

"Oh, okay."

Although I value Ray Kalm's opinion (significantly) more than say, A2's, seconding Ike is not quite the same as using him extensively. Anyone can claim to use Ike as a secondary, really.. Regardless, what he thinks (or does not think) about Ike still doesn't really matter that much. If he wants to think Ike is bottom 5 then let him do so. I'm sure the vast majority of people will tell you that Ike is at least passable enough to not be bottom 5 or 10. Don't ask me though, I'm pretty biased.

 

[numba1cheese]

Hm, it's been a while since I've visited this place (school johns). Unlike Kimchi, I don't sit around lurking or anything like that. When I'm gone, I'm gone. I took the SAT last semester (11th grade), and got a 1830. Definitely can improve though. Goal is to get 2000 or higher.

As far as Ike being bottom 5 goes...that's kinda hard to debate. You could make the same arguments on exploiting lesser characters (Ganondorf) with much more ease. I don't want to get too much into it, since these debates usually consist of a hard headed person on each side who is never willing to change their stance.

Other notes:

Good job Slaps on beating Hylian at that tournament. I heard he's a darn good player in Texas and well respected in the smash community.

Bored: Fresh Prince clip is legit. Show is too good.

Light: Digging the avatar.

Niddo: If A2 was banned, I wouldn't be surprised if an A3 popped up.

That is all.

 

[-RedX-]

@Penta, I got the same topic, I just don't remember what I wrote about tbh lol
Isn't 1800+ like genius level...? @_@

 

[YagamiLight]

Light: Digging the avatar.

Many thanks.

Isn't 1800+ like genius level...? @_@

1800ish on the SAT is around the average for an incoming freshman at a high ranking university. High 1800s, low 1900s, something around there.

From my experience of taking it (only once, though) it's more of a test that quantifies how well you can focus on what they ask you. This isn't to say that you don't need to know some mid level words or math formulas, you do. But if you sit down and focus there is NO reason as to why you shouldn't be getting 1800+. Don't study much (if at all) either. At best, a few weeks before the examination, sit down and time yourself taking a practice SAT exam and afterward look at sample essays and stuff.

 

[san.]

I didn't study for SATs and got ~2000. All my friends were getting 2100+ which made me sad.

SATs, the questions i did such a long time ago.. sometimes you forget.

Hay guis, I think I'm starting to understand the MK matchup again =) There are a couple situations where I don't know what to do atm, but I'm starting to get back up there.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

"Oh, okay."

Although I value Ray Kalm's opinion (significantly) more than say, A2's, seconding Ike is not quite the same as using him extensively. Anyone can claim to use Ike as a secondary, really.. Regardless, what he thinks (or does not think) about Ike still doesn't really matter that much. If he wants to think Ike is bottom 5 then let him do so. I'm sure the vast majority of people will tell you that Ike is at least passable enough to not be bottom 5 or 10. Don't ask me though, I'm pretty biased.

Although I did much more than just 'second' Ike, there are plenty of other ways for you to be sure of something.

 

[YagamiLight]

I didn't study for SATs and got ~2000. All my friends were getting 2100+ which made me sad.

SATs, the questions i did such a long time ago.. sometimes you forget.

Hay guis, I think I'm starting to understand the MK matchup again =) There are a couple situations where I don't know what to do atm, but I'm starting to get back up there.

Heh, same thing here. I got a 2040 without studying and then all my friends get like the 2100s and that annoyed me. Didn't annoy me enough to study and pay the $40 to take it again, though.

What situations do you have trouble in? I'm no master of the MK match-up by any means but maybe it's something where the answer isn't instantly visible and you need community support!

Also I am going home in about an hour. Should be able to Brawl / collect Bthrow to Dash Attack data / etc soon enough. Thinking about how much more we know about Ike now than 2 years ago makes me really want to sit down and write a huuuuuugggggeeeee guide for every aspect of his moves and such but one person can't do something like this without making errors / it's quite a bit of work. I'd love for us to make some sort of community Ike guide, though. I think we're close enough as a community to pull it off.

EDIT: Not saying that the only way to say something about Ike is to flat out main him and play him most of the time, Ray. What I am saying, though, is that doing that is probably going to be the quickest and most accurate method of understanding any character.

 

[PhantomX]

Light... you don't even need to play AS a character to understand what they can/can't do. Watching it enough or playing against it enough also accomplishes that.

The only thing that's impossible to understand is Ike's aether hitbox.

 

[YagamiLight]

Light... you don't even need to play AS a character to understand what they can/can't do. Watching it enough or playing against it enough also accomplishes that.

The only thing that's impossible to understand is Ike's aether hitbox.

If you watch / play against a character that definitely can let you understand but if you use the character itself then you can make the slight gameplay variations yourself and understand the full extent of the character by your own experimentation rather than the comparatively slow process of watching other people do the stuff.

Also yeah don't worry, I don't get Aether's hitbox either.

 

[-RedX-]

The first hitbox of Aether is the equivalent of one of Snake's legs during his Nair lol.

I find Ganon's windbox on Utilt harder to understand.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Light... you don't even need to play AS a character to understand what they can/can't do. Watching it enough or playing against it enough also accomplishes that.

*facepalm*

*headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk*

I give up on this site. It's hopeless. Everybody here is brain dead. This is the site where everyone who lives in a padded cell meets through the internet.

I'm sorry, but outside of Inui every single time he posts...that statement (more painful is what it implies) has got to be one of the most painful things I've read for a guy with a red/purple name.

Doing what you suggested will give you an elementary level understanding of what a character can and can't do at best. Get you slightly pass the "Ike has a fast jab, lots of power, and lots of range" stage. That's about it. Better than nothing obviously, but you are far from actually understanding the character, how it feels to use said character, the actual limitations of a character instead of just the ones you can notice visually. Ugh.

Playing against a character gives you one limited version of that character's abilities. Watching that character can give you a bit more as you can see various versions. But you don't really know a character. Claiming you can understand a character by just watching is like claiming you can understand how to race in the Indy 500 by watching it on TV. You might have a general idea, but you don't really know how to, the limits of the car, how to handle it, ect.

I sincerely hope that the previous statement does not imply how the SBR thinks when going through MUs and Tier Lists. It would render the whole list barely more usable then your typical dude's attempt to make a list.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

There's a certain way to play against Ike that exploits just about everything he does or can do. People play too roughly against him, this includes myself. Ike is the fourth worst character in my opinion.

It may seem a bit trollish of me to be making a, what can be called 'negative' post of Ike, and that too in the Ike boards, but I thought it would be better for me to post my opinion here now since I'll probably get called on for doing soon in the future.

I see that this has already happened ^.

 

[Marauder]

I tend to agree with Ray Kalm. People don't play against Ike as ghey as they should. As much I love the character, he has glaring flaws that are easily exploited. If it weren't for Jab and the shenanigans that can follow, Ike would be a lot lower.

 

[benaji261!]

imo I like reading Niddo's posts more than A2's. A2 has to evaluate EVERYTHING, parts and all, in previous posts with an essay. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but there are some things you just DON"T have to reflect to future posters. It can be irrelevant and makes him seem like he's trying his hardest to get on people's nerves(like a troll).

inb4flame

 

[Hylian]

*facepalm*

*headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk*

I give up on this site. It's hopeless. Everybody here is brain dead. This is the site where everyone who lives in a padded cell meets through the internet.

I'm sorry, but outside of Inui every single time he posts...that statement (more painful is what it implies) has got to be one of the most painful things I've read for a guy with a red/purple name.

Doing what you suggested will give you an elementary level understanding of what a character can and can't do at best. Get you slightly pass the "Ike has a fast jab, lots of power, and lots of range" stage. That's about it. Better than nothing obviously, but you are far from actually understanding the character, how it feels to use said character, the actual limitations of a character instead of just the ones you can notice visually. Ugh.

Playing against a character gives you one limited version of that character's abilities. Watching that character can give you a bit more as you can see various versions. But you don't really know a character. Claiming you can understand a character by just watching is like claiming you can understand how to race in the Indy 500 by watching it on TV. You might have a general idea, but you don't really know how to, the limits of the car, how to handle it, ect.

I sincerely hope that the previous statement does not imply how the SBR thinks when going through MUs and Tier Lists. It would render the whole list barely more usable then your typical dude's attempt to make a list.

You freak out too much lol. And no one on this last page is even in the SBR.

 

[PhantomX]

*facepalm*

*headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk*

I give up on this site. It's hopeless. Everybody here is brain dead. This is the site where everyone who lives in a padded cell meets through the internet.

I'm sorry, but outside of Inui every single time he posts...that statement (more painful is what it implies) has got to be one of the most painful things I've read for a guy with a red/purple name.

Doing what you suggested will give you an elementary level understanding of what a character can and can't do at best. Get you slightly pass the "Ike has a fast jab, lots of power, and lots of range" stage. That's about it. Better than nothing obviously, but you are far from actually understanding the character, how it feels to use said character, the actual limitations of a character instead of just the ones you can notice visually. Ugh.

Playing against a character gives you one limited version of that character's abilities. Watching that character can give you a bit more as you can see various versions. But you don't really know a character. Claiming you can understand a character by just watching is like claiming you can understand how to race in the Indy 500 by watching it on TV. You might have a general idea, but you don't really know how to, the limits of the car, how to handle it, ect.

I sincerely hope that the previous statement does not imply how the SBR thinks when going through MUs and Tier Lists. It would render the whole list barely more usable then your typical dude's attempt to make a list.

Sounds to me like you don't know what it means to be either intellectual or analytical.

Why do you think I **** at this game without even owning it or a Wii? If what you said is true, I'd be placing terribly all the time. Since I understand what characters are capable of and what their options are in different situations, I am able to punish them and capitalize on their shortcomings and force them into bad positions. Sure, I don't get to know what it "feels" like to play a character, but that doesn't matter in the least when it comes to knowing their capabilities.

The closed-minded one here is you, not I.

 

[theeboredone]

You really don't need to feel a character to understand their tendencies. Simply gaining experience, watching top players, or other matches constantly will give you an idea of what players like to do, what works, what doesn't work. Play any Snake player, and you know that when they get close, they are most likely to f-tilt or grab. I don't need to play Snake to feel that, I can see that from the constant matches and videos I've seen of Snake. Some people are simply better at executing and timing, which makes them better than others.

This applies to almost any kind of competitive event. Professional football players study film of the opponent to see their tendencies, debaters watch film and read about what to say and what not to say. In the end though, it comes down to execution and precision.

 

[HeroMystic]

Talk about **** hitting the fan.

As for what Ray_Kalm said, I probably have to agree that people don't play gay enough with him. I actually CP'd G&W with Ike and all I did was intercept his aerial attacks with F-air and kept my space the entire match. That doesn't mean I play gay enough, that's just an example.

As for being bottom 5, I can't say I'm thoroughly convinced of that. He's highly predictable and is a very basic character, but his statistical prowess and basic true combos makes me think he breaches the bottom 5.

 

[Palpi]

i think ike is better than he on the tier list

 

[Teh Brettster]

As for what Ray_Kalm said, I probably have to agree that people don't play gay enough with him. I actually CP'd G&W with Ike and all I did was intercept his aerial attacks with F-air and kept my space the entire match. That doesn't mean I play gay enough, that's just an example.

Spacing, campy G&W can get annoying. But if you were intercepting all of Ike's aerials with Fair, the Ike wasn't spacing well enough and should learn to approach with air dodge, etc.


........
Oh crap. If I don't get up, I'm going to be late to my own tourney. xD

 

[HeroMystic]

Switch that around. I was the Ike, and I was intercepting G&W's aerials (particularly B-air) with F-air.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Switch that around. I was the Ike, and I was intercepting G&W's aerials (particularly B-air) with F-air.

Oh. I misunderstood. I just woke up when I typed that response. >_<

HAY GUYZ. If you're really bored, you can watch this today. Brawl, SF4, and Blaz. There may not always be amazing matches, but at some points there will be good ones happening.
(This is the tourney I'm co-hosting, BTW.)

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/saint-valentine-s-beatdown-tourney

 

[da K.I.D.]

the thing that ps and niddo are arguing about is a type of thing that varies from person to person.

most people do have to play a character to understand them. when san first started getting really good and winning tourneys out here in new york, me and pikapika picked up and started playing ike, cus that gave us a better feel for the exact range, power, nuances, and what not of the character.

there are some people like px, that can learn enough about a character from watching them that they know enough about the character to find out their flaws and how to properly exploit them with their own character, that they know exceedingly well.

as a basis tho, the rule is usually that you can learn the most about a character from playing them.

 

[Palpi]

I have practiced almost every character in the game because of ADD, but it seems to help me with that match up more with my secondaries than my main, which was MK.

For instanced, i played izumi, a pretty good toonlink, i lost last stock 40% as MK and with falco I lost last hit last stock. At this point I rarely used falco, but it seemed I was much more comfortable with the MU. I was also very comfortable as marth, a character I rarely use. I did put in some time to practice toonlink too.

This goes the same for a lot of characters 'cept diddy. I am only good at 1 match up with mk and that is diddy.

 

[YagamiLight]

Switch that around. I was the Ike, and I was intercepting G&W's aerials (particularly B-air) with F-air.

It's not too difficult to intercept G&W's aerials with Fair. The very fact that he can't use his aerial approaches like he can in every other match-up is why Ike v G&W is pretty much even.

Anyway yeah, Ike has exploitable weaknesses. I think this should have been obvious. What's not obvious is that EVERYONE in mid and below has the same level of exploitable weaknesses. If they didn't they would be top . Wolf has a mediocre recovery and a really bad weakness to random locks. Luigi has a horrendous movement speed coupled with terrible range. And so on, and so forth. Ike's weaknesses are just the ones that you'll see the fastest (why are my attacks so slow?!), they aren't the 'worst'

I hope that makes sense, I just woke up.

 

[Palpi]

Gnw beats ike imo.

off stage gnw *****. He can gimp aether with oos up b. on stage gnw is barely at a disadvantage. on sv and fd ike has advantage on stage, rest are around neutral.

 

[PentaSalia]

it an even match up
seriously
G&W being able to gimp ike easily balances out with how easily ike can overall kill G&W

seriously,just fair space and jab properly to keep him back
it's just one of those MU's that have to be fought differently
if u fight how u normally do,you're going to get *****

just ask red lmao

like the 5th time ive said this lol.___.

 

[san.]

GW just has to play really different. Throw an aerial in front of Ike and he'll whack that crap away with his long range. Pretty much true for most of GWs moves compared to Ike.

Up B/Up air is a godsend that gives GW something to pull out, too, which can be used in numerous situations and provides an effective means of setting up for other attacks. GW has some blaring weaknesses that ike can abuse (and partly vice versa for GW) especially with the gaps in the hitboxes and reliance on outranging the opponent.

 

[YagamiLight]

Game & Watch's Up B is by far the most annoying thing to deal with as they are coming back from off stage (and you forget you are playing Ike and try to be aggressive off stage). You'd think I'd hate shuttle loop or dolphin slash more but that thing is both fast and has stupid windboxes. Say what you will about shuttle loop but at least it doesn't have any stupid windboxes.

On another note I got some testing done today for Bthrow to Dash Attack and then I fell asleep midway. By midway I mean I was halfway through writing down the advantages for Bthrow v Mario, character #1, aha.

I want to start working on some sort of super awesome Ike guide that contains evvvverrrryyything but I really want that to be a community project. It'll let us put what we all know into one accessible place. If anyone would be interesting do let me know.

 

[san.]

I'm just tired of the powershields and stuff, so I only dash attack after bthrow for mixups or if the bthrow brings them offstage.

It may be more useful to start based on bad matchups/tier list. How are you doing the testing for bthrow-->Dash attack, Light? As far as I know, you can DI throws a little bit. small things may have an effect.

 

[YagamiLight]

I'm just tired of the powershields and stuff, so I only dash attack after bthrow for mixups or if the bthrow brings them offstage.

It may be more useful to start based on bad matchups/tier list. How are you doing the testing for bthrow-->Dash attack, Light? As far as I know, you can DI throws a little bit. small things may have an effect.

Yeah, all those random powershields are so annoying. I've started to use Dash Attack less and less after Bthrow.

On the bad match-ups note we should probably hold some sort of poll to determine who exactly our worst match-ups are (over the course of Brawl's life it has been Falco [who is no longer as dangerous as he once was thanks to teching the spike + throw combos], Olimar [Who just gradually progressed from 70-30 to 6-4/65-35 through match-up experience] and now I think most people you'll ask will say Meta Knight is the worst match-up). The way I think we'll go about doing it is I (or whoever else wants to) will post a list of every match-up ever considered to be a disadvantage for Ike and we'll proceed from there to sort them. Then we'll sort our advantages and whatnot. I'm not super fond of match-up ratios but it's a good step to getting a Ike guide done.

And, lastly, I am simply testing Bthrow to Dash Attack by having one controller be Ike and seeing when he can first shield and mashing jump (in frame by frame mode) on the other controller / holding shield when the hit the ground. Since Ike's Bthrow is not an SDIable hit nor does it place you into tumble you can't DI it or do anything until after you land. You can DI it once it places you into tumble. Other examples of Ike moves that don't place into tumble are Nair (until around 25%), Fair (similar percentages) and Jab 1 and 2.

 

[DMG]

1. I generally learn more from watching a good player use a character than using the character itself. Pikachu for example, I tried playing as him and I didn't learn crap lol. Watching Anther/Bear/ESAM/etc, I learned what they try to do, how long stuff lasts, character "mindgames" they try, etc.

2. How you learn differs from player to player.


There we go lol

 

[Palpi]

Pikachu is fairly hard to play. It depends on the character. Like GNW is rediculously easy to play, so I picked him up fast and learned his weaknesses from using him fast.

 

[bladeboys]

Happy New Year Guys !

 

[-RedX-]

No comment.

 

[PentaSalia]

isn't it chinese new years lol

oh OMG RED
DID U SEE ME LOSE To JOHN NUMBERS >_>
I WAS PLAYING THAT MU SO STUPID ADAKDKAMDAMC
felt like slapping myself 20 times over and over after i lost

btw,jash ditching you was messed up lol