Apex 2013 Smash 64 January 11-13th, 2013 Singles Bracket is now up

[Timotheus]

It should be like this:

before the matches start flip a coin,
heads = "tacna ruleset" means hyrule only
tail = "japan ruleset" means dreamland only

 

[Olikus]

wait so loser of the 1st game gets to ban a stage AND counterpick? **** it I'd throw the first game, get my ban in, counterpick to my best stage, and now its 1-1 but I've banned my worst stage. I think ballin misread (like I did initially) and assumed you said winner of first game gets a ban, while loser counterpicks. Loser gets ban and counterpick is way too much.

I honestly don't understand why we have the loser counterpick every single time anyway. Its like we are trying to rig the game to have closer matches, which is not the goal of a ruleset unless you are trying to bring in TV money like a professional sport. We should be aiming for the most competitive ruleset. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the 1st stage chosen by striking, and then split up the remaining game picks among the players EVENLY? So strike for first stage, then player A gets a stage, then player B gets a stage, then A, then B, etc. until the set is over.

its not like its that black and wait. player A allways win on that stage and player B allways wins on the other stage. skill weighs more than stage. And people can choose between all 4 stages to ban from. Its not like omg he banned congo. Now i cant beat him on any of the other 3 stages. now i lose on purpose so I can ban lmao. And if you cant win on any other stage than hyrule. well though life I guess.

 

[clubbadubba]

Of course you aren't guaranteed to win no matter what stage you play on, but it is certainly an advantage to play on a stage of your choosing. Allowing the first loser to pick the stage that is best for him in the second game, AND eliminate his worst stage for the final 1-5 games (depending on set length) is a bit extreme imo. All I'm saying is if its last years Apex GF, and I'm playing under your ruleset as boom, I am DEFINITELY throwing the first game so I can ban hyrule because the matchup is soooo much easier on every other stage (it was boom's falcon vs isai's link if you don't remember).

But more important than bashing your ruleset is my other point, which is WHY DO WE GIVE THE ADVANTAGE TO THE LOSER OF THE PREVIOUS GAME? Why not do it fairly? I know the only time it doesn't work out evenly is when there is no clincher, but it just seems like a strange way to do it and the only benefit I see is to attempt to keep the sets within 1 game at all times.

Let me throw this option out there. START the set on a stage of Player A's choosing, then go to a stage of Player B's choosing, etc., and use a neutral stage ONLY IN THE FINAL GAME OF THE SET (i.e. game 5 in a bo5, game 7 in a bo7, etc.). Thoughts?

And obvi none of this is for this years Apex.

Oh and timotheus's idea is hilarious. Only gets rid of stages no one cares about (peach's, congo), and will shorten tourney length because of japanese single game elimination. Its perfect lol

 

[malva00]

so if a Japanese SSB player wants to come, can he get help with his travel expenses? I think that is what the guy below is asking.

this is what someone asked me:
[6:57:54 AM] 貴公子: The management side of a convention heard that the airplane rent which is a part for one person is provided.
[5:39:45 AM] 貴公子: Although king funk had said that transportation-expenses provision was carried out by one person, does it know about the affair?

 

[Olikus]

Of course you aren't guaranteed to win no matter what stage you play on, but it is certainly an advantage to play on a stage of your choosing. Allowing the first loser to pick the stage that is best for him in the second game, AND eliminate his worst stage for the final 1-5 games (depending on set length) is a bit extreme imo. All I'm saying is if its last years Apex GF, and I'm playing under your ruleset as boom, I am DEFINITELY throwing the first game so I can ban hyrule because the matchup is soooo much easier on every other stage (it was boom's falcon vs isai's link if you don't remember).

But more important than bashing your ruleset is my other point, which is WHY DO WE GIVE THE ADVANTAGE TO THE LOSER OF THE PREVIOUS GAME? Why not do it fairly? I know the only time it doesn't work out evenly is when there is no clincher, but it just seems like a strange way to do it and the only benefit I see is to attempt to keep the sets within 1 game at all times.

Let me throw this option out there. START the set on a stage of Player A's choosing, then go to a stage of Player B's choosing, etc., and use a neutral stage ONLY IN THE FINAL GAME OF THE SET (i.e. game 5 in a bo5, game 7 in a bo7, etc.). Thoughts?

And obvi none of this is for this years Apex.

Oh and timotheus's idea is hilarious. Only gets rid of stages no one cares about (peach's, congo), and will shorten tourney length because of japanese single game elimination. Its perfect lol

but again if you can only win by playing on one stage you should adapt your game to the other stages rather than lose on purpose lol. And I only think your problem scenario suitsw to hyrule. Cus some players might only win if they camp on hyrule. I cant really see people ghet ruined theyr shot of winning if they have to play on DL instead of congo for instance.

So ofc the best way is to ban hyrule. But I think my solution can work okay. But hey im no TO just a suggestion.

 

[clubbadubba]

What? I'm not saying players can only win on one stage. I'm saying playing on a stage of your choosing is better than or equal to playing on a stage of the opponents choosing. In longer sets, raising your chances of winning by 5-10% in half of the games by banning your worst stage might be enough to pull out one extra win, and therefore the set. It just seems like your option is a way of lowering the number of games on hyrule, without taking into account the fairness issues it raises.

And again, I still don't really understand why the loser gets to counterpick at all. Anyone super attached to that method and wanna explain why it makes sense? It seems like we just jacked that from melee and keep riding with it without questioning the purpose.

 

[malva00]

this is another reason why tourneys SUCK. you can't play how you wanna play.

if you wanna "camp" for 40 mins on the right side of hyrule, you should be able to.

then again, playing against me might SUCK to someone who wants to play sector z or with handicap, but then that's kind of different <__<

 

[ballin4life]

allright Ill try to find out what you dont get.

You say if neither player has hyrule as their least favourite they play on hyrule. thats correct. What you mean by even if hyrule were banned? if neither player wanna ban hyrule they ban one of congo, DL or peach. So by my solution people can still play on hyrule, since it to close to the tournament to ban that stage. BUt since majority of the players want it banned its a ok change it will be banned in a set unless a hyrule lover lose the first game.

You get it now?

Now I'm more confused, but whatever. My overall point is pretty simple - going from Hyrule legal and no bans to allowing people to ban Hyrule is a huge change relative to the status quo. It's like 90% of the way to just banning Hyrule outright.

Why do I say this? Because I've played in multiple tourneys that allowed you to ban a stage. And against me at least most people always ban Hyrule. It's a huge difference from the status quo ruleset - from 50% of the games being on Hyrule to 0%.

That's why I'm saying it's effectively similar to banning Hyrule outright. With only 4 stages you barely have any strategic options when banning a stage anyway - just go ahead a ban Hyrule outright rather than trying some ruleset trick that accomplishes basically the same thing.

 

[Olikus]

What? I'm not saying players can only win on one stage. I'm saying playing on a stage of your choosing is better than or equal to playing on a stage of the opponents choosing. In longer sets, raising your chances of winning by 5-10% in half of the games by banning your worst stage might be enough to pull out one extra win, and therefore the set. It just seems like your option is a way of lowering the number of games on hyrule, without taking into account the fairness issues it raises.

And again, I still don't really understand why the loser gets to counterpick at all. Anyone super attached to that method and wanna explain why it makes sense? It seems like we just jacked that from melee and keep riding with it without questioning the purpose.

Maybe im biased cus I dont play link and can play my best on all the legal stages. But lets say I was bad at one stage. And another stage gets banned. And I as you say lose because the ban was enough to pull out the win since then I have to play on a stage I am bad at.

Then its my fault for not have practised enough on all the legal stages. Its a pretty huge john to say i lost because one stage got banned when its 4 legal stages. learn to play on all 4 if its 4 legal stages.

Maybe Im wrong but if you exclude hyrule I really cant say how a player would have won the set automaticly if he played on congo/DL/peach. But when one of those gets banned the other player gets such a uge advantage he ends up losing.


@ballin: no cus if a person lose the first match he can ban the other 3 stages. And if most people wanna ban hyrule its okay by me really. I just dont think its gonna happen before the tourney.

 

[ballin4life]

Yes, the main difference between the ban system and just banning Hyrule outright is that I get to ban a stage also. But that's pretty meh for me at least.

 

[Olikus]

the main difference is that all 4 stages can be banned instead of just hyrule. So if 2 hyrule fans faces each other or the hyrule fan loses the first match vs a non hyrule fan. Hyrule wont get banned.

But I agree that hyrule probably is the stage that will be banned the most. But thats because most people dont like hyrule in competitive play, rather than my rule suggestion.

 

[clubbadubba]

I don't have a problem with people banning stages. The problem is that only one of the players gets to ban a stage in your system. That is just not fair. If you want to do something where both players ban a stage, that is at least fair. My personal opinion is that we shouldn't have stage bans by players in set because we have so few stages already. But, if we did have stage bans, it would only be fair if each player got the same number of bans.

 

[Battlecow]

Yes, the main difference between the ban system and just banning Hyrule outright is that I get to ban a stage also. But that's pretty meh for me at least.

Why? They ban your favorite stage, you ban theirs. Seems fair to me. If you're much better on the stage that's way way different from the other stages, that's your affair.

@Isai: Yeah, tourneys do suck if you want to camp for 40 minutes or play on sector Z or whatever. For some things, like that, friendlies are better. But I like tourneys and in tourneys, I think a ruleset that's competitive and allows matches to finish is best.

 

[Olikus]

I don't have a problem with people banning stages. The problem is that only one of the players gets to ban a stage in your system. That is just not fair. If you want to do something where both players ban a stage, that is at least fair. My personal opinion is that we shouldn't have stage bans by players in set because we have so few stages already. But, if we did have stage bans, it would only be fair if each player got the same number of bans.

well then we should agree to disagree. As i mentioned 10000 times allready. I only see the unfair part if you are hyrule fanboy and cant play on any other stage. Its not that big deal if one of the 4 stages disapear. Unless you are cant play on all stages which is your own fault. But yeah its only my opinion, and you can choose what ruleset you want.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

ALEX, increase the cap?!?!?

 

[killa k]

Why is there a cap anyway? Is it to shorten the tournament length?

 

[Nintendude]

I'll talk to Strife tonight about increasing the cap. It shouldn't be a problem. btw anyone with megavolt's contact info - tell him to register. Last time he forgot and it was a bit of a hassle getting him into the bracket.

 

[Battlecow]

Has that guy ever remembered anything? Lol

 

[LLDL]

Once and knitephox reach our final form, aint non of y'all niqas touchin the fox

 

[Alex Strife]

well im meeting with staff at around 9pm so yea. Expect an answer soon.

 

[Nintendude]

We've officially been granted 16 more spots!

 

[Alex Strife]

Give us time to add the 16 more spots we will have it updated ASAP

 

[ballin4life]

Why? They ban your favorite stage, you ban theirs. Seems fair to me. If you're much better on the stage that's way way different from the other stages, that's your affair.

But there's already only 4 stages! Might as well just go all the way to 100% DL. Or alternating DL and CJ.

I never said it was unfair btw.



@Alex/Nintendude - any thoughts on what happens if the additional 16 spots get filled? Also, I assume that the bracket will just have one extra round of "play in" games? Will there be some kind of seeding system?

 

[TANK64]

Alex You Da Man.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Give us time to add the 16 more spots we will have it updated ASAP

oh thank you

 

[SSB64-Jel]

I'll talk to Strife tonight about increasing the cap. It shouldn't be a problem. btw anyone with megavolt's contact info - tell him to register. Last time he forgot and it was a bit of a hassle getting him into the bracket.

I sent him a text about it a week ago he said he would get on it lol. I will send him a text again.

Also thank you to Alex for giving us 16 more spots. If we hit the new cap that means we have 80 players NICE!!.

I think we should just use The Official 64BR Recommended Ruleset for Apex with it being less then a month away and if it does not work out this year then the 64BR should talk it over and see what will be best for the following year.

 

[Alex Strife]

Once we hit 80 that's it guys.

 

[KnitePhox]

thanks for hosting 64 and increasing the cap, alex!

 

[Battlecow]

Thanks for the increase, mad nice of you

looking like it's gonna be the biggest NA 64 tourney ever. Get hype.

 

[TANK64]

And most importantly, with the most talent.

Too bad SK and A$ can't go :/

Those guys are pretty good at Super Smash Brothers.

 

[Nintendude]

Damn,neither of them can go? I thought Star King said he was going.

 

[asianaussie]

heh, you believed SK would actually go to a smash tournament

Spoiler

this rather obvious taunting probably won't motivate him to go, but hey, it won
t actually hurt

 

[KnitePhox]

aa for epicks2014

 

[Kefit]

so if a Japanese SSB player wants to come, can he get help with his travel expenses? I think that is what the guy below is asking.

this is what someone asked me:
[6:57:54 AM] 貴公子: The management side of a convention heard that the airplane rent which is a part for one person is provided.
[5:39:45 AM] 貴公子: Although king funk had said that transportation-expenses provision was carried out by one person, does it know about the affair?

Getting a JP player at Apex would be fairly incredible. This here appears to be machine translated; can you get me the original JP text?

 

[The Star King]

Damn,neither of them can go? I thought Star King said he was going.

IDK if I'm going or not. But I think I probably won't for the tournament because it's on Friday. I might be able to just show up on the weekend to play friendlies though.

Also I suck on controller so w/e

 

[KnitePhox]

IDK if I'm going or not. But I think I probably won't for the tournament because it's on Friday. I might be able to just show up on the weekend to play friendlies though.

Also I suck on controller so w/e

bring a usb keyboard so we can all see your TRUE POWER

Spoiler

unless clubba doesn't let a keyboard in his car ROFL

 

[SSB64-Jel]

Cant wait to play and see everyone again.

Guys who is down to meet up Thursday the 10th we got to get some type of smash fest going.

PM me with your info like phone numbers and stuff so we dont wait to the last minute.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Where are you staying at, Jel?

I'll probably be staying somewhere near the venue. Haven't decided yet.

My USA number is 813 732 7447

 

[malva00]

Getting a JP player at Apex would be fairly incredible. This here appears to be machine translated; can you get me the original JP text?

the only Japanese he used that would help is 飛行機代

he trusts the MACHINE too much

 

[Kefit]

飛行機代 is airfare, but you already figured that out.

Feel free to hit me up if he makes contact with you again. I can understand and read Japanese pretty well, though I'm quite bad at using it myself.