Apex 2013 Smash 64 January 11-13th, 2013 Singles Bracket is now up

[The Star King]

Then yes were arguing semantics.

When someone says keyboard is gay because it alters the physics of the game, we all understand what they're saying. You guys just take **** too literally.

No matter how you say it, doing something with keyboard that's not achievable on console = altering game play.

I don't see why it's inconceivable that Killer's keyboard method might allows him to input rolls on the first frame possible after shield stun is gone, where consistently reacting that fast with controller isn't possible.

Just my guess as to how he does it. But I clearly haven't taken the "ssb64 physics" crash course like you guys have. Either way keyboard is gay.

Saying "altering other aspects of gameplay" reaaaaalllly made it sound like you meant, you know, actually altering game mechanics. Either that's actually what you meant and you're trying to backtrack, or you are very bad at wording things, or we really do take things too literally.

...But still kind of dumb then because using, say, macros to escape shield stun on first possible frame wouldn't be keyboard specific. Sorry Sheer, you ALMOST got away with that.

 

[Battlecow]

I mean, maybe he could mash faster than us and then roll consistently a couple of frames earlier? That doesn't seem impossible. Maybe I should start mashing roll faster; I've always assumed that the Sheerldbreaks were INESCAPABLE.

Keyboard definitely doesn't, like, lower the amount of shield stun you get, though. It can't change the game's physics on like a coding level or whatever, it just lets you press buttons somewhat faster.

I watch a LOT of melee+64 videos and I've always thought in the back of my mind that I'd be like the best commentator ever. But like most things, it's probably a lot harder than it looks, and like most things, I'm probably not nearly as good as I think I'll be.

Guess I'll commentate over an isai match that I don't remember and UPLOAD IT once I have a free minute and I figure out how to do that technology-wise. Do you need like a video of me, or will my voice doing commentary be enough? To give you an idea of my physical presence, an entire continent of 64 players once changed their smashboards avatars to a picture of my face (that's a joke)

If we do get a melee commentator for 64 (I don't really support that) it should be a hype man like dogy and not a details guy like wobbles. Wobbles is one of the best commentators ever because he knows a ton about melee, he's great at articulating it, and he's a funny guy. Only the funny guy part would transfer to 64.

64 commentary should also be different from melee commentary; it's not as fast, for one thing, and there aren't as many technical details that need to be pointed out (there are some, of course, including some pretty subtle ones and even some crazy subtle ones; I imagine that boom would get things I wouldn't, that I'd get things that a player with only a year or so of experience wouldn't, and that this theoretical decent player would get things that wobbles wouldn't; nevertheless, the main thing is going to be keeping a hype and non-stupid commentary flow going)

 

[The Star King]

Yeah I bet a ton of people think that lol. Illusory superiority, psychology blahblah

 

[SheerMadness]

I shouldn't have used the word physics. That was obviously poor wording.

But yes what do you think is easier to spam (while holding shield):

A button on a keyboard or a certain direction with a control stick?

Thinking about it that way it's not hard to see why Killer can roll out of shield stun faster than anyone on a 64 controller. Keyboard again gives the player an unfair advantage they wouldn't normally have on console.

And I never said any of this was keyboard specific. All I said was that keyboard is gay because it allows it. And pretty much every non keyboard user agrees with me.

 

[The Star King]

If you meant mashing you wouldn't have said something like:

I don't see why it's inconceivable that Killer's keyboard method might allows him to input rolls on the first frame possible after shield stun is gone, where consistently reacting that fast with controller isn't possible.

Just my guess as to how he does it.

You've been backtracking since the beginning. I'm done I guess.

 

[SheerMadness]

I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

I can't see the kid's keyboard while he plays so all I can do is guess. Maybe he times that **** perfectly instead of mashing (very doubtful but possible). If so props to him, but it would still be easier to time on a keyboard than a controller. Hitting a button on a keyboard is a hell of a lot quicker than pushing the control stick to the left or right.

Star Noob you're just mad because you take **** too literally. And you're a keyboard noob.

 

[kys]

To give you an idea of my physical presence, an entire continent of 64 players once changed their smashboards avatars to a picture of my face (that's a joke)

If we do get a melee commentator for 64 (I don't really support that) it should be a hype man like dogy and not a details guy like wobbles. Wobbles is one of the best commentators ever because he knows a ton about melee, he's great at articulating it, and he's a funny guy. Only the funny guy part would transfer to 64.

Lol, I don't see why that's a joke when it actually happened.

The appeal of a melee commentator is for the melee views. Not for the purpose of getting more players in our community, but to get respect.

Commentary seems like it would be really hard to take beyond the whole play by play thing. I have serious respect for the guys who are really talented.

 

[Nintendude]

I feel like I could do a good job commentating if I had a little bit of practice, though I think I'd best be paired with someone who's more hype. Me + hamburglar could make a good team.

Regardless though, I think the commentators need to be people that actually play the game. I think it looks terrible when a commentator asks the other commentator elementary questions about the game.

 

[Battlecow]

I can be a HYPE MAN

battlecow + nintendude

the looks and the brains

It's destiny man

"Banze's experience with the Brazilian random stage list is really being showcased here--he's using an interesting variant of the normal flat stage spacing to get a lot of successful under-platform pokes with--"

"THAT TAIL! THAT TAIL! GIVE HIM THE TAIL BRO! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!"

"The defensive up-B works out for him once again. Interesting how much South American players seem to like that--I know Ricky's a big fan, and while Sao Paolo isn't really a kaillera scene it's possible that--"

"BRO USE THE TAIL AGAIN! BRO NOT THE FOOT THE TAIL! DANG BRO HOW MANY TIMES I GOTTA TELL YOU? THAT NONSENSE DON'T FLY IN 'MURIKA!"

"That exchange looked like a very standard up-air combo but one complicating factor there even against sub-par DI like--"

"BOOOOOOOOORN IN THE USA, I WAS- BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORN IN THE USA! I WAS-"

 

[ballin4life]

Guess I'll commentate over an isai match that I don't remember and UPLOAD IT once I have a free minute and I figure out how to do that technology-wise. Do you need like a video of me, or will my voice doing commentary be enough? To give you an idea of my physical presence, an entire continent of 64 players once changed their smashboards avatars to a picture of my face (that's a joke)

This is either going to be great or it's going to be the greatest example ever of someone trying too hard.


Also I'm forever citing that Sheer argument to PROVE that y'all are the ones who never let arguments go, not me.

 

[The Star King]

Both sides don't let go you buttface

EDIT: Except I actually did

so pwned

edit because I totally thought this was the social thread and you were refering to you vs Battlecow on the citizen duty **** >_>

 

[Han Solo]

I'm going to record some commentary on some matches. They'll be up by tonight.

 

[ballin4life]

I am excited for people recording commentary. Much more interesting IMO than game sounds.

Just in the back of my mind I'm thinking it would be weird to get HYPED over something that isn't live

 

[The Star King]

Just in the back of my mind I'm thinking it would be weird to get HYPED over something that isn't live

Yeah don't try too hard people

that would be a prime indication

 

[TANK64]

Don't worry Sheer. It was bloody obvious what you meant, but THESE people seem to get caught up on one word for the sake of debating.

If you can't do it on console, with a controller, then you can't do it.

Keyboard DI is not legit, and should never be legal on console. That goes for any macro controller shenanigans also.

Hell, hori DI can get annoying, and I'm a liberal for god sakes. But you know that was actually given the blessing by Nintendo, made for the 64 and been around since the dawn of Asians.

I might slap a ***** if I saw killer di on console

I don't usually condone violence but I will make an exception in this case.

I would have to slap said ***** also.

 

[Han Solo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPR3Jo0nv1k&feature=context-cha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znmsv2Ts4xk&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqzk9Ee8LFs&feature=youtu.be

 

[B Link]

well I will be honest

I do not want people that curse.

I want people that make me think PROFESSIONAL

aka I want clips

Aw no surprise tigerbombz commentary allowed then

I hate sounding like such a tigerbombz fan boy but his commentary was really entertaining to my immature, gangsta taste in commentary.

 

[SSB64-Jel]

If me and Kefit go. Kefit should do some commentating this time. He does good with his LPs and other stuff he has on his youtube.

 

[kys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPR3Jo0nv1k&feature=context-cha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znmsv2Ts4xk&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqzk9Ee8LFs&feature=youtu.be

You should talk about the why of what's going on, not just the what.

Example: "When Pika gets in a grab, it's over". Tell everyone why. Apply what you see in the match to general smash principles (like options in situations, matchup stuff, etc.). It should help fill any dead time. If you know the history of players, you can apply that too.

Your voice needs more hype. It's pretty flat and monotone. I would suspect that has to do with you commentating on a match that's already happened. For something like Grand Finals I'm sure it would be easier to convey emotion.

You articulate well and you don't speak like you have a mouth full of marbles. No distracting accent either. Good stuff there.

I know you posted these for Alex and you probably don't give a crap what I think, but in case you wanted some constructive criticism, here it is.

 

[meowmeowrainbowkitty]

This is how I picture BCow and Nintendude commentating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XqI172ENzI

 

[asianaussie]

i forgot how much i liked dandan's accent

 

[LLDL]

Been reading a few pages, and I'm going to say right now, using alternate controllers is legal at this tournament as long as it does not allow you to do something inhumanly possibly.

To be more specific, there are adapters out there for many different types of controllers > N64 console. There are SNES, Gamecube, PS1, PS2, third party N64 controllers in the shape of other controllers (for example an xbox 360 shaped n64 controller). These are all legal as long as they do not have turbo function or button combination programs/presets or anything like that.

In the FGC, people use anything ranging from standard controllers, dual modded fight sticks, adapters to convert from ps3 to xbox 360 and vise versa, and I completely agree with the concept and think that it is all fine. It's all about how comfortable your controller is. Some people learned to play Marvel on an Xbox 360t. Why should they go to a ps3 tournament a perform worse because they are unfamiliar with the controller? They shouldn't. So, they take matters into their own hands and get an adapter, dual mod, whatever is necessary. Why should smash be any different?

Some people learned to play this game on the Wii virtual console. Some learned it on their computer with Project 64 and used a keyboard or their Xbox 360 controller. Learning the original N64 controller is difficult enough, and although that is "the way the game is supposed to be played", I see no reason you cannot accommodate yourself.

So for you Project 64 players, if you find a way to get Keyboard > N64 console, or Xbox 360 controller > N64 console (Neither of these exist right now I don't think) more power to you! As long as there is no turbo or mapping combinations to a single button, you're good.

 

[TANK64]

^^I agree with most of everything you said, but that wasn't really the discussion. The only problem I see is this

using alternate controllers is legal at this tournament as long as it does not allow you to do something inhumanly possibly.

You say this.

But then you say this:

if you find a way to get Keyboard > N64 console [... ] more power to you! As long as there is no turbo or mapping combinations to a single button, you're good.

(If it works like it does online) then keyboard it will allow DI that is inhumanly possible. Would this still be legal?

I've played with several controls and don't see a problem with the others. The hori is a DI advantage (but slight compared to kb), it just makes it easy to have super pro DI, but sill humanly possible DI, and that's been legal in tourneys forever. Gamecube/xbox controllers are also super fine for 64. It's just the keyboard that brings problems... (and I imagine harder to catch macros).

Just my two cents.

 

[Han Solo]

kys, thanks for the advice. That's what I was looking for.



Also, someone should make a "Get Hype" video for smash 64 for apex. Wouldn't that be great?

 

[Nintendude]

Controllers are inherently unequal because they're all different, so I don't have a problem with keyboards or Horis. I'm gonna crack up if someone actually shows up with a keyboard.

 

[KnitePhox]

Also, someone should make a "Get Hype" video for smash 64 for apex. Wouldn't that be great?

i think it would be great, but i doubt such a video's effectiveness to bring more people into smash 64 than whats already on youtube; yet, who knows?

 

[The Star King]

keyboard does not do DI that is inhumanly possible. It's not much worse than **** DI Hori, if at all.

especially if you set it to a reasonable range and not 100

but IDK how that would work on console

Have you guys played Miyagi? Worse than any keyboard DI I've seen, with a Hori.

IDK why I'm talking about this since likely nobody will actually show up with a keyboard but it's annoying how people are always determined to hate on keyboard

 

[Battlecow]

Have you guys played Miyagi? Worse than any keyboard DI I've seen, with a Hori.

IDK why I'm talking about this since likely nobody will actually show up with a keyboard but it's annoying how people are always determined to hate on keyboard

You've played him? ****ing hilarious. I'm actually afraid that if people realized he was using a hori with standard range+deadzone, horis would get banned

on the plus side, that DI requires both hands and it takes him about a year to get them back in the right position after he DI's something

And his normal n64 controller DI is pretty ****ing nuts too

 

[KnitePhox]

keyboard does not do DI that is inhumanly possible. It's not much worse than **** DI Hori, if at all.

especially if you set it to a reasonable range and not 100

but IDK how that would work on console

Have you guys played Miyagi? Worse than any keyboard DI I've seen, with a Hori.

IDK why I'm talking about this since likely nobody will actually show up with a keyboard but it's annoying how people are always determined to hate on keyboard

Last apex I brought a laptop with an adapter for any keyboard players, and I thought koro was going to play some keyboard but didn't. I ended up playing a German kb player though I don't member his name

I got a mechanical keyboard recently and jesus **** the key presses are so easy for playing games and typing, its like I can type and react faster with this...was thinking bout bringing it along with the recording setup specifically for kb players but unless someone asks I won't

I can only imagine killer di on a mechanical...

 

[Izuhu]

Mechanical keyboards sound like sex when you type on them.

 

[prisonchild]

it seems to perverse to mix controllers vs keyboards in a formal tourney... keyboards should stick to emus imo

 

[Battlecow]

The problem with the KB-controller thing is that it can take a while to coax your controller to "acceptable" settings, and even those will often be noticeably different from console.

 

[The Star King]

^You mean on emulator? Of course we're gonna play on console for the tournament, we're just talking about keyboard->n64 adapters if they hypothetically exist.

But I don't think they do so this discussion is pointless in the end lol

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

if you really want a kb adapter, then you should ask the raphnet guy lolol

 

[KnitePhox]

if you really want a kb adapter, then you should ask the raphnet guy lolol

noooooo, dont give them ideas...


inb4boom4kpost

 

[Battlecow]

^You mean on emulator? Of course we're gonna play on console for the tournament, we're just talking about keyboard->n64 adapters if they hypothetically exist.

But I don't think they do so this discussion is pointless in the end lol

Yeah no I was responding to Kphox's post

I'm a big fan of KB-n64 adapters being legal

 

[KnitePhox]

it was intended for freindlies, bcow. i wouldn't want emu in an OFFICIAL tourney like APEX. if a kb-->console adapter or mod works...holy **** best.

might be really easy or insanely hard...i imagine just the joystick part would be tough to setup as buttons and keys are fundamentally just switches

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

if you really want a kb adapter, then you should ask the raphnet guy lolol

Well I do want to get to 8 this time

 

[clubbadubba]

Keyboards in real tournies? That's a bad idea. I'd fight harder against this if I was going to play in the tourney at Apex, but I'm not so whatever. If I had to ever play a keyboard player in a real tourney though, I might forfeit, no joke. Seems like no one else is super upset about this though, so maybe its just me. I just don't want to play against someone else who has an inherent advantage over me based on their controller. I'm all for banning hori's too btw. Keep the playing field even, n64 controllers only.

 

[M!nt]

That's a stupid idea, It's not even that much of an advantage.