Apex 2012 Info Dump!

[Smooth Criminal]

Top notch play in Melee GFs. Kinda made my brain mooshy, but that's to be expected.

And I agree with Jonas one hundred percent. May not have been my cup of tea, but they're not there to pander to us. They are there to win.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Jonas]

Do you really think Armada's YLink vs. Shiek is that good? I've only ever seen his YLink fighting Jiggs, so I wouldn't know.

Armada would obviously change back to Peach. Even if he had to let the second match go, he would still get to counterpick back to Sheik in 3rd and 5th games.

 

[kevo]

I'm waiting for the blog post by Mango where he will claim that he "wasn't trying" and was "playing for the crowd" and how he "COULD have won"

 

[ajp_anton]

Armada also came 2nd at SR4 (the last Smashers Reunion BTW, go to the next one this summer in Norway). He lost to Calle W.

And why should Armada play Peach in order to "truly" become the best? So how has Mango been the best for so long while using Fox, Falco, Puff, and a few others?

 

[Charlesz]

PLay to win. I'm shocked that some of you guys still don't understand this. ****ing morons.

 

[t3h Icy]

Mango's blog said he could have easily 3-0'd Armada.

Maybe he got it backwards?

 

[onionchowder]

Armada would obviously change back to Peach. Even if he had to let the second match go, he would still get to counterpick back to Sheik in 3rd and 5th games.

Right. So after losing a match, if Armada stays YLink, HBox switches to Shiek. After winning a Shiek vs. YLink, HBox switches to Puff to prevent Shiek vs. Peach from even happening. If Puff vs. YLink is a toss-up, but Puff vs. Peach or Shiek vs. YLink is a win for HBox, then he will end up winning through the counterpick wars.

Of course, this is all assuming that HBox's Shiek can beat Armada's YLink.

 

[john!]

Because he would get bodied badly if he whipped out a pocket Sheik against Armada.

Seriously people, why are you blaming the players for not entertaining you? This is an international tournament with thousands of dollars on the line, and the players used whatever characters they deemed would get them the best chances of winning. They weren't there to entertain you.

theoretically, i bet every stream viewer would have donated one dollar to view an exciting grand finals. that would give grand prize money to both players!

 

[Atlus8]

8 minutes is waaaay to long for a match! 6 minutes should be the new standard! Also, can't be upset with the way HBOX plays! Play to win!

Biggest story of the tourny was Javi! No doubt about that! Sponsoring every cent for him was worth it!

 

[Thino]

DONT you guys think that the players themselves have a better idea than us of who they can beat with which character?

I mean its their decision and their money is at stake, unless we do what john! just mentioned, then you would see plenty of low tier GFs

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

how does it feel that armada is now, unquestionably, the best player in the world?

also mr battlecow agreed to give me 1000 dollars if armada won apex. unfortunately he copped out by not logging into msn, but according to a message he sent me here on swf he still owes me 1000 dollars.

 

[Charlesz]

mango's blog said he could have easily 3-0'd armada.

Maybe he got it backwards?

link please lol

 

[t3h Icy]

http://www.genesisdbr.com/blog/?p=19

Like I said though, I was already really upset with myself, and recovered awful my last stock. To recap the set, I felt like I could have EASILY won if I just hit the brakes A TINYYYY BIT. I’m not mad at myself though, I’m actually really glad with the end result. If Armada gave me free stocks ( 0-60 percent ) and suicided I GURANTEEEE I would 3-0 2-stocks.

 

[Jonas]

Right. So after losing a match, if Armada stays YLink, HBox switches to Shiek. After winning a Shiek vs. YLink, HBox switches to Puff to prevent Shiek vs. Peach from even happening. If Puff vs. YLink is a toss-up, but Puff vs. Peach or Shiek vs. YLink is a win for HBox, then he will end up winning through the counterpick wars.

Of course, this is all assuming that HBox's Shiek can beat Armada's YLink.

The winner of the preceding match usually has to pick character first. If memory serves, Armada won the first game (correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm really starting to doubt this looolll), which would make his counterpicks in the next match dependent on Hbox' character picks.

 

[Habefiet]

I'm waiting for the blog post by Mango where he will claim that he "wasn't trying" and was "playing for the crowd" and how he "COULD have won"

Doubt it. MAYBE something about not trying because he doesn't care anymore or some fiddly whatnot, but I think he knows that won't cut it for most people this time. And I'm sure that even he can't pretend that diving off the stage because he was about to get 3-stocked by HBox constitutes "playing for the crowd."

I think he shoulda gone C. Falc versus Armada. I'm not saying it would have worked--I honestly think he still would have lost, given how Armada was playing today--but I think it would have helped his chances. Certainly after Game 2 he could have tried it--his Fox wasn't working for him.

I hope Javi and Armada have a recorded exhibition in some post-tourney friendlies because I'd love to see that. Seriously, start the next good player fund now, for Javi.

 

[Jonas]

I'm curious as to Mango's meaning of "playing to the crowd" if it means losing losers' final to Hbox

 

[wiito]

Armada also came 2nd at SR4 (the last Smashers Reunion BTW, go to the next one this summer in Norway). He lost to Calle W.

Yeah... ALso I don't know if Armada went to Renaissance of Smash 3, can't find any information

 

[onionchowder]

The winner of the preceding match usually has to pick character first. If memory serves, Armada won the first game, which would make his counterpicks in the next match dependent on Hbox' character picks.

If Armada wins, he has to choose his character before HBox does. If Armada stays YLink, then HBox has the ability to switch to Shiek to force Shiek vs. YLink. If Armada wants to switch to Peach, the HBox can stay Jiggs.

The idea is that HBox is never forced to play Shiek vs. Peach, but Armada is forced to choose between Jiggs vs. Peach or Shiek vs. YLink.

 

[Charlesz]

That blog was from Genesis 2 LOL

Nice fail

 

[t3h Icy]

And he played exactly as he described he could; he slowed down, didn't SD, etc. What difference does it make if it's at a later tournament?

 

[ajp_anton]

If Armada wins, he has to choose his character before HBox does. If Armada stays YLink, then HBox has the ability to switch to Shiek to force Shiek vs. YLink. If Armada wants to switch to Peach, the HBox can stay Jiggs.

The idea is that HBox is never forced to play Shiek vs. Peach, but Armada is forced to choose between Jiggs vs. Peach or Shiek vs. YLink.

Though I'd say that YLink vs Puff is equally in Armada's favor as Puff vs Peach is in HBox's. Whoever wins the first match has the biggest chance of winning.
Do we even know HBox's Sheik would win against YLink?

 

[t3h Icy]

Just for reference, Armada's YL was giving PC's Fox trouble.

 

[Luma]

armada went to RoS3, lost to him in teams back then

 

[R3N0]

Thanks dmbrandon!
Thanks Apex people!
Thanks venue!
Thanks prog!
Thanks everyone!!

 

[alejandroidex]

biggest story of the tourny was javi! No doubt about that! Sponsoring every cent for him was worth it!

thank you atlus for all your support and for believing in mexico scene. Thank you very much atlus!!!

 

[TokiDoki]

yea thanks for bringing javi atlus!

 

[t3h Icy]

I think with his performance today that people may help him out to come to more international events! :D

 

[alejandroidex]

I think with his performance today that people may help him out to come to more international events! :D

Him and other great smashers from here. For example: Tuga, EX, .jpg, etc.

 

[LLDL]

How good are: Wox, boba, Rojo W compared to the top Mexican players, I knew about them before Javi and Tuga.

I didn't know axe went falco lol. I'm willing to give him credit that he could win in falco dittos tbh. I still don't know why axe didn't go pika ill have to ask him about it later

StriCNYN3 beat Axe's Pikachu, they didnt do falco dittos.

 

[Battlecow]

how does it feel that armada is now, unquestionably, the best player in the world?

also mr battlecow agreed to give me 1000 dollars if armada won apex. unfortunately he copped out by not logging into msn, but according to a message he sent me here on swf he still owes me 1000 dollars.

Just to be clear, he's joking/trolling. I offered him a $50 bet, and he did not accept.

I was confident that mango and peepee and hbox would all be capable of defeating him--and I was wrong. He's now indisputably gained the title of Melee World Champion.

Of course, I hope to god that PP and/or mango will train up and sock it to him at the next tourney, and I believe that they're capable of it. Nonetheless- congrats to him.

And anyone mad about the GF's is trolling, they played to win, as they should have. Good **** to Hbox for beating Mango, and GREAT **** to Javi for taking out PP. Dude's a legend.

I am so ****ing pissed that I only got to watch as far as the first stock of PP-Javi >:-(. I waited the entire weekend for that ****, and during the only 2-hour period I didn't have free... Owell.

 

[Dyna]

How good are: Wox, boba, Rojo W compared to the top Mexican players, I knew about them before Javi and Tuga.

Wox and Rojo are top notch players, not so sure about Boba, but he's legit but cannot compare to Rojo and Wox.

Compared to the Twins, Wox and Rojo could be even faster and flashier, but they lack the proper experience in order to be considered top players, but they are superb for sure.

 

[wiito]

armada went to RoS3, lost to him in teams back then

Do you remember what place Armada got in singles? Can't find anything

 

[KishPrime]

Wow, really enjoyed this tournament.

The big story, to me, is that Armada looks like he's got the field outclassed right now. He can beat anyone at their own game and style, can field multiple characters in Top-5 matchups and win, and it's rare that he even loses a round. It's amazing how smoothly he can take down top players. I never saw a time where he was out of control in a match, even when he was losing. He was utterly dominant throughout, showing mastery of every single phase of the game along the way, and despite Hbox's late run, I think it's foolish to try and argue that he's not far out in front right now.

Major props to Hbox for riding his style out, but it's pretty clear that he's currently stuck. I applaud and enjoy his style, but the fact that he's hitting the same wall over and over again suggests that it's time to put major work into some other options. I don't think this matchup is in his favor and it's to his credit that he was able to pull out as much as he did. I'm in agreement with some of the posters who question why Hbox can't switch characters on his own counterpick, since Armada is locked into whoever he chooses. Obviously, if he doesn't have other characters, this isn't an option, but Armada learned YL to counter him, so obviously he'd have to do the same thing in reverse.

Also why doesn't hbox punch his opponents during grabs? Drives me crazy, especially considering his style he should be sucking up that extra damage. The off-chance you'll kill someone with bad-DI from a forward throw isn't worth the 25-30% he was just giving up every round.

Javi ran circles around PP and Hax. That was also an amazing display. But then he got wrecked by Mango's Falco in the semi-friendlies and was clearly clueless about the Puff matchup. This is a guy showing classic signs of a player who hasn't reached his full potential yet. With a bit more experience, I'll be shocked if he doesn't make at least Top 3 at the next major, and he may be the only person other than Hbox who has a shot to take out Armada anytime soon. Hbox is going to be a wall for him for at least a few more tournaments, though.

Mango is a fascinating watch. He's clearly always going to be a major factor as long as he plays, and plays as creatively as anyone can play, but remains fairly rigid and unable to adapt to his opponent. It's amazing that he can have so much talent and be literally good enough on that alone to completely blow away players placing as high as 4th in this tournament, yet be so trapped in the mental phase of the game.

People said not to complain about commentators, but come on guys. Don't apologize for the game - the diversity of ways the game can be played is what makes it a beautiful game. Yeah, it's a mindscrew to watch that matchup for an hour straight, but that doesn't mean you have to turn on the entire game and try to make apologies for it. That puts on a bad show to anyone who isn't a diehard.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

@Battlecow

I added you on MSN and I stayed there for 3 hours but you never logged in yourself.
We said we'd make up how to pay each other etc there. You made a 50 dollar bet, but I upped it to 1000 dollars, and you agreed. We had both already agreed to it. The bet was on, and now that I've won, you owe me 1000 dollars.
If you log into MSN now I can simply tell you where to send the money.

And also-I doubt those cheap ****s PP/mango will afford coming here after they lost so much money to him to try to prove that they're better. Not like they'll have the balls to anyway. Armada is the best player in the world, and it will remain that way until flopmerica grows a pair and gets over here.

 

[john!]

Mango is a fascinating watch. He's clearly always going to be a major factor as long as he plays, and plays as creatively as anyone can play, but remains fairly rigid and unable to adapt to his opponent. It's amazing that he can have so much talent and be literally good enough on that alone to completely blow away players placing as high as 4th in this tournament, yet be so trapped in the mental phase of the game.

sometimes you say some mildly insightful things, but... really?

 

[Habefiet]

Wow, really enjoyed this tournament.

The big story, to me, is that Armada looks like he's got the field outclassed right now. He can beat anyone at their own game and style, can field multiple characters in Top-5 matchups and win, and it's rare that he even loses a round. It's amazing how smoothly he can take down top players. I never saw a time where he was out of control in a match, even when he was losing. He was utterly dominant throughout, showing mastery of every single phase of the game along the way, and despite Hbox's late run, I think it's foolish to try and argue that he's not far out in front right now.

Major props to Hbox for riding his style out, but it's pretty clear that he's currently stuck. I applaud and enjoy his style, but the fact that he's hitting the same wall over and over again suggests that it's time to put major work into some other options. I don't think this matchup is in his favor and it's to his credit that he was able to pull out as much as he did. I'm in agreement with some of the posters who question why Hbox can't switch characters on his own counterpick, since Armada is locked into whoever he chooses. Obviously, if he doesn't have other characters, this isn't an option, but Armada learned YL to counter him, so obviously he'd have to do the same thing in reverse.

Also why doesn't hbox punch his opponents during grabs? Drives me crazy, especially considering his style he should be sucking up that extra damage. The off-chance you'll kill someone with bad-DI from a forward throw isn't worth the 25-30% he was just giving up every round.

Javi ran circles around PP and Hax. That was also an amazing display. But then he got wrecked by Mango's Falco in the semi-friendlies and was clearly clueless about the Puff matchup. This is a guy showing classic signs of a player who hasn't reached his full potential yet. With a bit more experience, I'll be shocked if he doesn't make at least Top 3 at the next major, and he may be the only person other than Hbox who has a shot to take out Armada anytime soon. Hbox is going to be a wall for him for at least a few more tournaments, though.

Mango is a fascinating watch. He's clearly always going to be a major factor as long as he plays, and plays as creatively as anyone can play, but remains fairly rigid and unable to adapt to his opponent. It's amazing that he can have so much talent and be literally good enough on that alone to completely blow away players placing as high as 4th in this tournament, yet be so trapped in the mental phase of the game.

People said not to complain about commentators, but come on guys. Don't apologize for the game - the diversity of ways the game can be played is what makes it a beautiful game. Yeah, it's a mindscrew to watch that matchup for an hour straight, but that doesn't mean you have to turn on the entire game and try to make apologies for it. That puts on a bad show to anyone who isn't a diehard.

If this post were a living entity, I would shake its hand and thank it for being it.

I agree, is what I guess I'm saying.

 

[Charlie G]

Mango is a fascinating watch. He's clearly always going to be a major factor as long as he plays, and plays as creatively as anyone can play, but remains fairly rigid and unable to adapt to his opponent.

From what I've heard from top players (armada included iirc) Mango is better than anyone at figuring out his opponent and adjusting to/abusing their habits
It's more likely that he's rigid in that he refuses to change his own style of play- if he can't win his way, then he's sure as dammnit not going to change for anyone. And he has that little arrogance to consistently believe that he can

 

[St. Viers]

Are there brackets/results up anywhere?

 

[commonyoshi]

And also-I doubt those cheap ****s PP/mango will afford coming here after they lost so much money to him to try to prove that they're better. Not like they'll have the balls to anyway. Armada is the best player in the world, and it will remain that way until flopmerica grows a pair and gets over here.

Lol, no one from Europe did well except Armada. Stop mooching off his success.

 

[Habefiet]

From what I've heard from top players (armada included iirc) Mango is better than anyone at figuring out his opponent and adjusting to/abusing their habits
It's more likely that he's rigid in that he refuses to change his own style of play- if he can't win his way, then he's sure as dammnit not going to change for anyone. And he has that little arrogance to consistently believe that he can

Perhaps rather than unable, he's unwilling, then, is what you're saying? I can see that.

Also, bracket here: http://ajpanton.se/apex2012.gif