Anti-mosque protests on the rise, say Muslim advocates

[Teran]

Is that Rici?

I dunno all those namechanges make me lose track of who the hell you are.

 

[Pluvia]

Your plans wont work in the real world Teran. And your arguments a bit flawed, here's your argument but with some words changed:

Pity the gays then.

Also, I don't see why we're even arguing in terms of freedom and rights. These things do not exist, they are arbritrary concepts we made up and don't even follow.

If the majority in a community doesn't want gay marriage, then **** it don't allow it, it's only going to cause trouble.

If gays hate the bigotry in America, move to a country where being gay is accepted. They're at least free to do that.

People are going to fight before they get along, so they might as well just isolate their clashing cultures so that this nonsensical tension doesn't occur.

 

[Teran]

Wow that's a fantastic argument Pluvia.

Why don't the gays suck it up (lol) or gtfo?

 

[Pluvia]

I've been telling them to get out for quite a while now but they're not listening.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[Mota]

We should have said the same thing to women when they couldn't vote.

I like it.

Don't agree with the majority? Then please go away, thank you

 

[Shadic]

The premise is very simple, act upon your problems rather than sitting there and complaining.

Or get over it - This is supposed to be a free country.

In any case, rights are set by those in power. Ultimately, we are all equally worthless until we have something that THE MAN wants.

Not according to the constitution.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

"There is very little counter-thrust in the public debate, and the result is, I think, Muslims are becoming increasingly concerned about their security in the country," Zogby says. "This is a worrisome environment. Something's got to give."

Well. Something has to give. The moderate muslims are getting no support from us. Where do they look for support...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/t...protect-modesty-of-muslim-women-swimmers.html
http://www.islam-watch.org/AdrianMorgan/Talibanization-of-Britain.htm
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/08/06/the_talibanizat.html

The radicals have money and power, they claim to be very chaste, religiously, and they will help out anyone willing to become a radicalized tool.

 

[GreenKirby]

It's a bit dickish to build a mosque there though. I think I would oppose building one on that specific place, but I don't mind the others.

Contrary to what the media spoonfed you, it's not a mosque that's being built. It's just a large community center that only has one room repeat, ONE BLOODY ROOM, for Muslim prayer.

 

[Shadic]

And a room in the building that was already there was being used for prayer in the first place.

It's a net change of nothing.

 

[Teran]

Or get over it - This is supposed to be a free country.


Not according to the constitution.

The constitution is there to pull the wool over your eyes.

The government can take away all you constitutional rights in an instant, which pretty much means they aren't rights to begin with.

 

[Nik21]

Whats funny is that these republicans claim to be focused on electing politicians who "understand" the constitution, yet by protesting against the mosque they're going against the freedom of religion (bill of rights).
No wonder our country is ****ed and no wonder why the whole middle east hates us.

 

[Shadic]

The government can take away all you constitutional rights in an instant, which pretty much means they aren't rights to begin with.

Just because the government can doesn't mean they should. It's like saying a corrupt official could label me a dangerous terrorist and have me killed - Sure, they have the ability to take away my life technically, but I'm pretty sure I should have the right to live.

You seem to be arguing that a powerful government means nobody has anything.

 

[Teran]

Well ultimately unless we're all in a position of equal power (which will never ever happen), unless we're in the driver's seat our rights and whatnot lie in the hands of someone else.

Honestly it's not so bad, it's only depressing if you think you deserve anything at all.

Which you don't.

You or I are not entitled to anything, we're just an insignificant blip and quite frankly part of a cancerous mass that leeches this entire planet sending all life as we know it into early demise.

Have a nice day sweetie.

 

[Shadic]

Oh cut the anti-Existentialism crap. The fact that any old crazy could gun down any person he or she pleases any day of the week doesn't mean we're entitled to nothing.

 

[Life]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachla...-gutfelds-plan-gay-islamic-bar-respect-sensib

Take a read (some super-serious workplaces may not like the link, IDK). I'd say more but I trust you guys to be relatively intelligent...

 

[Teran]

Oh cut the anti-Existentialism crap. The fact that any old crazy could gun down any person he or she pleases any day of the week doesn't mean we're entitled to nothing.

I still don't get the concept of why anyone is actually entitled to anything.

Nature doesn't take sides, and it doesn't grant favours. So I don't get why we're entitled to anything. Just saying.

 

[Shadic]

Because we're supposed to live in a structured society based on rule of law. Being a Moderator is a weird job for an Anarchist, don'cha think?

 

[Teran]

Laws are necessary to nurture a much larger population, but tbh so many laws are completely ineffectual.

What the hell makes you think I'm an anarchist anyway?

 

[Shadic]

You or I are not entitled to anything,

Nature doesn't take sides, and it doesn't grant favours. So I don't get why we're entitled to anything. Just saying.

The constitution is there to pull the wool over your eyes. The government can take away all you constitutional rights in an instant, which pretty much means they aren't rights to begin with.

Seems you're either for or against extremely powerful government. Honestly hard to tell. So... Anarchist or fascist?

Laws are necessary to nurture a much larger population, but tbh so many laws are completely ineffectual.

Of course many laws are ineffectual and pointless. For example: people try and legislate stupid crap like an arbitrary distance between a mosque and the location of a terrorist attack ten years ago.

 

[El Nino]

I still don't get the concept of why anyone is actually entitled to anything.

Nature doesn't take sides, and it doesn't grant favours. So I don't get why we're entitled to anything. Just saying.

Well, you are not an American. I tend to have these discussions with Americans most of the time, and the culture seems to be embedded with entitlement. "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."

Nature doesn't take sides, but game theory is applicable to animal behavior. That is, survival strategies are dependent upon various conditions. This also applies to the relationship between the government and the governed. You can only push a people so far, after which enduring their present circumstance is not preferrable to death. At that point, revolutions occur.

At that point, leaders are hanged.

 

[Teran]

Seems you're either for or against extremely powerful government. Honestly hard to tell. So... Anarchist or fascist?


Of course many laws are ineffectual and pointless. For example: people try and legislate stupid crap like an arbitrary distance between a mosque and the location of a terrorist attack ten years ago.

I think a well run totalitarian regime would be the most effective. Really I do.

Well, you are not an American. I tend to have these discussions with Americans most of the time, and the culture seems to be embedded with entitlement. "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."

Nature doesn't take sides, but game theory is applicable to animal behavior. That is, survival strategies are dependent upon various conditions. This also applies to the relationship between the government and the governed. You can only push a people so far, after which enduring their present circumstance is not preferrable to death. At that point, revolutions occur.

At that point, leaders are hanged.

Revolutions only occur if oppression is highly obvious, which in our countries it isn't.

 

[El Nino]

Revolutions only occur if oppression is highly obvious, which in our countries it isn't.

It isn't. And in order to prevent an uprising, it is in the state's interest to recognize individual rights and freedoms and all that blahblahblah.

Or at least pretend to, I guess.

Revolutions also occur when another nation-state wages war via proxy. But that's a story for another time.

 

[Teran]

Everybody knows homosexuals aren't going to fight back, they're too wuss.

 

[El Nino]

Come on, Teran. I know you can kick some ***.

 

[Teran]

Well gee. :3

It's because I'm a deranged lunatic.

 

[Pluvia]

Or maybe it's living in London and threat of constant stabbings keep you on edge.

 

[RATED]

people/religions shouldnt be judged bcuz one person or a few did something bad, bcuz if It were like that christians would be so ****ed by the time now.

 

[Nik21]

its nice to finally see people who agree to protect freedom of religion. people need to stop stereotyping muslims as terrorists because islamaphobia is spreading in America and its not good.

 

[GreenKirby]

The concentration on this non-issue proves that we are so illogically afraid of Muslims, that we are more than willing to condemn fellow Americans and other people who had nothing to do with 9/11, and ignore the 1st Amendment, just to feel 'safe', 'secure', and 'respectful'. You guys do know that this type of fear is what the real terrorists who were involved in 9/11 wanted, right?

My hat's off to bin Laden. Looks like he won after all.

And here's a summary on how all this madness started.

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_ze...ar_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins

Edit: Congratulations you fearful bigots. They're gonna move the mosque somewhere else (which means it'll never be built basically)
http://www.haaretz.com/news/interna...unity-center-1.308426?localLinksEnabled=false

Seriously, my hat's off to bin Laden now. He actually managed to pull something like this off.

 

[REL38]

Wow

I've lost the remaining respect I had for this country


Propaganda against this?
Absolutely horrible

 

[Kole]

not a surprise

so many Americans are prejudiced against Muslims..

A Muslim friend of mine knows a lot about weapons and was talking to someone about it in class and a few girls overheard. I heard them saying after class "stay away from him, he's probably a terrorist or something"

 

[Glöwworm]

has anyone read sarah palin's facebook note?

 

[Dre89]

El Nino I find it ironic (and funny) that you say religion has had little influence on society (yet medieval historians will tell you that medieval western society was virtually defined by Christianity), and particularly little influence on yourself, yet you support the social contract, which came from religion.

Also, I don't see how you can make the sweeping claim that all religions are just mereproducts of their culture, when religions such as Catholicism were in complete conflict with the cultural ideals of the time, leading to the persecution of countless believers.

 

[Pluvia]

Your country doesn't hold up its values very well.

 

[El Nino]

A Muslim friend of mine knows a lot about weapons and was talking to someone about it in class and a few girls overheard. I heard them saying after class "stay away from him, he's probably a terrorist or something"

American prejudice is lulzy like that. If you're white and like guns, you get away with being a mere "gun nut," and people will defend your gun ownership as your 2nd Amendment right. But if you're a minority and like guns, you're either a gang member or a terrorist.

El Nino I find it ironic (and funny) that you say religion has had little influence on society (yet medieval historians will tell you that medieval western society was virtually defined by Christianity)

I don't remember saying that. I do remember saying that some people tend to overemphasize the role of religion as the chief cause of conflict in modern relations between the West and the Middle East. I do acknowledge that their tendency to overemphasize may be, in itself, an issue to be addressed, but I just find that political forces have stronger pull than religion. In this case, I do think that religious affiliations are being used as political tools.

That said, I think we can both agree that religion does have an influence on society. But we're going to disagree on how much when compared to other factors. I give politics more weight in most cases because political power tends to be more direct; religion is an influence, and it doesn't have direct power unless it merges with a political state.

and particularly little influence on yourself, yet you support the social contract, which came from religion.

I don't think I said I "support" the social contract. I just acknowledge that it exists. The idea may have come from a religion (which one, may I ask?), but the contract itself is a social construct derived from the behavior of social animals.

I don't see how you can make the sweeping claim that all religions are just mereproducts of their culture, when religions such as Catholicism were in complete conflict with the cultural ideals of the time, leading to the persecution of countless believers.

"Mere" is not a word I would use for something that is a product of culture. I find no point in belitting something just because it is a product of human activity.

Also, it is possible for a culture to give rise to something contradictory. Counter-cultures and subcultures come into existence this way. In almost every society, I think we can find those who are ostracized, who don't fit in with mainstream values. Often, these individuals develop their own cultures that react and retaliate against mainstream values.

 

[Kole]

I find it hilarious that people think it's just a mosque by the site of Ground Zero.

for 30 years there has been a mosque 12 blocks from the World Trade Center. overflowing people from that mosque started meeting at a building on Park Place, two blocks from of the World Trade Center site, in a former store that was damaged by an engine on 9/11. Now the people who meet there want to tear down the damaged building and build a new 13-story Islamic community center, which includes a mosque, performing arts center, gym, swimming pool, and a daycare.

 

[GreenKirby]

Sorry, apperantly the info in the link I posted was exposed as false. They're still building the mosque.

http://twitter.com/park51

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts...thstanding_cordoba_house_still_moving_forward

 

[Kole]

here's the site of the project

http://park51.org

 

[Dre89]

El Nino, the social contrac came from a Protestant Fidiest called Thomas Hobbes.

If movements both conforming and conflicting with culture are both products of it, then what isn't?

Product of culture means it reflects the influences of the time. Certain things such as Catholicism do not do that.