@#139: I was thinking of just starting where I left off, but I'd like to start with Crimson King's post, not because of the questions, but the fact he was the only person who even entertained taking a stance against me. I really liked that, unlike many others, he didn't just go "meh, Xiivi is suspicious for his attack/activity", but actually attempted to dissect things.
Susa, don't take offense to this, but shut the **** up. Right now, I just finished reading from pages 2 - 4 (40ppp), and you have stuck out, a lot. This is not good for the town because we have the focal point on a sole new member with a veteran (Xivii) grilling him. Frankly, I don't have any clear reads on either of you, and Susa is coming off as more of a newbie than a legitimate scum. I do like Xivii's analysis of him, but I am more disturbed by the attention he is drawing to himself, Susa, and by Susa, Kataefi. This has been a method of drawing a lot of people out of inactivity, but I worry more about hurting town at this point.
Susa and
Xivii even MENTIONING claims so early is extremely disturbing.
Personally, I don't think the exchange is too detrimental to town, especially since it really put out a lot of things within 1/14th of the actual Day 1. It could have happened a lot slower, and more users could have weighed in in between, but the main reason this didn't happen was mostly due to the fact SuSa and I were online at the same time and really don't have any lives (sorry SuSa, but you're the one who joined all social groups, and I'm the one who friends everyone
). Pretty much every time I posted, SuSa had something ready for me, so it kept on going. Also since people are bringing it up, I'm fine discussing my meta/"veteran" status. I've played all of one game - Disney Mafia. I entertained Epic Mafia for a bit, but it got boring fast. I've played a few AIM mafia games, but mostly because other people insisted on hosting from time to time. I played Chaco's Fire & Ice mafia, but when Chaco came up to me going "I need a replacement for a marathon game" I assumed it had something to do with AIM. I was kind of annoyed to find I was stuck in a forum game. This game I mostly joined as a favour to Steel. I really think it's a bad idea for anyone to justify my actions based on my very limited meta. I would much prefer if people looked at my posts and analyzed them instead of comparing it all to my limited mafia experience. I'm not too much of a fan of the 'newbie' card or 'brownie townie' points. I feel people can and should look into things and the intent behind what people post. I still find it odd that people assume this will hurt town. It only hurts town if people refuse to look into the situation and blow it off, which essentially negates it. A lot of people have done this. Everyone has something they can pull out of the whole situation, and what they choose/choose not to pull out of the situation should be looked at. It's a great way to stem discussion in my opinion. As for the claims thing, when something is brought up I'm going to assume it's fair game and comment my opinion. Right now, I have a lot of feelings on a lot of players based on how they handled the SuSa/Xiivi interaction. I feel others can too if they look into things, which some people have.
What should be noted is that Day 1 is for the mafia to feel everyone out. They need to assess who will be dangerous to them should they leak a scumtell, who will likely get themselves lynched anyway, who will help lynch town, and who will just serve as a distraction. By focusing on one person so fast and easily, we are misusing our one real power as town: Day Lynches. I mean think how powerful we could be if we could actually clear as many people as possible on Day 1 and get a solid lynch. Unfortunately, I feel that we are not using this to the fullest.
It seems like you're focused on Day 1 on the perspective of the mafia instead of the perspective of the town. You seem to mention this near the end with "clearing as many people as possible", which would require everyone to really be out in the open. Seeing a lot of 2 players in a short amount of time is good for this, and allows the rest of toDay to be used looking through other players. What you mentioned first about "feeling everyone out" applies as much to the town as it does to the mafia, if not more. Voting patterns are also pretty important, which is why I wanted to get a feel for the FoS/HoS on SuSa some people threw out. A lot of them seemed to have good reasons for suspecting SuSa, but were reluctant to join on a bandwagon of 1 person. Looking into why this reluctance was present is essentially looking into voting patterns, which are always a good tool.
Vote: Xivii
Xivii, be a dear and answer these questions:
Do you honestly think Susa is scum, and if so, can you link to the direct scum tells? Could they just be newbietells?
I loved this analysis of Susa's odd post, but other than that, he really comes off as naive rather than legitimately messing up hiding himself.
Are there any other people who really make you want to pounce like you did?
I'm really more concerned about your focus being based on some small drops. I was initially with such things as naming possible claims for the mafia (which is just odd...), but his defeatist mentality can be either REALLY newbie or REALLY newbie scummy. I am leaning towards the former since he went as far as to vote for himself, which legitimately could end with his lynching and the Mafia don't need that.
So, elaborate would be the summary.
In my mind, yes SuSa has a done a lot of things that make me believe there's more to him than just "being a n00b". SuSa has done a lot to show he's been actively reading and learning from the wiki.
Post 46 sent me a vibe of "I'm new. I don't know what the RVS is. It scares me. Why are people doing this?"
Post 48 was what alarmed me. It was posted the same minute as my post 49, which was linking to the RVS, OMGUS, etc... in order to help him understand. However once I saw 48, I saw who I believed to be a clueless new player throwing down a vote that went against the logic in his previous post made a short time before. To me, that doesn't say "new player learning the RVS out of the blue" but "new scum making a slip up".
Eventually he claims in post 66 he was just against the RVS but suddenly understood it and decided to participate in it. He also later admits in post 132 that he learned the Traitor/Spy thing from the flash and that it was one of the few roles he remembered which is why he thought the mafia didn't know each other's identities. (However in post 63 he says that he knows the mafia learn who each other are during the first night phase.) I had never seen the flash and decided to go through it and find where it mentioned the traitor/spy role. Well, it wasn't in the "Roles" section and I had to click on "Various Roles" which brought me to a new flash, which is where I find the traitor role. I find it odd this was the one he remembered. An important highlight to this role is that appears innocent to cop investigations. In post 73 SuSa mentions the possibility of a cop investigating him to prove his innocence. But I find it odd how he would find this useful when the mafia role he is most familiar with is innocent to cop investigations. He also mentions his knowledge of cop sanities in this post. I find it really odd how he's familiar with these, yet welcomes the investigation anyway. While mentioning ignorance of things in previous posts, he doesn't actually bring out the newbie card until post 73, which is after Kataefi brings up his view on SuSa and how newbieness is probably the answer in post 72. Here SuSa latches onto Kataefi for dear life with "oh no, now Kataefi will be blamed for defending me!" It's as if he knows he's going to get lynched and going to flip scum. He continues to latch onto Kataefi for a good while as well.
I have a strong feeling that if he is scum, that SuSa is in fact the traitor/spy he originally mentioned. It explains a lot of his behaviour and ignorance of the mafia not knowing each other. Also, if his "I knew what RVS" defense is true, then him changing his mind and attempting to jump into the RVS is great in the way he did it. If he was the traitor, then he would hope to be recruiter by his mafia partners, meaning throwing out a little breadcrumble in the RVS and passing it off as a joke would have just been perfect for him if the next few pages were just people joking.
His vote on himself really sits bad with me as well as his suggestion to no lynch. There is a game on mafiascum (currently in progress, and generally linking to ongoing games is a taboo) where scum was lynched Day 1 after his attempts to vote himself and vote no lynch as jokes. Those things really seem like desperation measures to me as if "they'll just think I'm crazy if I vote myself and drop my case" is his line of thinking.
It also took a
lot of people to convince him to unvote himself, eventually with him saying he did it because of "popular request" in post 168. However, if you look at post 125, he insists his vote on himself is his only real vote (yet in post 165 he instead claims his vote on himself is irrational). He continues to explain in posts 128/130 that he is using "logic" and is voting himself in order to "get reactions". He also states he doesn't want to state his opinions on people, which is kind of odd if he's looking at their reactions. He also mentions not living too long and hoping that town will look at these reactions and gain something. Essentially he's asking people to do the searching for him, which to me seems like he doesn't WANT to bring anything to the table and hopes to latch onto what someone else says.
Regardless, I hope I've made my SuSa case clear. I'm going to start working on posts about my thoughts on other players, because this is becoming very centralized and I do have opinions on other players I'd really like to share. There is still a lot of time toDay and I don't plan on letting a speedy SuSa lynch happen this early, despite the fact I do have a strong feeling on the situation (I also have some strong opinions on some others, and just because I've seen more of SuSa doesn't mean he is the best choice. Especially when I can look into other players and deduce if they would be a better choice.)
However I do like how he references the No True Scotsman in post 171. Which is essentially saying what I said much earlier in this post.
