Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[TheReflexWonder]

"I need a monster to clobber that there Kirby."

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

"I need a monster to clobber that there Kirby."

Considering this is the top of page 266, I think it should be the new topic of discussion henceforth.

 

[moogle]

It's only page 266 in Bizarro World!

Where I come from, it's page 707.

 

[Sensai]

Bottom of 707 for me, IHSB.

Also, Coach, are you coming to this thing in Tuscaloosa? You should; it's been a long time since we've played.

[Edit:]

MOOGLE YOU NINJA

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I just entered Bizarro World for convenience purposes. It's easier than constantly scrolling through pages.

 

[NES n00b]

Whatever the reason is that someone is losing, that reason was made possible by the developers of the game and the mechanics they put in the game. And those mechanics could be enough to turn people off of a game regardless of how perfect it might be at its highest level. For example, personally, the skill curve in Counter Strike is way too steep for my tastes. I'm sure its an awesome game at high levels, but at the level that I'm playing at, its not fun because its too hard to keep up. It's nonsense to say "Why are you talking about what happens at your level of play, just get better" i don't want to get better because what happens at MY LEVEL is ******** and not fun. (Note, I am not saying that melee is like this, but this is probably the argument that reflex and munkus are making).

Most good competitive games have a steep learning curve where people at a much higher level don't have to much effort to beat you. It happens in every game. The only way it is possible is that something is not deep enough to have such barriers like tic tac toe.

Replacing "Brawl's airdodge mixup game" with "Brawl's lack of hitstun" is an obvious strawman. But, no one's forcing you to argue. We can just go in the melee thread and teach me how to play a sexy Falcon :-D

How is it a strawman? There is a lack of hitstun in the game and it is the reason there is so many times you have to guess the airdodge mixup. If there was hitstun, there would be less times you would have to guess the airdodge mixup because you wouldn't have to guess everytime you hit someone and they are somewhat near you.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Most good competitive games have a steep learning curve where people at a much higher level don't have to much effort to beat you. It happens in every game. The only way it is possible is that something is not deep enough to have such barriers like tic tac toe.

A steep learning curve is irrelevant as long as there is a lot of space for improvement. I don't have to put a lot of effort into beating players that simply aren't on my level in Brawl, and the same applies in Melee. That is because there is a lot of room for improvement; a steep learning curve is simply another way to separate it, and it can be frustrating depending on how much there is to learn, and how necessary it is.

How is it a strawman? There is a lack of hitstun in the game and it is the reason there is so many times you have to guess the airdodge mixup. If there was hitstun, there would be less times you would have to guess the airdodge mixup because you wouldn't have to guess everytime you hit someone and they are somewhat near you.

The "airdodge mixup" isn't as simple as "is he going to airdodge or not?". There are many moves designed to hit the opponent regardless. Looping Lucas's PK Thunder in the correct way, for instance, allows you to hit the opponent even if he airdodges, which also opens up the edgeguarding options. There are various means of making it much deeper than two choices.

 

[munkus beaver]

I'll follow I<3SB's lead. Hatchet buried. Spaceball1 gone from suck to blow. Planet Druidia's got it's air back. Lonestar gave Helmet the raspberry.

 

[NES n00b]

A steep learning curve is irrelevant as long as there is a lot of space for improvement. I don't have to put a lot of effort into beating players that simply aren't on my level in Brawl, and the same applies in Melee. That is because there is a lot of room for improvement; a steep learning curve is simply another way to separate it, and it can be frustrating depending on how much there is to learn, and how necessary it is.

A lot of space for improvement implies steep learning curve. If there is something learn there is a curve, whether it be learning your options or pressing a bunch of buttons fast. If you thought what I meant by "steep learning" curve in terms of technical skill then it can be frustrating, but it is can also be frustrating to get tiger spammed by old sagat in ST, but it isn't tech skill that is the barrier. In chess, there is a steep learning curve in high level play because as with most games not all options are equal and so you have to memorize the right way to counter certain things your opponent is doing or think he is going to do.

The "airdodge mixup" isn't as simple as "is he going to airdodge or not?". There are many moves designed to hit the opponent regardless. Looping Lucas's PK Thunder in the correct way, for instance, allows you to hit the opponent even if he airdodges, which also opens up the edgeguarding options. There are various means of making it much deeper than two choices.

I never implied anything more than the lack of hitstun is the reason a lot of the airdodge mixup games arise.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I'll follow I<3SB's lead. Hatchet buried. Spaceball1 gone from suck to blow. Planet Druidia's got it's air back. Lonestar gave Helmet the raspberry.

Not burning bridges and Mel Brooks movie references: a match made in heaven.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

A lot of space for improvement implies steep learning curve. If there is something learn there is a curve, whether it be learning your options or pressing a bunch of buttons fast. If you thought what I meant by "steep learning" curve in terms of technical skill then it can be frustrating, but it is can also be frustrating to get tiger spammed by old sagat in ST, but it isn't tech skill that is the barrier. In chess, there is a steep learning curve in high level play because as with most games not all options are equal and so you have to memorize the right way to counter certain things your opponent is doing or think he is going to do.

No, a lot of space for improvement implies a lot that one can learn about the game. A steep learning curve is the general difficulty of effectively applying that to gameplay. It's generally not that difficult to learn how to Tiger Shot spam effectively with Old Sagat, but it's generally difficult to learn how to, say, waveshine an opponent across the stage into an Up-Smash with Melee Fox.

A game can have a steep learning curve and have only a small amount of depth, despite the fact that when one is present, the other usually accompanies it in a similar amount.

 

[j00t]

also... all you brawl haters are the reason i dont play melee...
the community isnt accepting. to both people who are not great at it, and also to people who do not go jack off to melee every night.
you hate everything and everyone that isnt all about melee and tech skill.
brawl has taught us alot. at first we were like "WTF NO GOOD TECHS!" but then realized there is much much more to a game than techs. and every other aspect of brawl still continues to improve other than techs.


again going back to munkus. i have YET to sit in my room for days mapping a controller and practicing a tech. the way i get better at brawl is by being social. when i face Kalm. When i go to tournaments. When i face anyone better than me. Nice1 came over and i learned alot. it makes us stronger as a community rather than a bunch of elitists who joke on you if you dont have as little of a life as they do.


that AND the fact that you guys have not stopped saying "BARWL SUCKS! MELEE IS AWESOME!" for over a year is kinda pathetic. give it up already. we like brawl.

Actually, our community is a lot more accepting than most. We don't hate Brawl players themselves, we do not like Brawl because it was a letdown for devoted Melee fans.

I actually have a theory now that most competitive Brawl players today were people that just played Melee on a casual level and never experienced tournament-level Melee, wanted to be competitive Melee players but never reached the level they wanted, or never played Melee at all and started at Brawl.

you people (munkus, winnar, etc.) have to understand that the devoted competitive Melee players waited so long for Brawl... we wanted it to be an improvement from Melee. Brawl wasn't an improvement, at least for me (and probably most Melee players.)

How can you talk about our community like that when you don't know anything about it? This is the only question I have left for you, sir.

 

[Rigor_Mortis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jYJ-Yjf3w
Any Meta users play like this during tourneys?

It's like 8 pages back, and I still can't get over the pure ******ry present in this video. This is where you calmly ask the kid how old he is. If he says 18 or higher, you unplug your controller, and just drill him in the face while screaming "FALCON PUNCH FUHKER!" Then calmly leave the tourney.
If he's under 18, you unplug his controller and spike him. Then drag him to the bathroom and give him a swirly.
---------------

On an unrelated note, whats up guys. I'd play Brawl more often, but have no wii. And I've been left in the dust since I haven't had access to it but like once in the past year.

:/ Oh and I'd like to share this:
http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/where-the-wild-things-are/trailer
Thank me later.

 

[NES n00b]

No, a lot of space for improvement implies a lot that one can learn about the game. A steep learning curve is the general difficulty of effectively applying that to gameplay. It's generally not that difficult to learn how to Tiger Shot spam effectively with Old Sagat, but it's generally difficult to learn how to, say, waveshine an opponent across the stage into an Up-Smash with Melee Fox.

A game can have a steep learning curve and have only a small amount of depth, despite the fact that when one is present, the other usually accompanies it in a similar amount.

Right steep learning curve is the difficulty of putting it into gameplay. High level spacing is hard to learn. You weren't spacing attacks perfectly since day one right? To effectively spam with Old Sagat against top level players is pretty hard right? If you want the learning curve to be lower, you want to game to be simpler in some way rather it be technical skill or options or things you need to memorize.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's like 8 pages back, and I still can't get over the pure ******ry present in this video. This is where you calmly ask the kid how old he is. If he says 18 or higher, you unplug your controller, and just drill him in the face while screaming "FALCON PUNCH FUHKER!" Then calmly leave the tourney.
If he's under 18, you unplug his controller and spike him. Then drag him to the bathroom and give him a swirly.
---------------

Three minutes in, the red Meta Knight would've been disqualified under the Japanese ledgegrab rule, which covers ten-minute matches, and is being tested at US tournaments now (it was implemented at H.E.R.B., for example). All Mr. Blue would've had to do is run after that.

 

[munkus beaver]

It was 'tested' at HERB? I would think it a very straightforward, noncontroversial rule.

 

[munkus beaver]

http://www.smashboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7014832

Actually, our community is a lot more accepting than most. We don't hate Brawl players themselves, we do not like Brawl because it was a letdown for devoted Melee fans.

I actually have a theory now that most competitive Brawl players today were people that just played Melee on a casual level and never experienced tournament-level Melee, wanted to be competitive Melee players but never reached the level they wanted, or never played Melee at all and started at Brawl.

you people (munkus, winnar, etc.) have to understand that the devoted competitive Melee players waited so long for Brawl... we wanted it to be an improvement from Melee. Brawl wasn't an improvement, at least for me (and probably most Melee players.)

How can you talk about our community like that when you don't know anything about it? This is the only question I have left for you, sir.

Rather than respond to this post meticulously and drag out this stupid argument for pages and pages, I'm going to post a funny picture and tell you to just drop it, like some of us have, and the rest of you should have.

Alt text:

Spoiler

Like spelling 'dammit' correctly -- with two m's -- it's a troll that works best on the most literate.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It was 'tested' at HERB? I would think it a very straightforward, noncontroversial rule.

Well, the thing is, they use 70 ledgegrabs for ten-minute matches. Since eight-minute matches are the standard here, 56 ledgegrabs seems to correspond, but they used 70 anyway, which is roughly seven seconds per ledgegrab.

 

[j00t]

Rather than respond to this post meticulously and drag out this stupid argument for pages and pages, I'm going to post a funny picture and tell you to just drop it, like some of us have, and the rest of you should have.

Alt text:

Spoiler

Like spelling 'dammit' correctly -- with two m's -- it's a troll that works best on the most literate.

Consider is as good as dropped as long as other people don't continue.

...*******. *runs away*

 

[Winnar]

I actually have a theory now that most competitive Brawl players today were people that just played Melee on a casual level and never experienced tournament-level Melee, wanted to be competitive Melee players but never reached the level they wanted, or never played Melee at all and started at Brawl.

Right, because M2K, Azen, Chillin, ChuDat, basically the entire east coast, etc. aren't the majority of

you people (munkus, winnar, etc.) have to understand that the devoted competitive Melee players waited so long for Brawl... we wanted it to be an improvement from Melee. Brawl wasn't an improvement, at least for me (and probably most Melee players.)

How can you talk about our community like that when you don't know anything about it? This is the only question I have left for you, sir.

And now I'll answer your question with one of my own: How can you talk about me like that when you don't know anything about me? I played a LOT of melee for a LONG time. I have been a part of the melee community for...oh what does it matter anyway? Like I really have to prove how devoted I was to the melee community to you -_- The point is that you assume that because I play Brawl and am denouncing Melee that I never played the game.

And here's how it is for me

Melee before Brawl's release > SSB64 before Melee's release > Brawl now > Melee now

Also I only posted because spaceballs said some bull**** and then I just got carried away.

Also also moogle wins the brawl v melee argument:

melee is like football, and brawl is like flag football

and both are fun

Also sorry munkus for dragging this out a little longer, I just dislike being misrepresented.

And I guess that's it for me, ciao.

 

[Xeedoc]

Screw reading your long posts.

Stick with a sentence or two.

What do you think I am? Civil? Intelligent?

BAH

 

[Winnar]

Here's a song as a peace offering

http://www.imeem.com/groups/7KdGy2M9/music/4erzB_XH/ken-wake-city/

The song doesn't start until like 29 seconds in but eh it's good D:

 

[Aurorazoni]

Well with the heated brawl vs melee discussion simmering, I'd like to bring up something one of you said yesterday (I think). Something about AL and the characters they use in the tourney game play. Are we really that different and use all sorts of various tiers? o: So I won't be seeing a majority of Meta, Snake, and Dedede at Gamebox?

 

[Mr. Referee]

Why is it that every time I'm gone for a couple of days some controversy starts? Well I already know well enough to just stay out of it. And yeah Aurorazoni even I was surprised at the diversity of characters at the tournaments I've been to. You'll see dedicated Links and Bowsers and such.

 

[j00t]

Right, because M2K, Azen, Chillin, ChuDat, basically the entire east coast, etc. aren't the majority of

Noticed how I said the words MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST OF THE PEOPLE.

And now I'll answer your question with one of my own: How can you talk about me like that when you don't know anything about me? I played a LOT of melee for a LONG time. I have been a part of the melee community for...oh what does it matter anyway? Like I really have to prove how devoted I was to the melee community to you -_- The point is that you assume that because I play Brawl and am denouncing Melee that I never played the game.

Okay, then you should know that in general the Melee community isn't a bunch of asswipes that prevent people from playing Melee because they play Brawl. The Melee community does have some rude people, no doubt, but can you tell me a gaming community that doesn't?

 

[eagletrent242]

Its been maybe 6 hours and 3 pages? Come on guys! YOU'RE KILLIN ME! Lol

 

[Pika_Cam]

Well with the heated brawl vs melee discussion simmering, I'd like to bring up something one of you said yesterday (I think). Something about AL and the characters they use in the tourney game play. Are we really that different and use all sorts of various tiers? o: So I won't be seeing a majority of Meta, Snake, and Dedede at Gamebox?

I think there may have been one Dedede at TCS IV...

You'll see a lot of god/high tier for sure. There'll be a bunch of Snake, Metaknight, and Falco players.

Still, I was impressed at my first AL tournament when I saw all of the characters that were being used. I must have counted 20 different characters, and that's not counting the low tier tournament. I played a really good Bowser, Zelda, and even Link.

Oh, and I even heard there was a PIKACHU there

 

[Sensai]

You guys post way too ****in' much. Seriously.

I can't even keep up.

[Edit:]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jYJ-Yjf3w

Hahahaha...man. I think that's one of the better Brawl matches I've seen.

Man...Sakurai ****ed up.

 

[j00t]

You guys post way too ****in' much. Seriously.

I can't even keep up.

[Edit:]

Hahahaha...man. I think that's one of the better Brawl matches I've seen.

Man...Sakurai ****ed up.

You are awesome.

 

[shaSLAM]

i was just judging the melee community by your responses.
my bad.

and Aurorazoni... actually AL is probably the coolest place to compete. youll see some of everything.

 

[G. Vice]

I heard something about something in Tuscaloosa. I'm currently in Tuscaloosa at the moment visiting my girlfriend and stuff, so I'm in town a little. If anyone doesn't have plans on Thursday afternoon from about 3 or 4 to about 7ish then I can definitely play some peeps. I brought my smash stick.

Someone let me know! :D

 

[Winnar]

Noticed how I said the words MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST OF THE PEOPLE.

Okay, then you should know that in general the Melee community isn't a bunch of asswipes that prevent people from playing Melee because they play Brawl. The Melee community does have some rude people, no doubt, but can you tell me a gaming community that doesn't?

I think "pretty much the entire east coast" was meant to disprove your "most of the people" and I also threw in names you'd recognize to back it up. Unfortunately I got them backwards :O

Also I never said the melee community sucks, just that melee's old and is a dead end. Obviously apart from this brawl hate stuff they've become fond of only recently (most of which is all just in good fun) the melee community has been quite awesome. I wouldn't have stuck around so long if it wasn't. This wouldn't be the only forum I regularly post on if I didn't enjoy the smash community. I just see this stupid, pointless, boring debate over which game deserves to be played...

...and I can't help but perpetuate it.

Anyway it's amazing how much less things annoy you after a 2 hour nap :D

 

[Winnar]

Well with the heated brawl vs melee discussion simmering, I'd like to bring up something one of you said yesterday (I think). Something about AL and the characters they use in the tourney game play. Are we really that different and use all sorts of various tiers? o: So I won't be seeing a majority of Meta, Snake, and Dedede at Gamebox?

Unfortunately I'm too big of a chump and I always lose all my resolve (and matches) whenever I'm at tournaments I want to play not-Snake at.

One of these days though. One of these days I'll show up as Falcon and win and everyone will love me. :O

Also I'm learning how to double post like a pro here, kind of like I learned how to j-walk like a pro in NYC. Srsly I'm a better j-walker now than you can ever imagine. It's an art or something.

 

[Majist]

Too bad I won't be there -_-

*glares at munkus, hides*

EDIT: okay, i was referring to Gamebox. This thread is moving way too fast. You guys need to shut the hell up

 

[anomaly]

I heard something about something in Tuscaloosa. I'm currently in Tuscaloosa at the moment visiting my girlfriend and stuff, so I'm in town a little. If anyone doesn't have plans on Thursday afternoon from about 3 or 4 to about 7ish then I can definitely play some peeps. I brought my smash stick.

Someone let me know! :D

I have a cube if you wanna play melee.

 

[DanGR]

Before I say anything else, this is directed at anyone complaining about planking in general.

It's like 8 pages back, and I still can't get over the pure ******ry present in this video. This is where you calmly ask the kid how old he is. If he says 18 or higher, you unplug your controller, and just drill him in the face while screaming "FALCON PUNCH FUHKER!" Then calmly leave the tourney.
If he's under 18, you unplug his controller and spike him. Then drag him to the bathroom and give him a swirly.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see the big deal with this. It's not much dumber than a lot of stuff I see in this game already, and I think it's just as dumb to complain about planking as it is for someone to complain about any chaingrab/infinite/Metaknight user/tactic. in this game.

I saw Munkus counterpick Kalm to the mansion and he tornadoed his DK literally 6-8 times in a row... (which is totally fine in my book; he was playing to win) and then I see him tell me, probably in a serious, but sort of joking tone, that he'd hurt me if I planked? HUH? They're both pretty lame, but they're both legal as well.

On the contrary, I don't think I've ever heard Moogle complain about Pikachu's chaingrab to 100%+ or Falco's chaingrab->spike on him either. And guess what? He beat the last Pikachu he played in tournament, and he got Kismet to one stock the last two matches he played with his Falco. He didn't pre-john about how "dumb" or "lame" they are. He found a way to get around them for the most part, and he did very well considering.

Well with the heated brawl vs melee discussion simmering, I'd like to bring up something one of you said yesterday (I think). Something about AL and the characters they use in the tourney game play. Are we really that different and use all sorts of various tiers? o: So I won't be seeing a majority of Meta, Snake, and Dedede at Gamebox?

I can only think of about 7 different Metaknight/Snake/D3 users that I've played against at the last 5 or so tourneys I've been to. With a lack of those characters in the AL Brawl scene, not many people have been forced or have felt a lot of pressure to use the better characters in the game. We've got several low/mid tier mainers running around and the variety is fantastic. I can only hope it stays this way.

 

[Winnar]

My problem with planking is that as a concept it is exactly in the opposite direction of everything Smash Bros is about. I understand playing to win, but in every other situation that just fuels the flames of competition. Planking stifles those flames instantly. Technically, yes this is another brick wall MK has under his belt, and it isn't fool-proof...it's just stupid.

Not that I really have to worry about it because I'm a Captain Falcon Snake main. I think.

Nades > planking

 

[theONEjanitor]

its a strawman because you are stating "lack of hitstun" as if it is set in stone in the book of life as if that is a bad thing for a game to have a lack of hitstun. You didn't even respond to what was actually posted about how the airdodge game is naturally deep by virtue of it having many options and counters to all of those options, you just looked over it and said 'whatever there's no hitstun so that's bad regardless of what you say"


the difference between planking and chaingrabs/tornado spam is that planking is ledgestalling, which has the word "stalling" in the name

i played melee and experienced the tournament aspect of it, and had a slow progress because I didn't understand the game. now i play brawl and managed to understand the game quicker, and I like both games, and both games are fun.

this debate has been basically

melee nub: brawl sucks
brawl nub: why
melee nub: i'm not even going to get into it you are too stupid to understand
brawl nub: melee's too hard
melee nub: no its not

i was trying to solicit better discussion from both sides but i guess it will always be a lost cause.

if you switch the S and C that becomes SAUCE


@ auro, will plays MK, munkus plays MK, I play snake, nice1 plays falco/snake, moogle used to play snake in bad fox matchups but I think he's playing pit now...elev8 plays snake and dedede, but he rarely comes to our tournaments :-P
oh and dangr plays mk when you give his olimar trouble :-D

and i'm going to start playing MK in pools and nado spamming nubs

you'll find some other people who play these character but these are the main ones you probably need to worry about

i disagree that melee is old or dead.

also, you guys really need to switch to 40 posts per page. It's only been like two and half pages of debate for me lol

 

[theONEjanitor]

Nades > planking

yup

10yups

 

[Will_]

Dan's got some real legit **** here tbh.

No more remarks from me about planking, then. I'll beat it myself.