Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[coach]

it's been a few pages so i thought id let you all know again. i'm amazing at brawl. (p.s. don't troll me)

 

[Xeedoc]

MOOGLE
Put that I second G&W on the first page.
Thanks.
Who all is going to FakeGeorge's tourney in LA?

 

[DanGR]

The airdodging system in Brawl is one of the things that makes it a deep game.
[...(to make this quote not take up so much room)]
So in essence, the aerial game is a game of chess in and of itself, which means the player who is the smartest and most unpredictable will win the aerial battles. Which naturally lends itself to competitive play.

I agree. I also like the fact that it places more emphasis on the air game- which I think Melee lacked. :X

I would guess that some Melee vets don't like it because it's not the way they've been playing the game for the past 9 years? I dunno.

 

[theONEjanitor]

the only way you wouldn't like Brawl's aerial system is if you enjoy being able to juggle people without them having much recourse, and/or if you dont' know how to play the game efficiently and think airdodging is broken.
I suppose it could be argued that if you successfully launch your opponent in the air, you should necessarily be able to hit them many times again. But that's just one opinion about the matter. Brawl is a defensively minded game. That's just the type of game it is, it doesn't really make it better or worse than anything else.
Melee lacked a deep aerial game, but to me that's just the type of game it was, and you just got used to taking 50 damage whenever you got upthrowed :-P

also @ reflex saying people enjoy games they're good at...

i think I'm better at melee then at brawl, honestly in terms of pure skill at the game. I win more in brawl mainly because everyone sucks at brawl, and everyone is good at melee :-P

but if you take a random kid on the street. I'd trash him in melee. but in brawl, although I'd likely still win, it'd be closer. Someone like Reflex would probably jv3 stock him in both games.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I also laughed when I started playing the game, because people I played against would say MK was broken because of his up-B. They would just just parrot the sentiment that MK was broken and then they would assume that it was because of his up-b because that was my favorite method of attack. You can even check my videos, I almost never used whirlwind in singles. I avoided it like the plague. And that was why he was supposed to be 'broken.' And during that time I was a dominate force in Alabama. It is only recently that I have incorporated the whirlwind at all and it has been one of the things I have had the most trouble with figuring out how to fit it into my playstyle appropriately, since I don't like the ability.

glide attack to upb is still pretty sick. :-P

and still almost no other metaknights beside yourself use it.

 

[Kalm]

Stage Striking is right up my playstylish ally. This better be a consistent rule in AL because I like it.



And nothing else but what I think matters.

 

[moogle]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227088

 

[Kalm]

Wow.

10wows

 

[NES n00b]

Mid-level and low level play are the heart and soul of any competitive community. If Ken vs. PC Chris was the only definition of competitive Melee, I would have quit a month after I started, as would have most other people I'm sure.
and I'm not saying that "being able to win with tech skill" is a bad thing. But it happens in Melee.

This in itself is sorta nonsensical. If we have to go through different levels of plays, you can list a tons of reasons why mid level players lose to other mid level players which is not what you discuss when talking about a competitive game. I mean it could be any number of reasons at mid level and low level (unlike high level which would be matchup and being outsmarted). Matchups are different, the experience of the players since they have different amounts, not sheilding at this time, blah blah blah, it is a bunch of random **** as why mid level play is different. Again if you are losing to pure technical skill, then you you must not be l canceling properly or something. I am pretty sure I am not losing to anyone due to their pure technical skill.

I don't want to discuss how a lack of hitstun makes a game "deep" or the balance issues of Brawl really. I barely want to respond to these comments about Melee.

 

[Kalm]

Melee and Brawl sucks.

Play Smash64, etc.

 

[-Chad-]

The thing that made me disenchanted with melee is when I discovered the reprogrammed controller.

I mean Shannon should be able to back me up. You remember Brandon's housemate Alex? How he was pretty bad at the game? Well, one visit he suddenly became a beast in singles (still not too good in doubles) when he was using marth. It was sudden and inexplicable. He was wavedashing left and right and moving around so quickly and just destroying us most of the time. Later on he left, and i was playing Brandon in some friendly 1v1s. I couldn't find my controller, so I just picked up Alex's. He had the L and R mapped so that the first hit would make you shorthop and the second would make you air dodge. So if you alternated them back and forth quickly you would wavedash with ease.

He wasn't a good player by any stretch of the imagination. But with a little programmable 'tech skill' he suddenly jumped up to a new level. It's also when I started to differentiate between tech skill and actual skill at the game.

You....

You can't be serious......

nononoooNO *hits self*...must not......must RESIST.....

 

[shaSLAM]

play street fighter.
speaking of that.
It was fun yesterday NICE!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think I'm going to try screwing around with Marth in Melee for the few times that I play it and see what happens. Maybe I -am- just a mediocre player.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

The thing that made me disenchanted with melee is when I discovered the reprogrammed controller.

I mean Shannon should be able to back me up. You remember Brandon's housemate Alex? How he was pretty bad at the game? Well, one visit he suddenly became a beast in singles (still not too good in doubles) when he was using marth. It was sudden and inexplicable. He was wavedashing left and right and moving around so quickly and just destroying us most of the time. Later on he left, and i was playing Brandon in some friendly 1v1s. I couldn't find my controller, so I just picked up Alex's. He had the L and R mapped so that the first hit would make you shorthop and the second would make you air dodge. So if you alternated them back and forth quickly you would wavedash with ease.

He wasn't a good player by any stretch of the imagination. But with a little programmable 'tech skill' he suddenly jumped up to a new level. It's also when I started to differentiate between tech skill and actual skill at the game.

...there is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin. I'm just going to call you a really bad liar and be done with it.

 

[munkus beaver]

You don't believe my story to be true?


Um....ok?

 

[munkus beaver]

At any rate, I found footage of Reflex fighting M2K at the last tourney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLn433e991o

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

He had the L and R mapped so that the first hit would make you shorthop and the second would make you air dodge. So if you alternated them back and forth quickly you would wavedash with ease.

1. I don't even know how you would swap the button controls on the circuit board to do this, but I'll leave that alone.
2. Shorthop = you let go of the jump button before you character leaves the ground. Wavedash = you airdodge right as your character leaves the ground. You don't have to short hop to wavedash, so this doesn't make a difference at all.
3. The only difference it sounds like is that instead of pressing Y/X and then L/R, you press L then R (or vice versa). How does this make wavedashing easier? You still have to time the airdodge properly, angle the control stick, and let go of the shield button fast enough to actually do anything out of it.
4. Even ignoring all the obviously wrong things, suddenly being able to magically wavedash perfectly wouldn't even make much of a difference unless his opponents really sucke.... whoops.

 

[munkus beaver]

He had the L and R mapped so that the first hit would make you shorthop and the second would make you air dodge. So if you alternated them back and forth quickly you would wavedash with ease.

1. I don't even know how you would swap the button controls on the circuit board to do this, but I'll leave that alone.
2. Shorthop = you let go of the jump button before you character leaves the ground. Wavedash = you airdodge right as your character leaves the ground. You don't have to short hop to wavedash, so this doesn't make a difference at all.
3. The only difference it sounds like is that instead of pressing Y/X and then L/R, you press L then R (or vice versa). How does this make wavedashing easier? You still have to time the airdodge properly, angle the control stick, and let go of the shield button fast enough to actually do anything out of it.
4. Even ignoring all the obviously wrong things, suddenly being able to magically wavedash perfectly wouldn't even make much of a difference unless his opponents really sucke.... whoops.

I have no idea how it was programmed. This actually confused me greatly. But it still stands: you press L or R while on the ground and it did a jump. You pressed it in the air, it did an air-dodge. I considered stealing the controller because the housemate was a tool and Brandon didn't actually care, but I reconsidered it.

And what you would do is just hit L and R back and forth in a rythmic fashion. As a person who can't wavedash on command right now and can barely short-hop, I was able to wave-dash all over the place with ease.

And as to the last comment, I am not at all surprised at your arrogance when discussing the game you love on a fetish level :embarrass Newsflash: tech-skill is an artificial way of inflating skill in melee so that people *coughM2Kcough* can get better at it by sacrificing both hygiene and social functions to practice their wave-dashes and L-cancels on final destination.

I prefer brawl which lets you get better by actually playing people, instead of encouraging you to get better by sitting at home in the darkness with a bag of cheetos and a case of redbull.

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

Is this guy for real LMAO

 

[nice1]

play street fighter.
speaking of that.
It was fun yesterday NICE!

o yea those were fun games slam

 

[munkus beaver]

No I am a figment of your imagination. Stop eating them mothballs.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Only hitting L and R back and forth would cause a wavedash? No control stick movement whatsoever? While that would be kinda cool, it would mean that you could only wavedash with that one character or others with the same jump speed, since the timing would be different for chars with faster/slower jumps. So with Marth you might perfect wd by pressing L->R, but with Fox you'd just airdodge sideways, and with Falco you'd just jump. Also, since L and R are hardwired in with a control stick movement somehow, wavelanding, airdodging, and wavedashing in place (or in a different direction I guess) would be completely impossible or severely limited.

Also wait... I just reread your post and noticed that you got your *** whupped by someone who COULDN'T PHYSICALLY SHIELD BECAUSE HIS R AND L BUTTONS MADE HIM JUMP. Which kind of makes the rest of your post sound more like "BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW" than anything intelligible.

Oh, and might I remind you that the best player in my "game that I apparently think about while touching myself" is a perfectly hygienic teenager from Cali who got where he is by playing as many people in as many tournaments as he could, while the best player in your fetish/game is the smelly loner that you're insulting.

 

[j00t]

Only hitting L and R back and forth would cause a wavedash? No control stick movement whatsoever? While that would be kinda cool, it would mean that you could only wavedash with that one character or others with the same jump speed, since the timing would be different for chars with faster/slower jumps. So with Marth you might perfect wd by pressing L->R, but with Fox you'd just airdodge sideways, and with Falco you'd just jump. Also, since L and R are hardwired in with a control stick movement somehow, wavelanding, airdodging, and wavedashing in place (or in a different direction I guess) would be completely impossible or severely limited.

Also wait... I just reread your post and noticed that you got your *** whupped by someone who COULDN'T PHYSICALLY SHIELD BECAUSE HIS R AND L BUTTONS MADE HIM JUMP. Which kind of makes the rest of your post sound more like "BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW" than anything intelligible.

Oh, and might I remind you that the best player in my "game that I apparently think about while touching myself" is a perfectly hygienic teenager from Cali who got where he is by playing as many people in as many tournaments as he could, while the best player in your fetish/game is the smelly loner that you're insulting.

I guess he means the second best player in Melee.

Munkus, if you haven't noticed, M2K wasn't near as successful in his "prime" with Fox as he is with Marth now. And FYI, Marth doesn't take as much tech skill as Fox does. So your "Newsflash: tech-skill is an artificial way of inflating skill in melee so that people *coughM2Kcough* can get better at it by sacrificing both hygiene and social functions to practice their wave-dashes and L-cancels on final destination." argument doesn't work.

 

[munkus beaver]

Also wait... I just reread your post and noticed that you got your *** whupped by someone who COULDN'T PHYSICALLY SHIELD BECAUSE HIS R AND L BUTTONS MADE HIM JUMP. Which kind of makes the rest of your post sound more like "BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW" than anything intelligible.

Shield was mapped to X. Y was regular jump.

 

[munkus beaver]

Maybe before you call me a liar and a nub you could pull your head out of your butt and not assume things? Or is that too much to ask?

 

[Wine]

ive been sick the past 3 days and i dont feel like reading the 10 pages i i missed...did i miss anything important?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Shield was mapped to X. Y was regular jump.

Ok good, I was worried.
However, the fact remains that a bad player suddenly being able to wavedash is still a bad player. Especially with Marth, because that means he's probably just going to wd and dashdance back and forth and then fsmash. Which means you just wait for the fsmash, shield, and then you get a free hit.

At any rate, though, I agree with you that Melee's technical barrier is placed a little too high. The hoops you have to jump through and the skills you have to grind before you can actually play the game that everyone else is playing can be pretty frustrating when you're just starting out, especially when everyone else seems to already have them. But to think that mastering the muscle memory will win anything at all on its own is just ridiculous. I mean... I play Samus, how exactly am I supposed to overwhelm people with tech skill?

 

[G. Vice]

But to think that mastering the muscle memory will win anything at all on its own is just ridiculous. I mean... I play Samus, how exactly am I supposed to overwhelm people with tech skill?

But you really overwhelm with tech skill as far as a samus goes. It's the same principle as the way I play ganon I suppose. Like until I'd played your samus for alot of matches I never expected those wavelanded backairs and stuff.

 

[munkus beaver]

ive been sick the past 3 days and i dont feel like reading the 10 pages i i missed...did i miss anything important?

Just senseless bickering.

 

[j00t]

Woah, we got GVice in here!

I like my waveland -> turtle lulz

 

[Winnar]

Only hitting L and R back and forth would cause a wavedash? No control stick movement whatsoever?

Well aren't we feeling pedantic today?

Also don't be stupid, if he mapped L to jump then R would still be shield/airdodge. It's idiotic comments like that that make me lose all respect for your brawl hate arguments.

Also also Melee is dead, get over it. There's a wealth of depth in Brawl that you're either oblivious to or you're choosing to ignore. I loved everything about Melee (everything, even wobbling), but Melee's metagame has been pretty firmly established. There isn't really any room for unique playstyles anymore because in most cases if you aren't playing like M2K or KDJ or whatever then you're playing wrong. You're either comboing the **** out of someone or you're getting combo'd the **** out of. If you aren't doing the previous statement then you aren't playing on the highest levels of play, which as NES n00b pointed out is the only level worth mentioning.

Melee is boring. I've seen every combo, tech skill, strategy, mindgame, etc. and I can honestly say Melee has finally hit a dead end.

Brawl is really stupid in a lot of ways, but every time I'm about ready to give it up I find a way around the stupidity. That's why I like playing as Falcon, because it forces you to see every opportunity, every opening, every...thing and capitalize on all of it. More than that it's taught me how to avoid being punished, how to recognize danger where I wouldn't see it before, and how to recover in ways I hadn't considered. I then apply these things to the rest of the characters I use (Snake in tourneys, but practically everyone in friendlies) and my game increases and the game is fun again.

...10tangents

 

[Winnar]

Also you underestimate the difference things like wavedashing can make against people who aren't used to playing against it.

It creates a brick wall that is not only intimidating (because generally being able to wavedash means you can also L-cancel, which gives you a significant advantage in any fight), but also unexpected. It's not that Munkus is **** at melee, he just didn't know how to handle the new potential threat that wavedashing presented.

It's the same with Falco's SHL, Sheik's chaingrabs, Jiggly's rest combos, etc. You can't do anything until you find an effective way around that brick wall.

 

[coach]

not a game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

 

[j00t]

not a game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

ROFL

Also, your avatar is perfect.

 

[shaSLAM]

I prefer brawl which lets you get better by actually playing people, instead of encouraging you to get better by sitting at home in the darkness with a bag of cheetos and a case of redbull.

Munkus... i actually agree with you.
wholeheartedly. and when playing brawl it requires a great amount of thinking. not so much muscle memory.
you dont have to be a typically social outcast to take an interest in brawl and in melee... lets face it... you had to not have a life...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Different people take to it more quickly than others.

What might take me two years could take another person three months. Having a great interest in a video game doesn't automatically make someone a social outcast. I play Brawl almost every day for about an hour with my older brother, but I function pretty well in my social life; same with my regular Melee Smashfests two years ago.

Granted, I didn't take to the necessary tech skill in Melee well, and it wasn't my cup of milk. To each their own, however; everyone's going to have a different experience with it.

 

[shaSLAM]

also... all you brawl haters are the reason i dont play melee...
the community isnt accepting. to both people who are not great at it, and also to people who do not go jack off to melee every night.
you hate everything and everyone that isnt all about melee and tech skill.
brawl has taught us alot. at first we were like "WTF NO GOOD TECHS!" but then realized there is much much more to a game than techs. and every other aspect of brawl still continues to improve other than techs.


again going back to munkus. i have YET to sit in my room for days mapping a controller and practicing a tech. the way i get better at brawl is by being social. when i face Kalm. When i go to tournaments. When i face anyone better than me. Nice1 came over and i learned alot. it makes us stronger as a community rather than a bunch of elitists who joke on you if you dont have as little of a life as they do.


that AND the fact that you guys have not stopped saying "BARWL SUCKS! MELEE IS AWESOME!" for over a year is kinda pathetic. give it up already. we like brawl.

 

[moogle]

melee is like football, and brawl is like flag football

and both are fun

 

[theONEjanitor]

This in itself is sorta nonsensical. If we have to go through different levels of plays, you can list a tons of reasons why mid level players lose to other mid level players which is not what you discuss when talking about a competitive game. I mean it could be any number of reasons at mid level and low level (unlike high level which would be matchup and being outsmarted). Matchups are different, the experience of the players since they have different amounts, not sheilding at this time, blah blah blah, it is a bunch of random **** as why mid level play is different. Again if you are losing to pure technical skill, then you you must not be l canceling properly or something. I am pretty sure I am not losing to anyone due to their pure technical skill.

Whatever the reason is that someone is losing, that reason was made possible by the developers of the game and the mechanics they put in the game. And those mechanics could be enough to turn people off of a game regardless of how perfect it might be at its highest level. For example, personally, the skill curve in Counter Strike is way too steep for my tastes. I'm sure its an awesome game at high levels, but at the level that I'm playing at, its not fun because its too hard to keep up. It's nonsense to say "Why are you talking about what happens at your level of play, just get better" i don't want to get better because what happens at MY LEVEL is ******** and not fun. (Note, I am not saying that melee is like this, but this is probably the argument that reflex and munkus are making).

I don't want to discuss how a lack of hitstun makes a game "deep" or the balance issues of Brawl really. I barely want to respond to these comments about Melee.

Replacing "Brawl's airdodge mixup game" with "Brawl's lack of hitstun" is an obvious strawman. But, no one's forcing you to argue. We can just go in the melee thread and teach me how to play a sexy Falcon :-D

 

[theONEjanitor]

Just senseless bickering.

this debate has been relatively civil actually *shrugs*

and everyone thinks you get better at melee by sitting at home doing waveshines on a level1 Bowser, but actually that's not true. You just become a still terrible player with good tech skill. You'll be able to beat all your friends but you'll still get 4 stocked by moogle and nesnoob.

but coincedentally, i didn't realize that until after playing Brawl.

but that just says something about the community and not really the game.