It's hard for me to remember stuff like this because I am still learning these different timings myself.
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Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)
- Thread starter moogle
- Start date
munkus beaver
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 23, 2007
- Messages
- 460
- 3DS FC
- 0619-4510-9772
That doesn't change what I said. It's something you always want to do. Every time. It is a switch mechanic. It is never something you don't want to do. It is always possible to L-cancel, it is always in your best interests to L-cancel.
*nods*
Melee's too offense-minded for me. Very fun, surely, but not something that I'm that good at, XD. It feels like there's less thought involved to me.
People usually prefer games they're better at, which is a thought.
I dislike it, myself; that's why I didn't like Third Strike's parrying system. It's almost a standard that you must have down nigh-perfectly in order to be good at it, much like Melee's L-Canceling. That sort of thing usually lowers the amount of open-ended play, as it's "do this or die."
eagletrent242
Smash Apprentice
I've heard a rumor. Possibility of Melee at Gamebox? O.O
That's true. It's wierd for me because sometimes I honestly think that I am better at Brawl than I am at Melee, except recently when I picked up Ganondorf and any time I play Andy he constantly two-stocks me with Fox and Pit.
When I mained Wario I felt like I was the bee's knees.
Winnar
Smash Lord
If you want Melee there's a tournament this weekend. I'm probably gonna go to it despite being **** at the game. I <3 AL too much you jerks.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222096 <- AL is OK at Smash (melee)
Also lots of discussion going on :o
You guys are awesome :D
NES n00b
Smash Master
The rhetoric is strange because technical skill is part of overall skill which would mean the guy with more skill won.....unless you are using some kind of weird weight for which takes "more skill" and which doesn't. Oh well I guess you mean the smarter player loses, but really that is not true. I doubt Jiggly players win because of their vast technical skill.
Got'em .
Winnar
Smash Lord
I can say that that happens if both players are not at the top level of ability. This is almost certainly true at times (with the exception of Jigglypuff and maybe Marth).
Xeedoc
Smash Cadet
Anyone wanna explain some tourney rules for me?
Slob picks
Advanced Slob picks
Stage Striking
Stage bans
I'm a noob to tourneys.
HALP
Slob picks
Advanced Slob picks
Stage Striking
Stage bans
I'm a noob to tourneys.
HALP
munkus beaver
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 23, 2007
- Messages
- 460
- 3DS FC
- 0619-4510-9772
It means that the guy who doesn't take a shower picks the stage.
In the event the stages go on strike, we have other options (usually stages that cross the picket line)
Typo. Stage Bands. After each tourney, the stages compete in a battle of the bands to see which stages get the honor of being the 'neutral stages.'
Majist
Smash Journeyman
you just made me lol in class D:
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
xD Find one of those Flyers if you can. If the start rime isn't too bad and the rules arent dumb, I'll probably be there.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
no, but falco players do.
and most jiggs players don't really win because of their amazing mindgames either btw
they win because jiggs is hard to combo in a game that focuses on combinations, and because jiggs is the king of gimpage
At the highest level of melee play, the player with the most overall skill wins...but at mid and low level play (which is where the overwhelming majority of us are at) you can CERTAINLY win just by overwhelming your opponent with your muscle memory
I'm not in the camp that says that that's a bad thing, but i want melee players to stop denying that it is true.
joot perhaps if you can give more detail about why you think brawl isn't competitive, other than omgz mk's broken
then it could be more easily addressed
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
I think its fair to say that playing smart takes more skill than learning techs.
any person of virtually any healthy age and can sit down and train their fingers to do stuff really fast. that's just a natural scientific reaction to that sort of practice.
Learning to outwit your opponent and learning to not be outwit by them is an entirely different skill set which requires creativity and intelligence and adaptation and which people develop at different rates and which some people probably never develop, and is much harder to perfect
...which is required in Melee as well as in Brawl. What's the point here?
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Can someone explain to me why multiple airdodges is "dumb" or not cool or w/e? Sure, it makes it possible to airdodge through attacks and it limits the amount of attacks you can string together, but if you do it correctly, you can still punish it very well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSC8Ts8LL0
btw, the snake is the #2 ranked player in texas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTSC8Ts8LL0
btw, the snake is the #2 ranked player in texas.
NES n00b
Smash Master
You need mindgames and spacing to win with Jigglypuff (just like any other character in any fighting game). I wouldn't say it "requires amazing mindgames," but you definitely cannot spam tech skill as implied.no, but falco players do.
and most jiggs players don't really win because of their amazing mindgames either btw
they win because jiggs is hard to combo in a game that focuses on combinations, and because jiggs is the king of gimpage
Who cares about low level? I am aiming as high as I can go and hopefully everyone else is too. So many things change from low level to high level that who cares about low level when you are aiming for high. If you are winning matches just with techskill, then your opponent has many problems and should keep practicing. If your are winning with techskill, really good safe option selects, and spacing, then you are just at a higher level than him. I know that I have to think against certain people and not have to against certain other people. It happens in all games including chess.
Except this happens in Melee, too. The weight comment was me questioning how someone has more "skill" in said game can still lose against someone who doesn't have as much skill which of course doesn't make sense.
If you guys are losing to pure techskill and spacing, then learn how to use techskill and space. Notice I include spacing because hopefully you aren't losing to pure technical skill or else you can't L cancel or something.
eagletrent242
Smash Apprentice
Aiming for the top level isn't the same as BEING on the top level in Melee. Tech skill and spacing will get you close but WILL NOT GET YOU THERE! You need the mind skill to overcome the other player's mind games as well as spacing and tech skill.
Aurorazoni
Smash Journeyman
K advanced slobs I believe would be the rule in which the loser of the match chooses his/her counter charcter last. This prevents the winner from picking a character that counters the new character selected. Or something like that.
Stage striking possibly means picking a stage that both agree on?
Ok Stage Bans are made before the match, you ban ONE legal stage (See the tourneys set maps) and your opponent gets to ban one legal stage.
Actually, xD how's about we both take a look around the forum. I'm sure a more explained answer is somewhere.
Will_
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 236
stage striking is simply both you and your opponent taking turns crossing out neutral stages until only one is left. You then play on that stage. Tournaments that have this rule usually have more than the 5 neutral stages in their roster.
ex.
Will_ and M2K are playing each other in a tournament with the 5 neutrals as starters.
Will says "Lylat Cruise". Nobody likes Lylat. There are four stages remaining.
M2K mumbles "FD". Final Destination is out.
Will strokes his beard and declares "Yoshi's Island". Two stages left.
M2K murmurs "Battlefield"
Smashville is the last stage remaining and will be the first stage of the set.
ex.
Will_ and M2K are playing each other in a tournament with the 5 neutrals as starters.
Will says "Lylat Cruise". Nobody likes Lylat. There are four stages remaining.
M2K mumbles "FD". Final Destination is out.
Will strokes his beard and declares "Yoshi's Island". Two stages left.
M2K murmurs "Battlefield"
Smashville is the last stage remaining and will be the first stage of the set.
munkus beaver
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 23, 2007
- Messages
- 460
- 3DS FC
- 0619-4510-9772
The thing that made me disenchanted with melee is when I discovered the reprogrammed controller.
I mean Shannon should be able to back me up. You remember Brandon's housemate Alex? How he was pretty bad at the game? Well, one visit he suddenly became a beast in singles (still not too good in doubles) when he was using marth. It was sudden and inexplicable. He was wavedashing left and right and moving around so quickly and just destroying us most of the time. Later on he left, and i was playing Brandon in some friendly 1v1s. I couldn't find my controller, so I just picked up Alex's. He had the L and R mapped so that the first hit would make you shorthop and the second would make you air dodge. So if you alternated them back and forth quickly you would wavedash with ease.
He wasn't a good player by any stretch of the imagination. But with a little programmable 'tech skill' he suddenly jumped up to a new level. It's also when I started to differentiate between tech skill and actual skill at the game.
I mean Shannon should be able to back me up. You remember Brandon's housemate Alex? How he was pretty bad at the game? Well, one visit he suddenly became a beast in singles (still not too good in doubles) when he was using marth. It was sudden and inexplicable. He was wavedashing left and right and moving around so quickly and just destroying us most of the time. Later on he left, and i was playing Brandon in some friendly 1v1s. I couldn't find my controller, so I just picked up Alex's. He had the L and R mapped so that the first hit would make you shorthop and the second would make you air dodge. So if you alternated them back and forth quickly you would wavedash with ease.
He wasn't a good player by any stretch of the imagination. But with a little programmable 'tech skill' he suddenly jumped up to a new level. It's also when I started to differentiate between tech skill and actual skill at the game.
munkus beaver
Smash Journeyman
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But you don't have a beard!
And m2k would mumble.
and then scratch his head in a quick, jerky manner
I do, when virtually everyone around me isn't at that point, and when I've been there for over two years of rigorous play.
Guess I was never that good at Melee. :/
Either way, it's no fault of anyone but myself. It's just a huge barrier for a person like me to overcome, and the only thing I want to do is outsmart the opponent, which isn't good enough if I can't move around as well as them.
in brawl the "skill" you refer to is the overiding ability to outwit your opponent.
someone with less "skill" (or in brawls case, wit) will not lose to a person with more "skill/wit"
these are two completely different games. what was considered to be "skillful" in melee and brawl are different. so yes, someone who is very skilled at "melee" can lose to someone who is not skilled at brawl... because they are different games and the word "skill" takes on different meanings for different games.
get it?
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
*isn't comparing melee to brawl or making comments about which is better/more competitive*
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
Mid-level and low level play are the heart and soul of any competitive community. If Ken vs. PC Chris was the only definition of competitive Melee, I would have quit a month after I started, as would have most other people I'm sure.
and I'm not saying that "being able to win with tech skill" is a bad thing. But it happens in Melee.
and again, I am not comparing brawl to melee or saying that anything does or doesn't happen in melee
and I was trying to explain that it does make sense because playing smart takes a lot more skill, therefore you could have "more skill" and lose because you have no tech skill although you might be the most brilliant strategist around.
and if someone is losing in brawl or not being as competitive as they'd like because you think airdodging is busted or because you think you can't edgeguard or because you think metaknight is busted, then learn how to play the game.
I'm pretty sure that neither me or n00b has said anything about Metaknight. Why do you keep bringing him up >_>;
If I have then I don't remember it lulz
Will_
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 236
When I don't shave I have this wimpy beard that only a half-asian like me could produce.
And m2k doesn't really shake your hand either.
It's because it was a reflexive cry for most people when they made a case for Brawl's lack of balance months ago. That tends to still be used at least a decent amount, although most people don't care to argue it now.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
The airdodging system in Brawl is one of the things that makes it a deep game.
Just as traditional 2d fighters have the hi/mid/low mix-up game, which is pretty much brilliant.
standing block stops hi and mid attack but not low
crouching block stop low attack but not hi or mid
low attacks beat hi attacks
mid attacks beat low attacks etc..
the airdodge game is also a mix up. Being in the air in brawl is not a place you want to be with most characters because it limits your options, and in most cases your priority is just getting to the ground so you can reestablish position.
You can airdodge. this beats most aerial attacks
you can attack. this beats some attacks and a waiting opponent.
the attacking opponent can attack, if he predicts the opponent will try to attack/do nothing..or if he can sneak in a quick attack before the opponent is ready to airdodge
the attacking opponent can opt to wait, if he predicts the opponent will airodge, and then attack after the airdodge.
similarly, when closer to the ground, one could airdodge fastfall towards the ground, if he think the opponent will attack, and if he succeeds he gets a free attack...
unles the attack the opponent threw out was a quick bait attack, leaving him enough time to attack again after the opponent has hit the ground
but this can be beaten by spotdodging/blocking after airdodging to the ground
but the opponent could predict this airdodge and just wait for it while blocking (which also take care of a falling attack) and grab.
So in essence, the aerial game is a game of chess in and of itself, which means the player who is the smartest and most unpredictable will win the aerial battles. Which naturally lends itself to competitive play.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
advanced slob picks is basically loser picks stage, then winner picks character, than loser picks character, in that order, no exceptions.
everything else has been sufficiently explained I believe
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
both of you have made comments (whether jokingly or not) in the past about metaknight. I dont know if your opinions have changed since then or what, but I'm not speaking to you two in particular, I'm speaking in a general sense about what people think is wrong with brawl.
and I'm not like munkus and reflex who like brawl more; i like both games pretty much equally, and much of the reason I do is because I acknowledge that they are both pretty dumb in equal proportions. :-P Which really isn't that high a proportion in either game. I would say 64 is the most broken in the series, and even it's not that bad.
When I pick up brawl or melee I dont think, "i hope X doesn't happen because X is a broken aspect of this game that really throws off the balance"
(exept wobbling)
Well, Meatknight is undoubtedly the best character in the game. There shouldn't be anything else to dispute.
Xeedoc
Smash Cadet
i hate metaknight.
eagletrent242
Smash Apprentice
I hate FACING Metaknight but don't use him. Pretty cool character in the Kirby games though ; ]
moogle
Smash Ace
i'm facebook friends with metaknight