Air/Ground/Recovery

[etecoon]

what tommy said is true, it changes depending on matchups and you only get a "____ is OVERALL best at ____", not that one character is always superior in any given situation

except meta knight on recovery, no one's recovery touches that, ever. but the people saying that he has similar status in general air or ground game are wrong, and whoever said ZSS is the only one that comes close to him for air game is just being dumb.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Let's not turn this into another "Official Metaknight Discussion" Thread.

If some people missed the point, then the old thread was obviously missing something...

 

[iRJi]

Not necessarily. He does, in fact, have the best air (arguably, ZSS might come close), ground (arguably, I suppose, oli comes close), and recovery game (not even ****ing close to contested). Along with the best options in almost any given situation (especially the ledge), but not all of these are by a massive margin (especially ground). He's the very best by a mile and a half, but certainly not unbeatable.

I would just like to point something out real fast.

By this, he should be unbeatable. Overall, while he might lose on perhaps one or two aspects, if he is a clear cut mile over anyone, then the only reason why you should win is because you actually out played the player, and not the character. Which, is what i was trying to get into about metaknight prior. If you beat a metaknight main, it is normally because you outsmarted the person playing the metaknight, not because you outsmarted the metaknight. While having player skill factored in is important to a degree, just by character terms he should be almost 100% unbeatable, assuming what you stated in the above quote is true.

I think a lot of you guys are meat riding MK more then he really deserves. There is a reason why he has 30% of points and not 100%

That's because, and only because, there are over 35 characters in the game. Combined this and what I said above, and you will see why he has only 30%, which btw, is a huge number to have.

 

[etecoon]

assuming what you stated in the above quote is true.

did u no that meta knight can make you lose a stock just by looking at u?

 

[iRJi]

did u no that meta knight can make you lose a stock just by looking at u?

Idk if you are just joking or trying to troll. If you are trying to troll, you failed.

 

[etecoon]

more joking but it was also more directed at BPC than you anyway, so even if I was trying to troll I wasn't trying to annoy you.

 

[Excellence]

Air Game - Meta Knight and Wario
Ground Game - Snake and Diddy Kong
Recovery - Meta Knight

 

[Blacknight99923]

yes 30% is a high number to have, but if other characters couldn't contest MK in anyway shape and or form he would be a lot higher point wise saying MK has the best air, ground, and recovery game with no contest IS meat riding the banwaggon



and this isn't about banning MK this is simply pointing out that your overgeneralizing him to be the best at EVERYTHING which he clearly isn't

I think snake probably is the "best" at ****** anything right in front of him if you consider the fact that he gets a d throw-garunteed techase thats a minumum of 33(12+21 fresh if you can't do math) damage if you don't take chances, if you do that number could easily increase to 70 on some characters

no other character can guarantee that much damage at any percent



and stage game and off stage game are probably better terms then air ground and recovery

 

[etecoon]

snake's dthrow almost never guarantee's damage and he has other flaws in terms of frames and zoning. I think he is among the top 3 for overall ground games but he's not a clear best IMO, I don't think any category is completely as obvious as recovery(MK) is.

 

[John12346]

For ground game, we've got the following candidates:

MK; for Dtilt, Ftilt, Dsmash, UpB, Nair OOS, and an overall amazing grab game

Snake; for Ftilt, Utilt, a brilliant grab game involving Dthrow tech chases, Grenades, and DACUS

Falco; for intense Laser spam, Phantasms up the butt, a ridiculously awesome jab which cancels into his great grab game, Ftilt, and DACUS

Olimar; for virtually everything in his moveset, lol

Diddy; for the banana game

 

[Karcist]

Ground:
Olimar
Snake
Metaknight

Air:
Metaknight
Marth
Wario

Recovery:
Metaknight
Metaknight
Metaknight
Maybe ROB

 

[Blacknight99923]

RObs recovery goes far but isn't paticularly good, very similar to pit in this aspect


and snake has a guaranteed follow up with Ftilt on certain characters and has a significant frame advantedge on several more

If you can't follow up on charzard for example you need to main a diffrent character

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu is 2nd for recovery

 

[Karcist]

RObs recovery goes far but isn't paticularly good, very similar to pit in this aspect

It's nothing like Pit's... If you hit Pit out of his, he can't start it back up again. His also has some start up time. ROB can cancel his with an attack (u air and fair are great) then start it up again, but if Pit cancels his then he can't start it up again.

 

[Kole]

Pikachu is 2nd for recovery

Pika's recovery is good, but not nearly that good...

 

[phi1ny3]

but you can't airdodge w/ ROB making him very vulnerable to MK **** (like tornado, aerials, SL (you NEED AD for SL gimps) etc.)

I'd say G&W, Pikachu, and Sonic might be better overall in the recovery department. G&W has some lag though, Pikachu's vertical hurtbox gets extended, and Sonic sux lol.

Metaknight da bess.

 

[Javon89]

I think Wario would be second.

 

[Blacknight99923]

wario does have a very good recovery

 

[6Mizu]

Are we really discussing this? W/e might as well add to it.
The following are in order:
Air:
1. MK
2. Marth

Ground:
1. Snake
2. MK

Recovery:
1. MK
2. (no one else is enough competition)

 

[Sharky]

people who don't put diddy in the rankings for ground game have issues. =/

 

[John102]

Best short hop game is wolf. =D

ololololol

 

[RATED]

Best short hop game is wolf. =D

ololololol

NO JOHNS!

 

[Grizzer]

but you can't airdodge w/ ROB making him very vulnerable to MK **** (like tornado, aerials, SL (you NEED AD for SL gimps) etc.)

I'd say G&W, Pikachu, and Sonic might be better overall in the recovery department. G&W has some lag though, Pikachu's vertical hurtbox gets extended, and Sonic sux lol.

Metaknight da bess.

i believe you can tap ROB's upB so you CAN airdodge, but i've never really played him
also, if diddy has no bananas out his ground game is below average, 1 banana above average, 2 bananas = best ground game

 

[AvaricePanda]

I honestly don't think Diddy's ground game is the best — I don't see him in the same level as Snake and Oli. While Diddy has a bunch of banana tricks, has the most developed banana metagame, and spawns them first, ultimately they're controllable by both characters. He can be very momentum based.

 

[dustymountain]

Ganondorf's ground game is better than MK's. Look at him, he's like 10 times bigger than MK. That must make him good.

*actually plays SSBB*

So, evidently, I was wrong.

Yeah... smash bros games have a tendency to not be very logical.

 

[Tommy_G]

Ganondorf's ground game is better than MK's. Look at him, he's like 10 times bigger than MK. That must make him good.

*actually plays SSBB*

So, evidently, I was wrong.

Ganon's final form's ground game must be better than Link's in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. He's like 50x bigger than Link. That must make him good.

*actually plays LoZ:OoT*

So, evidently, I was wrong.

 

[Shears]

YOSHI

super armor in his second jump, bair that eats everything, uair that kills and juggles like crazy, dair that doesnt stop, fair that spikes, and nair thats quick can kill and has sick priority

tilts are quick, jabs even quicker, smashes are fast have ridiculous priority and range and do great damage

recovery could use a little work though

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Peach. She can use her air game on the ground

WHAAAA????

But in all seriousness, MK probably wins on all accounts

I'd say G&W, Pikachu, and Sonic might be better overall in the recovery department. G&W has some lag though, Pikachu's vertical hurtbox gets extended, and Sonic sux lol.

Sonic's recovery is actually pretty terrible once you know where he goes lol. Spinshot is very easy to intercept and Up + B doesn't auto snap the ledge. His aerials aren't very good either so its not like he has anything to defend himself with

 

[Blacknight99923]

I honestly don't think Diddy's ground game is the best — I don't see him in the same level as Snake and Oli. While Diddy has a bunch of banana tricks, has the most developed banana metagame, and spawns them first, ultimately they're controllable by both characters. He can be very momentum based.

diddy has a more consistent ground game then snake however.

 

[Kitamerby]

diddy has a more consistent ground game then snake however.

Please define consistent. :V



Because as far as I know, that does NOT describe Diddy Kong.

 

[Blacknight99923]

its not as much about making reads as it is throwing a banana and following up, don't get me wrong diddy kong takes skill to play as. But his bananas provide garunteed follow ups that snake doesn't have, Snake has to make reads to be effective while diddy has to follow up.

 

[Kitamerby]

cept you can punish bananas oos with a read.

also relying on holding a banana means your ground game is anything but consistent.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I've always considered Olimar and Snake to have the best ground game. GW's air game doesn't beat MK's but it's one of the best. GW's has good aerial mobility and 2 Moves that increase his vertical mobility (Up-B which also increase his horizontal, and Dair which has 2 toggleable speeds.) He's always where he needs to be and we also have fantastic aerials and long lasting, huge hitboxes, and they all have kill potential. He's one of the few characters other than MK that can edgeguard MK and I say "few characters" only because I'm not sure if anyone else can do that.

 

[Sharky]

YOSHI

super armor in his second jump, bair that eats everything, uair that kills and juggles like crazy, dair that doesnt stop, fair that spikes, and nair thats quick can kill and has sick priority

tilts are quick, jabs even quicker, smashes are fast have ridiculous priority and range and do great damage

recovery could use a little work though

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA

sorry, had to get that out.

 

[Blacknight99923]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA

sorry, had to get that out.

I will bring some medicine for the rug burn you had to have gotten from that

 

[John12346]

Diddy's ground game WOULD be garbage if he couldn't pick up the bananas from like 500 meters away with his dash attack.

 

[Sharky]

I will bring some medicine for the rug burn you had to have gotten from that

it was worth it =P

 

[Tommy_G]

its not as much about making reads as it is throwing a banana and following up, don't get me wrong diddy kong takes skill to play as. But his bananas provide garunteed follow ups that snake doesn't have, Snake has to make reads to be effective while diddy has to follow up.

its not as much about making reads as it is throwing a banana and following up, don't get me wrong diddy kong takes skill to play as.

throwing a banana and following up, don't get me wrong diddy kong takes skill to play as.

don't get me wrong diddy kong takes skill to play as.

diddy kong takes skill to play as.

Hahahahaha.

skill

 

[iRJi]

Hahahahaha.

Comes from the Falco main, lol. Diddy takes skill to play as, actually.

 

[Tommy_G]

Comes from the Falco main, lol. Diddy takes skill to play as, actually.

Since when...it's all a bunch of stupid technical anyone can learn in a day.

Falco actually has to think about when he wants to kill and approach if the opponent he's playing aren't bad.(Oh no...lasers that have 1 frame hit-stun and do 2% btw....we need to commit a whole short hop to get a lagless laser. Nice risk-reward.)