Advertising tournaments to grow the community

[KoSa!]

Swiss would take forever, pools is perfect at large tourneys. And that's if there is enough setups otherwise it can get hectic.

 

[Eggm]

Arcadian tournament sounds fun if some one like me who would be considered a "pro" could still attend but play like mid tiers or something. That'd be fun for me.

 

[PB&J]

all i know is that every year in ga Awa(biggest anime con in the south) host a smash tourny and there are at least 150 people who show up who i dont even know. last year was the only year they didnt do melee but they did brawl..i know this year they are doing both and people who show up at cons always love smash

on another note..i started playing melee when i went to college and i seen people playing teams in the student center. they showed me a ken combo video and i was hooked ever since

i just show people the wombo combo and they go crazy..works every time

 

[KrazyKnux]

Arcadian tournament sounds fun if some one like me who would be considered a "pro" could still attend but play like mid tiers or something. That'd be fun for me.

You could still probably use higher tier characters! ^_^

 

[KoSa!]

last year was the only year they didnt do melee but they did brawl.

pssh.

on another note..i started playing melee when i went to college and i seen people playing teams in the student center. they showed me a ken combo video and i was hooked ever since

I started with zeldagais like every other fox player =D. And I suck since then.

i just show people the wombo combo and they go crazy..works every time

"Dat aint Falco!"

 

[PB&J]

i just started playing fox more in the summer of 08 though..icys was my thing and still are but ill use them more when i get better

 

[D4J]

so how do i find out about local tournies in San Diego or somwhere near there jsut for play time and lols

 

[EPsilon933]

so how do i find out about local tournies in San Diego or somwhere near there jsut for play time and lols

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=89

 

[BluePeachy100]

All I have to say is **** pools.

 

[KageMurphy]

M2K check this out, radio advertisement for a tourny this week:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10993037&postcount=145

Legit

 

[person701]

And clever at that.

 

[Dark Hart]

more small tourneys need pools

 

[Damage Points]

Pools guarantee more games and are a great idea. Good idea Dark.

 

[Mew2King]

radio advertisement for nationals would be amazing

does anyone think they could do that?

 

[PB&J]

i hate pools..i awlays beat the best player in the pool or take a game off and still dont make it out..but for now on..im handing out 4 stocks for every big tourny coming out..

you heard it first " 4 stock season has begun"

 

[metalreflectslime]

Emphasis

more small tourneys need pools

radio advertisement for nationals would be amazing

does anyone think they could do that?

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[ChKn]

Basically, what we're doing in LA the past tournament is charging a $2 dollar venue fee, then letting all entrants compete in pools for just paying the venue fee. The top 4 in pools would advance to the main bracket in which each participant would have to pay an additional 10 dollars into the pot. I think it has worked out pretty well the past tournament. Last week, we were able to get 31 people to participate.

Tournaments just need to look appealing for locals to come.

We had about 5 setups and we were able to get through pools in less than 3 hours.

 

[Bones0]

Everyone says to run pools, and I've always said newer players need more tournament matches where they don't get (totally) destroyed, but when it comes down to actually running the tournament, most people complain about pools. Either they don't think it is worth the time (tbqh, it doesn't change any results in 99% of local tournaments where everyone knows who the top 2-3 players are) or they are good and don't feel like playing a bunch of bad players.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently, and I really think the best way to go is for TOs to start doing amateur tournaments where you just take the bottom half of the placings and let them do a free tournament. It basically replaces friendlies with tournament matches of more even-skilled opponents. If you would rather play friendlies, than you don't have to enter, and if you don't, it isn't more money out of your pocket (maybe reimburse the winner for their venue fee or give them some other small prize).

 

[ranmaru]

more small tourneys need pools

I will keep that in mind. : D

radio advertisement for nationals would be amazing

does anyone think they could do that?

Maybe, if I ever do host one, I'd let the media know. oh nationals... lol. But still. Shouldn't be hard for someone running nationals to let the media know what they are doing.

I'm pretty sure the media would like to know that too, don't they like talking about things which could draw in viewers, that like VIDEOGAMES WHOOOO.

Everyone says to run pools, and I've always said newer players need more tournament matches where they don't get (totally) destroyed, but when it comes down to actually running the tournament, most people complain about pools. Either they don't think it is worth the time (tbqh, it doesn't change any results in 99% of local tournaments where everyone knows who the top 2-3 players are) or they are good and don't feel like playing a bunch of bad players.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently, and I really think the best way to go is for TOs to start doing amateur tournaments where you just take the bottom half of the placings and let them do a free tournament. It basically replaces friendlies with tournament matches of more even-skilled opponents. If you would rather play friendlies, than you don't have to enter, and if you don't, it isn't more money out of your pocket (maybe reimburse the winner for their venue fee or give them some other small prize).

Hmmm, I don't know about free tournament. There wouldn't be the "Well I am fighting for money now, so..." feeling. Also that way, you know people will NOT sandbag and play seriously towards you, no matter what skill they have.

=======================================
How about for a small tournament, (like 20-25) do pools then brackets? You'll only have 5 people left for brackets I think... or 10... lol. (Maybe)

I want to host a tournament but am still deciding on how to really do it. I want to make sure everyone has fun, benefits with experience, and that the event goes smoothly.

Also, maybe a tournament could also be advertised on facebook as well.

(I had checked out venues, nothing yet : [)

 

[PB&J]

Everyone says to run pools, and I've always said newer players need more tournament matches where they don't get (totally) destroyed, but when it comes down to actually running the tournament, most people complain about pools. Either they don't think it is worth the time (tbqh, it doesn't change any results in 99% of local tournaments where everyone knows who the top 2-3 players are) or they are good and don't feel like playing a bunch of bad players.

I have been thinking about this a lot recently, and I really think the best way to go is for TOs to start doing amateur tournaments where you just take the bottom half of the placings and let them do a free tournament. It basically replaces friendlies with tournament matches of more even-skilled opponents. If you would rather play friendlies, than you don't have to enter, and if you don't, it isn't more money out of your pocket (maybe reimburse the winner for their venue fee or give them some other small prize).

armada said people should just do 3/5 the whole tourny because it will help u with counterpicks and let u go other characters that u normally wouldnt

 

[Bones0]

@Ranmaru
Yeah, I was trying to think of a way to get around that feeling of "I'm not paying anything, so this is kind of pointless" so I mean I think if you offered to waive venue for the winner people would try. Also, I think newer players are less likely to sandbag because they are usually more interested in improving and proving to the community they are getting better. The people who usually sandbag are the players who have either been in the community for a while, but don't really care about improving anymore or the people who are so good they can sandbag and still win.

If it is still an issue with newer players, you could do a buy in, but that would just suck even more since newer players are the ones who don't think entry fees should be that expensive. I thought about using part of the entry or venue fee as prize money, but I'm not sure if the better players would think that's a rip off for them because they aren't participating in the amateur tourney. Basically I'm worried about people who know they won't place in the money in the pro bracket just sandbagging so they get to play in the amateur bracket and win money that way. I'd like to think no one is that lame, but I'm sure they are out there.

@PB@J
Well I agree, I think every tournament match should be 3/5, but I've never TOed a tournament with more than 30 people, so finishing on time has never been even close to an issue. Even if time is an issue, I don't think having 1-2 extra games per set would slow down the tournament as much as having 1-2 less setups available to play on. I agree it would help get more games in, but you'd still have newer players playing experienced ones because of seeding which is the major problem I think people have. People would much rather lose 2-1, 2-1, than lose 3-0, 3-0 or even a bo9 set, where they lose 5-0, 5-0. Basically I think the problem is the quality of the games, not the quantity.

 

[ranmaru]

@Ranmaru
Yeah, I was trying to think of a way to get around that feeling of "I'm not paying anything, so this is kind of pointless" so I mean I think if you offered to waive venue for the winner people would try. Also, I think newer players are less likely to sandbag because they are usually more interested in improving and proving to the community they are getting better. The people who usually sandbag are the players who have either been in the community for a while, but don't really care about improving anymore or the people who are so good they can sandbag and still win.

Well first you'd need to know if you can waive venue fee for the winner. Gotta pay off the venue! : D Also, isn't bringing setups to get some of the venue fee waived incouraged anyways?

Also with pricing... I think you'd need a balance, of not being too cheap or too expensive... I mean, if you have it real cheap you probably won't get good players... You wouldn't have a good pot.

Or you know what... why wouldn't you? I mean, if you had it cheaper than usually, that would mean MORE people would be fine with playing, although then they wouldn't feel like they are fighting to the death. "Oh it's just lunch money... pah" and they lose. That way, if ALOT of people did come, it'd just be a noob slaying and the good people would be the only players to benefit.

Someone answer to me why $10 is a good, balanced price for games? Like what would happen if things were lowered to $8 instead?

I am not sure if there is much more you can do about that. Hmmm, how about if you do a buy in, have a rule that states that the top 3 (or whoever got payed) aren't allowed to buy in, since they already won.

Also, we want GOOD people to show, so that we can learn from the tournament. We don't want people that aren't good at our tournaments, we DO want to improve. That is why we are fine with $10.

Hmmm, well I hear that seeding is meant for higher skilled players not to play each other early... Even so, I'm fine with playing higher skilled players NOT sandbagging me, than a match with someone similarly skilled... WAIT, if two players of similar skill play, that would bring up entertainment value, because it'd be close.

 

[PB&J]

i just think having 3/5 will make give you more tounry exp and more time to figure out your opponent as where u can adapt faster in the future

 

[Bones0]

Well first you'd need to know if you can waive venue fee for the winner. Gotta pay off the venue! : D Also, isn't bringing setups to get some of the venue fee waived incouraged anyways?

No, I can't technically waive venue, but I can pay for it myself. lol I work at the venue (Graphix) and the owner said he would do $10 venue fees (we do $10 for Halo and CoD so he didn't get why I wanted to do $5 :/), and I would get paid with $2 out of that $10, so I just decided not to get paid on Saturdays since I'm playing most of the time anyway. That lowered it to $8, and I've thought about making venue $10 with a $4 discount for bringing setups, but most people aren't going to bring a setup either way so they'll just be less likely to come because it costs more.

Also with pricing... I think you'd need a balance, of not being too cheap or too expensive... I mean, if you have it real cheap you probably won't get good players... You wouldn't have a good pot.

Or you know what... why wouldn't you? I mean, if you had it cheaper than usually, that would mean MORE people would be fine with playing, although then they wouldn't feel like they are fighting to the death. "Oh it's just lunch money... pah" and they lose. That way, if ALOT of people did come, it'd just be a noob slaying and the good people would be the only players to benefit.

Someone answer to me why $10 is a good, balanced price for games? Like what would happen if things were lowered to $8 instead?

I've asked a lot of people about $5 venue vs. $10, and while I think $5 would work best in a densely populated area, most people have to drive too far for anyone to bother with anything less than a $10 tournament. If it isn't $10, the top players simply don't care enough to show, especially if there is another tournament that does have $10 entry fees. If top players in the area don't come, mid-level players don't come. If mid-level players don't come, all you are left with is a few random kids who won't want to go because there isn't going to be more than 10 people without all the other people.

I am not sure if there is much more you can do about that. Hmmm, how about if you do a buy in, have a rule that states that the top 3 (or whoever got payed) aren't allowed to buy in, since they already won.

What happens when there are 4 good people though? That's the tricky part is drawing the line between amateur and advanced. The worst advanced player will be better than the best amateur, but the best amateur wins money if you do a buy-in so the worst advanced player could either improve past the other players or just sandbag and get knocked out earlier so he can be the best of the amateurs. Any time the amateur tournament has a higher payout for the winner than the regular tournament has for the lowest placing, there will be people tempted to sandbag just cause they know they can win the amateur tournament. It also has to be considered that at some point the winner of the amateur tournament will be good enough that they are no longer considered "amateur". It's like when you are a senior in high school then you become a freshmen again in college. You get screwed for making progress. lol

Also, we want GOOD people to show, so that we can learn from the tournament. We don't want people that aren't good at our tournaments, we DO want to improve. That is why we are fine with $10.

I wish I had read this before I tried to explain to you why $10 was necessary. lol whoops

Hmmm, well I hear that seeding is meant for higher skilled players not to play each other early... Even so, I'm fine with playing higher skilled players NOT sandbagging me, than a match with someone similarly skilled... WAIT, if two players of similar skill play, that would bring up entertainment value, because it'd be close.

Well yeah, you just summed up why I think there should be amateur tournaments. >_> I'm just going to run an amateur tournament at the next Graphix and see how it goes without an additional entry fee, just based on pride. It would help prevent sandbagging if we had PRs for amateurs as well as advanced players.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah ok, I respect you not getting paid so that you can have a affordable price. I don't think I'd be able to do that, since I'm currently looking for venues. (I would try that if I ever had the chance to work and host at the same time though)



True true we deff need top and mid level players, so we can improve. (Or see where we want to BE at skill wise)


Hmmm, well, good idea... Like host a amateur buy in tourny, and the winner, can't participate in them (at your tourny) again. If you advance to college, you can't go back to highschool... Why would you want to?

But yes, after one wins the amateur tourny, then they are no longer an "Amateur" and therefore can only participate in non-amateur tournies. That way the next time you have a buy in, another amateur has the chance to rise up.

Also make a Amateur ranking so that people can see, and if they see them winning at another Amateur tourny they will know, and other t.o's will also know, but they can't disallow that person from entering a different amateur tourny (meaning in a different tourny altogether) just so he doesn't play the same people

Probably won't be able to matchup skill but at least the next best person would have a chance at mini-glory.


Lol I answered my own question, wow. But thank you for taking the time to type out the answer, very much appreciated.




Good luck! Let me know how it goes! I might try it, if people like the idea. But yeah, PR's for amateurs aren't bad... Or just put up a list of people who win the amateur tournies. : D

 

[Takeover1806]

How about smashboards having a facebook page instead of individuals from each region making a facebook page.

 

[Kason Birdman]

But really, this is what happens when a new person enters the scene for their first tournament:
1) Gets bracket ****ed. You're the new guy, so you get to play our best player!
2) Three stocked by the best player who is warming up.... Twice. If you're lucky, the best player will switch to a low tier and embarrass you.
3) Has one honest shot at a match against an even skilled opponent in Losers. If they lose, they're done for the day.
4) For most of the matches the player has, being socially stunted like most gamers, they are done wordlessly. With sparse conversation and salt on fresh wounds, the new player leaves after being there for an hour.
5) They never find out that Brawl is 10% tournament and 90% social.

is this actually true?
when i went to my first melee tournament i did pretty bad.
but my friends and I stayed 12 hours, played plenty of friendlys, were pretty social, and had a great time.

guess the games are just different when it comes to new players

Edit:

How about smashboards having a facebook page instead of individuals from each region making a facebook page.

smashboards does have a facebook page

 

[-Ran]

It's something I've noticed with a lot of people from the tournaments I've run or assisted running in both Texas and Louisiana.

 

[Rappster]

I'm the "vice president in charge of tournaments" at my high school's games club, and so i'll start having monthly melee tournaments by december at the latest, and continue until august 2011when i go to college.

for the tournaments i have run, i put flyers in GameStop, and i'll try to get some advertising space at other retailers.

something i've considered is expanding pay outs.
for example, if 20 people show up, @ $5 each, the pot will be $100.

normally, the pay outs would be:
1st $50
2nd $25
3rd $15
4th $10

if i split it up like this:
1st $32
2nd $16
3rd $13
4th $10
5th $8
5th $8
7th $6.50
7th $6.50
new people would be more likely to get cash, but would the lower payouts drive good players away?

 

[Eaode]

Well I don't really know much about competitive brawl scene anymore but I seriously think issues with new players has something to do with Melee vs. Brawl

For example most peoples' first tourney experience with Melee (mine included) was:
Get *****, sent to losers
Get ***** in losers
Play **** tons of friendlies, learning stuff from talking to the pros who ***** you, and learning TONS from playing people your level.
Cuz in melee, when you **** someone newer at the game, you help them out, you teach them a bunch of stuff they don't know, "secrets" about the game that are key to playing, and just talk about it and have a good time

In brawl when you're getting ***** you're just getting *****, there's not much to explain or learn if you're new. Losing @ Melee is way more informative/fun than losing @ brawl imo


Obviously that means I think the smash community should do a total 180 and play melee, but that's not gonna happen

 

[BigD!!!]

do most tournaments seriously not have pools?

we have pools in literally every single tournament in the mw

we can have 16 entrants and we'll still do it

i can't imagine any reason why you wouldnt besides whiny top players who dont care about anything but money

 

[lonejedi]

I would say it mostly comes down to, did they have fun at the tournament? And how much time do the "pros" and TO's put into making the new players feel comfortable and welcome? I remember going to an 100+ tournament a few years back made up of 60% locals, and 40% regulars, and there were give aways, pizza, ect. The TO's were super busy running things, they didn't have time to make sure every single person was accounted for, which is really understandable.

Of the 60%, I'd say 3-4 people actually came to another tourney. And we had 2 rounds of pools. It honestly comes down to the community actually saying to the noob "Hey, want to play a few friendlies?" Honestly, most of us want to play friendlies with the really good people, and think playing friendlies with people who are worse than us is a waste of time. But M2K and any other pro, if you really want more people to get into the game, play with people who a lot who are just getting started, and act like you care. Even those of us who are average at best, take the time to play with those people at friendlies, I think thats what keeps people coming back when the community actually tries to help them instead of just saying "hey go on Smashboards, you'll learn a lot there."

 

[EPsilon933]

Kind of a funny story, but yesterday was my move in day at college and I printed out a sign that said:

WARNING
DO NOT
bet $ against this guy in
Super Smash Brothers

So then one time some random guy from the dorm challenged me to a $10 money match and his group of friends wanted to see it. It was funny. And today they spent an hour of their day playing ffas with me. I think doing something like this is a great way to find new players.

 

[Poltergust]

^Heh, maybe I should put a sign up like that, too. Something like:

"Pro Super Smash Bros. Brawl player in room. Discretion is advised."

I know I'm not actually pro yet, but it's the principle that matters.

 

[ranmaru]

It's something I've noticed with a lot of people from the tournaments I've run or assisted running in both Texas and Louisiana.

My first time I didn't know the VAST amount of GOOD players, and I got owned... I felt down, and I didn't want to STAY, I played some friendlies and stuff, but I left around 7 pm.

After my second and third tournies, I started to KNOW that I wouldn't win, but gain experience, and fun. It got better, and now I go to tournies all the time to get better.

: ]

 

[Palpi]

Please keep the community growing, I need more tuition money

lol jk =]

 

[Ballistics]

Gotta get on TV, G4 advertisements maybe?

 

[EPsilon933]

Gotta get on TV, G4 advertisements maybe?

G4 had Evo 2010 coverage, can Pound 5 or GENESIS 2 get it as well? We can get like 600+ to those events and Evo can get like way more than we can. I wish we had our favorite company supporting us too. I don't know about ads...

 

[SpongeJordan]

I know I'm not actually pro yet, but it's the principle that matters.

Pretty much the fact that you're here almost guarantees that you're in the top 95% of people that play Smash. That's just how it is in every gaming community.