Adjusting the Damage Ratio to 1.1 for Balance

[Ripple]

EDIT:
Although you directed your point on the game proceeding, how are you sure it has hit a standstill? If Science stopped researching Cancer after 10 years of not having any real progress, should they just stop and move on? New things are being discovered, even if it takes a large amount of time to do so.

and sometimes rather than trying to keep improving one thing over and over again, you start with something new and proceed with that

 

[Chuee]

Ripple, snake already hard counters Lucas in 1.0 >.>

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Brawl 1.1 is very interesting because i believe it will lead to a healthier metagame
it may be a sudden change but should be taken into consideration but will most certainly not have to take another two years of data gathering or as some say here "work"(pitiful)

i agree in that there isnt much more left of the metagame to be processed, its been said several times already in the thread and even by top players that their playstyle isnt really effected by the change

 

[DeadPool]

um Susa, im not saying that "I think cutting trees is bad. (For the enviroment)" would be wrong.
Matter of fact its correct but Xeylode didnt say "(for the community)"
apparently it isnt exactly what happened
i read through Renegade's(one of the proposers of the idea) posts along with others who were against him and presented valid points
then i accumulated those ideas with the aid of myself and made my opinion
i love the comparison but videogames do not quite relate or are of as much importance to life as searching for a cure for cancer
good point Ripple

 

[SuSa]

(For the enviroment) is giving it a context.

If I just said "cutting trees is bad" it has no context. You have to look at things in context. Xeylode was obviously speaking of the community and if you read the post past the first line - you would have understood that.

 

[DeadPool]

STOP SUSA!!!!!
im not saying you are WRONG about your english which you do not have degree in by the way
and Xeylode used first person speech an awful lot for it to be on the behalf the community
he was stating more of his opinion more than representing the community
and im pretty sure to know this i would have to have read more than the first line
and if im wrong let Xeylode do the talking and have you stop **** riding

 

[SuSa]

lol at this whole thing. Everyone is taking that first line out of context. The context of that statement is that I think changing the damage ratio is bad for the community. I see no reason why you all have to start jumping to the extreme of other issues where "change is bad" is proved false. I am talking about that phrase in regards to brawl, and nothing else. Change was good for humanity, but I am not talking about humanity, only brawl. Stay on topic people.

I rest my case. You don't need a degree in anything to be a reliable source of information. It just adds weight to your statements because it shows you went to school for it.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

yea like i need to go to school for smash to be able to play well at it.

Being able to debate is one thing, but at the end of the day, the LEAST you can do for your opponent is to be open to their opinion despite what you think. So very few people on these boards actually do that. Which is why we never ever got anywhere with banning MK. No one was really willing or able to agree on any one thing that MK bothered them with.

Also going to school right now in the united states wont give you even at least a decently good education. Thats an issue for another day tho.

 

[UberMario]

Hey Ripple, do you think you could analyze Fast/Lightning + Heavy Brawl (Damage ratio at 1.0) too?

I just tried it [F+H], and there are WAY more combos than in Brawl (i.e. I was able to get a character from 0-to-70 when they didn't DI properly), it feels almost Melee like, Meta's invincible planking apparently ceases to exist, and for most characters planking in general is usually not worth it. Aggressive play is more significant than defensive play aswell, the Falcon Punch is actually useful as a finisher, approaches are easier, and camping is less effective, wall infinites are more difficult to pull off aswell, if at all.

It felt so good, I almost got dizzy from the slowness when I went to test 1.1 Brawl.

 

[DeadPool]

dont rest ur case Susa cuz he also said, "Change was good for humanity, but I am not talking about humanity, only brawl. Stay on topic people."
so instead of getting off track about essays and cancer, how about we stay aboard the topic at hand
thx for showing Xeylode's post though

haha ur funny Dark 3nergy

 

[•Col•]

Hey Ripple, do you think you could analyze Fast/Lightning + Heavy Brawl (Damage ratio at 1.0) too?

I just tried it [F+H], and there are WAY more combos than in Brawl (i.e. I was able to get a character from 0-to-70 when they didn't DI properly), it feels almost Melee like, Meta's invincible planking apparently ceases to exist, and for most characters planking in general is usually not worth it. Aggressive play is more significant than defensive play aswell, the Falcon Punch is actually useful as a finisher, approaches are easier, and camping is less effective, wall infinites are more difficult to pull off aswell, if at all.

It felt so good, I almost got dizzy from the slowness when I went to test 1.1 Brawl.

Please stop comparing lighting/heavy brawl to the 1.1 damage ratio. Heavy/lightning brawl is a dramatic change compared to the change to 1.1, and is never going to catch on at this point in the game. x_X

 

[Ripple]

seriously susa, if you're not going to contribute, just leave and stop posting here. all you ever do in every thread you post in is argue with someone. I don't care if you're right or not. help or leave

this goes for everyone else

 

[SuSa]

I was asking a question regarding ftilt, which you answered at a later time. However this question

Spoiler

(because all my questions have to be Snake related he's the character I know most about and can use examples for )

caused an issue with another member, which led to the argument. Maybe someone shouldn't get pissy that I'm focusing on Snake because he's my main.

 

[solecalibur]

I prefer constructive criticism, as Im not against this idea but when this argument is actually presented in front of the BBR and they have criticism and doubts what is your reply going to be then?

I should be testing this tonight or tomorrow

 

[JOE!]

The problem is that that's *all* you're doing is arguing about snake, when this is a thread about GLOBAL change


also, for relavence:

Yoshi *is* alot better, Bair -> tilts work nigh flawlessly, and eggs with better shield pressure extend is camp game a bit

Also, I think even ganon may fare a tad better. Some moves having more KB means its actually a bit harder for him to be juggled, and 10% more KB on HIS moves is just lulz when he actually hits

 

[Dark 3nergy]

who else hasnt been played around with yet?

if we havent already we should gather up posts, and data/information and add it to the OP so we can keep track of our process

last thing we wanna have happen is someone test something someone already tested

 

[UberMario]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before or not, but I didn't notice any difference in Falco's chain grab when I tested 1.1.

 

[•Col•]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before or not, but I didn't notice any difference in Falco's chain grab when I tested 1.1.

You're doing it wrong, then.

At least 10 people have stated that his chaingrabs either don't work at all on some characters, or they don't last NEARLY as long as they do in 1.0.

 

[Ripple]

more testing results.

it looks like snake WILL in fact be the best character in the game. but this is just based on my testing.

marth will be the second best on the game

and MK will be the third best


Fox looks like he will be the 4th best character in the game but he still has 2 hard counters.

 

[comboking]

Anyone up for some testing on Wifi?

 

[EPsilon933]

Fox looks like he will be the 4th best character in the game but he still has 2 hard counters.

What's so special about Fox?

 

[Ripple]

What's so special about Fox?

he is guaranteed at least 4-5 up tilts starting at 0% now, not 2.

lasers

dair > upsmash kills at 100% ON SNAKE

up air kills at 80% ON SNAKE

 

[xDD-Master]

MK will still be best lol.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

How exactly will Snake be the best? I know he defidently will be second, atleast, but why 1?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

he can kill alot sooner, remember the 1.1 gives more hitstun and knockback. This being why fox could realistically be 4th is simply if he can combo into his usmash or has more combos into it then i dont see why he wouldnt

 

[Flutter NiTE]

Yes, but everyone can kill a lot sooner.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

true, but how safe exactly are their kill moves, that and how fast they come out

then you have to consider stale moves. How stale can it be before it kills? Does it even need to be fresh?

infact, not many people here have talked about staleness of moves....hmm would staleness even matter if you can kill sooner?

 

[Flutter NiTE]

true, but how safe exactly are their kill moves, that and how fast they come out

*looks at MK's Dsmash*


Anyway, I see your point, but for characters that already CAN kill early in 1.0, (think Ike) Imagine how early they kill in 1.1?

Ike can kill Mario with a fully charged Fsmash in the middle of the stage at 27%.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

actually nitewing youve reminded me of something. Wasnt there a thread somewhere that said while charging a smash attack you receive even more knock back if you were to get it? Has anyone tested this yet?

also re read my posted i edited it, staleness is another factor to consider as well. Especially since one of my main poking/damaging tools gets staled alot.

In the case of Ike, good ikes can and rightfully should be able to kill you out of a hard read. Infact i believe most characters should.

 

[xDD-Master]

lol yes XDDDDD

MKs Nair und Up-B and DSmash will kill sooner.
Diddy will kill sooner (Remember how hard it is for diddy to kill)

This argument is stupid.


Its not that Snake will now kill you at 0% with Uptilt xD

 

[Dark 3nergy]

no one is arguing number 1, number 2 if your not going to post something constructive then please quit spamming this thread with useless content. If your going to say **** like that and not have the gusto to discuss it then why should anyone care what you think.

 

[Staco]

I don´t think it´s a good idea to change the game physics, just to have less chaingrabs and a less effective tornado.
CGs and the tornado are both not broken and beatable by not getting grabbed/tornado´ed.
They are both normal elements of the game and I don´t think, that they should be taken out of the game.
There are also some new stupid moves or cgs with a new damage ratio, which aren´t found yet.

 

[Xebenkeck]

With every throw in the game having more knockback i find it very hard to believe there are more chaingrabs.

 

[Ripple]

I don´t think it´s a good idea to change the game physics, just to have less chaingrabs and a less effective tornado.
CGs and the tornado are both not broken and beatable by not getting grabbed/tornado´ed.
They are both normal elements of the game and I don´t think, that they should be taken out of the game.
There are also some new stupid moves or cgs with a new damage ratio, which aren´t found yet.

1. we aren't changing the physics of the game. everything getting 20% stronger =/= physics change.

2. you can't just have "a less effective tornado or chaingrab" such a suggestion shows you don't know what you're talking about.

3. we never said they were broken and "we" are not removing them. the game itself is adding hitstun and knockback to these moves.

4. they are normal in 1.0 and in 1.1 just to a less degree. assuming we started on 1.1 and we wanted to switch to 1.0 what would you say? "chaingrabs aren't normal so we shouldn't add them"? LOL

5. any move that is "stupid" in 1.1 is just as stupid in 1.0 but less so by a degree of 20%. and no, the way this game works there will be no new chaingrabs.

can we please have intelligent people post in here

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i agree with ripple, all the possible chain grabs we've already found were due to 1.0 physics and the nature in which the CG animation was performed. There will not be any sort of new type of chain grab if we added MORE knock back. What a chain grab needs to obviously thrive is to have LESS knock back.

 

[Xebenkeck]

5. any move that is "stupid" in 1.1 is just as stupid in 1.0 but less so by a degree of 20%. and no, the way this game works there will be no new chaingrabs.

i agree with everything else you said except this, i guarentee you snakes utilt will be 10X gayer in 1.1 than it is in 1.0.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You mean 1.1x? :V

 

[Ripple]

You mean 1.1x? :V

bad joke is bad.

and incase you were serious, everything is actually increased by 20%, not 10%

 

[z3r0C0oL]

1.1 is the best thing since sliced bread!

Do the BBR have the balls to recommend this?

My guess is no.

I hope lots of T.O. pick up on this.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

Unfortunatly a lot of TO's rely on the BBR for guidance to make rules.