Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Zankoku]

How do you get back without footstooling him? What happens if he footstools you instead of using C4?

 

[stealth3654]

To foot stool, the person has to be above the other person. In that position, the C4 wouldn't stick to you. You have to be next to him. I would only try it maybe once a match if at all.

 

[Zankoku]

Not true. In the air you pretty much only have to be overlapping to footstool someone.

 

[stealth3654]

Oh. Then I guess whoever wants to do this in tourney should try it out in friendlies first and see how well it works for them.

 

[<π]

I just wait above him and toadstool after the explosion. if you can get C4ed that is pretty much always an option.

but yeah treat Ally's snake like every other. needle camp. use grabs a lot. ftilt to usmash or jab to nair for kills. If possible keep fair fresh when he starts getting high in percent so you can just kill off of cypher.

Um... I think halbred is a good stage versus snake you'll kill at lower percents and it is easier to camp him.

 

[Zankoku]

It also helps negate Sheik's normal trouble of getting back on stage from the ledge when the stage moves from the flying platform onto the deck of the Halberd.

 

[-dMT-]

Halberd would work... provided one avoids utilt like the plague.

 

[-Mars-]

As long as you make sure to not get infinited by his dthrow Japes is not a bad option either.

 

[-dMT-]

I'm still mainly thinking FD and Smashville myself. I like to juggle my Snakes.

But yea, I certainly plan on having this recorded for better or for worse.

 

[Punishment Divine]

The title of this thread is a tongue twister

Just passin by

 

[-Mars-]

I hate SV against Snake. That platform gives him too much control over your movement imo.

 

[saviorslegacy]

You can DI and/or tech out of all that SL, and reverse chain lock isn't a true lock.

you can smash DI out really fast.

if the situation arises use it. but you can look at the percents and just expect it.

You can DI/tech the Needle Lock set ups. However, they don't do it every time and your Needle's will still hit them.
0% risk

Also, the Reverse Chain GROUND Lock as legit as GRing.

So... I'm seriously considering a MM against Ally tomorrow, at Poly Brawl.

vs Snake, any advice anyone can give me so i can look into it NOW!

I done my best in this match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7vRwAG2ow to exploit Snakes weakness's.
It was like 2 am and online so neither of us played at out fullist. He usually beats me. lol

Pretty much do this:

SH> Needle> landing Nair is good because it can go over Snakes f-tilt. The Needle Cancel reduces your hurt box so that you do not get hit. You can then attack between the two attacks with Nair.

Try and stay away from him and force him to approach you.
The best way to do this is by spamming the **** out of Needle's.
When he gets close either retreat some and Bair, f-tilt, Fair, out speed him with jab or play tricky with Nair/Vanish. If you want to you can out space his f-tilt and punish with Chain.
Try and lead Nair, f-tilt, jab, Fair and Bair into a grab.
Ally is smart so try to U-Throw him a lot. D-Throw blows up Nades.
Also, try and force air dodge's with AC'd Uairs. Beware of Nades though........
Other than that you should just play the edge very well. Try to keep him at the ledge where he can't utilize all of his stuff. He can't plank. lol Beware of Nades pulls as always. Sheik is light and doesn't need to be taking unnecessary damage.

Passive aggression is the key.

To foot stool, the person has to be above the other person. In that position, the C4 wouldn't stick to you. You have to be next to him. I would only try it maybe once a match if at all.

I usually don't go for the footstool.
I prefer to mess up his C4 recoveries with Needle's. He will usually pull out cypher but more than likely he just set himself up for a stage spike. Bair him into the stage whether he blows himself up or not.

Not true. In the air you pretty much only have to be overlapping to footstool someone.

I done some research on footstools and Ankoku is pretty much accurate.
If Sheiks knees however are just above their head you can footstool though.

Footstools have such a small hit box and hurt box that I just gave them up because a tiny bit of DI can mess it up completely.

Halberd would work... provided one avoids utilt like the plague.

NO! Avoid Halberd! Low ceiling= bad and you aren't gonna avoid u-tilt!
GO WITH FD!!!!!!!!
IF NOT FD THEN GO WITH SMASHVILLE!!!!!! He will be inclined to play at Smashville because of the moving platform. Just play smarter and avoid the platform. It's only scary when you are, A stupid or B recovering.

If all else fails go to BF. You can use the Chain pretty well under the platforms and Sheik is an expert at playing those platforms. They also give you a tipper USmash set up. lol, to good.

As long as you make sure to not get infinited by his dthrow Japes is not a bad option either.

JJ is alright. Falco's have given it a bad taste in my mouth.... but Snake is not Falco. <,<
Sheik can use tether really well here. Take advantage of that. Also... Vanish Boosting is good here as well.
From what I read in the PSA this hit box of Fair is a semi spike:

The one following hits them behind you for some reason.....
Try to semi spike him with this and interrupt anything with Needle's.
If he goes to get out of the water interrupt him with Needle's again. Follow him to the edge... but for heavens sake don't get infinited. He will go for a grab/shield for sure (unless he thinks he can't grab you) so use that to your advantage. SH> B reversal> Needle will punish this and it should push him off. Hammer >B to grab the ledge quickly BTW..... -_-

 

[Judo777]

you should NEVER use the chain on snake thats just dumb. You cant afford to take hits and he can throw grenades at you. Even if you do manage to hit him have fun with a frame 1 grenade pull. Offstage might be the only place to use the chain but using it on stage to outspace his ftilt is just ********.

 

[saviorslegacy]

you should NEVER use the chain on snake thats just dumb. You cant afford to take hits and he can throw grenades at you. Even if you do manage to hit him have fun with a frame 1 grenade pull. Offstage might be the only place to use the chain but using it on stage to outspace his ftilt is just ********.

I do my home work:

The Chain attacks every 2 frames with 3 frames of stun. SH if necessary to double everything.

Attacks that cannot penetrate:
Missile
Nades
every physical attack

Attacks that can penetrate:
a missile dropped from above
C4 (can only get there from above)
mortar (lol)


Notice how every attack that can penetrate has to be done from above?
Guess what.... Chain is safe on Snake. Chain is only 100% safe on a tiny itty bitty bit of people.
I consider it to be unsafe on people like Pit who can simply DI out and quickly follow up with an arrow.
Not people who have to set up a way to hurt you over the course of 3 seconds or better. By that time we have drawn it back in.

 

[Zankoku]

Do you seriously believe you are consistent enough to have the chain hit on every single 2-frame interval on a character in the air?

Do you seriously believe anyone can be?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Do you seriously believe you are consistent enough to have the chain hit on every single 2-frame interval on a character in the air?

Do you seriously believe anyone can be?

SH double's everything so that you can lock him legitimately.

I believe that I might some day be able to.
With the c-stick added it makes it a lot faster.
I have Chain locked a ZSS trying to jab out. He was able to jab but that was about half way through the lock.
As I said, one of these days I hope to actually lock someone every time I want to.

 

[Dcold]

If snake throws a nade a hits the chain it blows up on you, so using Chain against him isn't smart

 

[saviorslegacy]

If snake throws a nade a hits the chain it blows up on you, so using Chain against him isn't smart

The Chain out ranges his Nade.

 

[Judo777]

ok firstly i have done my homework too. Nothing destorys snakes nikita except for a 9 hammer from gw. So the chain does not stop the nikita it simply redirects it but the direction t gets hit is kind of random. So if the snake holds the nikita out he can direct it or run it into if he trys hard enough. Secondly yea chain out ranges grenade.....provided you can hit the grenade at max range perfectly every time he throws it meaning you have to have perfect reaction time to do so.

3 frames of hitstun with an attack every 2 frames means that if u have 1 frame of error (1/60 of a second) or you ARE getting naded. because it comes out on frame 1. So you better be able to hit .

Also i have asked to see the frame data on the SH chain and i want it tested because i dont even believe that it hits every 4 frames either i want to see the frame data or i dont want it used for discussion.

 

[stealth3654]

Halberd would work... provided one avoids utilt like the plague.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8YxgUTEx9w&feature=related

2:25.... You aren't going to avoid the up tilt.


Do not go to BF. Snake can lay C4, mines, and nades on the platforms. Also, Snake can hit through the platform with his up tilt. If he grabs you on the platform, get ready for a dthrow tech chase. Also, if you do what SL said and try to stage spike Snake, it won't work on Ally. He definitely will wall tech and up B to the stage.

 

[-Mars-]

Believe it or not even Ally misses wall techs.....so you wan't him to not stagespike? lol.

 

[saviorslegacy]

ok firstly i have done my homework too. Nothing destorys snakes nikita except for a 9 hammer from gw. So the chain does not stop the nikita it simply redirects it but the direction t gets hit is kind of random. So if the snake holds the nikita out he can direct it or run it into if he trys hard enough. Secondly yea chain out ranges grenade.....provided you can hit the grenade at max range perfectly every time he throws it meaning you have to have perfect reaction time to do so.

3 frames of hitstun with an attack every 2 frames means that if u have 1 frame of error (1/60 of a second) or you ARE getting naded. because it comes out on frame 1. So you better be able to hit .

Also i have asked to see the frame data on the SH chain and i want it tested because i dont even believe that it hits every 4 frames either i want to see the frame data or i dont want it used for discussion.

OOps, I mean redirecting it. lol
Just use downwards strokes to make it go down.
That said, if Snake has the chance to use Nikita then you shouldn't have the chain out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKsVVmOGV9I 0:21

IDK how to look into that file. I am just going off of what hot garbage told me.

Believe it or not even Ally misses wall techs.....so you wan't him to not stagespike? lol.

Correct... I say go for it.
If stage spikes are obsolete ten whats with the hate on D3's Bair being used as a stage spike?

 

[-dMT-]

I love fair stage spikes. Granted, Snake seldom visits the area near the edge where he is to be stage spiked, and when he does, grabbing Cypher is almost always a better option.

 

[Dcold]

I love fair stage spikes. Granted, Snake seldom visits the area near the edge where he is to be stage spiked, and when he does, grabbing Cypher is almost always a better option.

I LOVE DOING THAT. When he comes up close to the sides and i'm on the ledge, i drop down and fair him to stage spike, then recover back to the ledge.

 

[ThreeSided]

Does Needle Storm > DACUS work? I keep hearing that one, and have only tried it once or twice without success. I'll probably be able to easily learn it if I actually try, but I want to make sure it's worth it.

 

[Dcold]

Does Needle Storm > DACUS work? I keep hearing that one, and have only tried it once or twice without success. I'll probably be able to easily learn it if I actually try, but I want to make sure it's worth it.

It's worth it due to it's aspect of pressure, but it's not a true combo. Getting hit by so many things at once is hard to keep up with. I'd say worth using. I use it.

 

[stealth3654]

Does Needle Storm > DACUS work? I keep hearing that one, and have only tried it once or twice without success. I'll probably be able to easily learn it if I actually try, but I want to make sure it's worth it.

What Dcold said: it's not a true combo. Use needle storm and see what the opponent does. If he approaches you, then use DACUS after needle storm next time. If he stays in place or goes on the defensive, don't try it. It's all about prediction.

 

[Leafplayer452]

Hmm these boards seem dead, I want life on this board

/more life

 

[<π]

Does Needle Storm > DACUS work? I keep hearing that one, and have only tried it once or twice without success. I'll probably be able to easily learn it if I actually try, but I want to make sure it's worth it.

YES CT!!!!!!

it isn't true by any means. it can work but if people expect it it isn't hard to punish.

 

[j0s3ph]

I've tried needles > dacus probably about 5 or 6 times, and it has only worked once. I don't really use it because of that other than occasionally

 

[saviorslegacy]

I've tried needles > dacus probably about 5 or 6 times, and it has only worked once. I don't really use it because of that other than occasionally

same
Needle's> DACUS is not smart of you.
If you want to get all technical try Fair> DACUS or Nair2> DACUS.
The percents that they work at are kill percents.
Also, reverse strong Nair> DACUS can set up a tipper. I'm unsure but reverse Fair might set up for a tipper as well.

I plan on making more Sheik toturial vids for my Sheik guide after finals. @-@
I'll make my DACUS vid top priority.

 

[rathy Aro]

Needles put you on disadvantage iirc. Why would needles>DACUS ever work against someone who knows the match up? lol

Anyway, I was just at my first tourney yesterday! It was mad chill and much friendlier than I expected (EC is just chill like that). I did terribly losing to two diddys, one in my first round of winners and second in my first round of losers. I should have harassed DMT to coach me or help me pick stages, but he looked so busy I didn't want to bother him. lol On that note, it was an amazing tourney dmt, good ****.

 

[iLight]

^^^ truth

needles to dacus only works on people who arn't expecting it, or if you hit them with needles as they are falling then dacus works sometimes because they have the extra lag while finishing falling to the ground

best imo is dash dance to dacus or bair to dacus to punish them mid range because there is really only so many things they can do after you space a bair on them, even if they shield the bair they will still probably drop it right after and try to respond by either throwing out an attack or jumping OOS in which case you get to sweet spot them. all you have to do to land it is space the bair properly, dash away then dacus back towards them after they respond to your movement

 

[rathy Aro]

That sounds mad sexy. *practices dash dance to DACUS*

Did you ever get your vid vs razer up? I'm curious at how sheik does vs a high level snake.

 

[saviorslegacy]

If you want to do something hard try landing Nair> DACUS in the opposite direction



Anyways.... I just got word that Nesn00b passed away in a car crash on Tuesday......

 

[Dcold]

If you want to do something hard try landing Nair> DACUS in the opposite direction



Anyways.... I just got word that Nesn00b passed away in a car crash on Tuesday......

Who's that? That's horrible

 

[Rawnie]

Melee player.

I'm gonna start posting here. I've lurked here for the longest time. Sheiks. <3

 

[saviorslegacy]

Who's that? That's horrible

I didn't know him, but I respect the dead.

 

[rathy Aro]

If you want to do something hard try landing Nair> DACUS in the opposite direction



Anyways.... I just got word that Nesn00b passed away in a car crash on Tuesday......

Once I have all the basics down and I'm good with the important matchups I intend to look up all the random **** you post and practice all of it. lol

****..... I've seen his posts around and I heard he was getting mad good (he didn't main ness iirc). Its odd to think I'll never see him post again or that his name won't come up in anymore results.

edit: Good **** Rawnie! We could always use more minds here at theorycraft centr- I mean the sheik boards.

Spoiler

<3 sheik boards

 

[stealth3654]

He was a melee player that I see at a monthly tourney.

If anyone is interested, here is the link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256913