Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[rathy Aro]

Actually I think it does give you less invincibility. At least that's what I was told.

 

[<π]

I didn't know that. I do know grabbing the edge regularly forces you to stay on it for almost half a second. with invul for about 3/4ths a second total.

 

[iLight]

Ok to clarify, tethering gives you much less invincibility than regular grabbing. To regain regular invincibility after you tether the ledge, you can break off tether again > tap down on control stick to break chain then jump and grab the ledge > follow with aerial pressure to gain safety or whatever he's talking about afterwards =]

but no, to clarify, tethering the ledge then hitting up to go into ledge grab mode, does not give you the same invincibility as regular grabbing the ledge

@<3 you can side break or down break from the ledge almost right after you grab it, i'm not sure you have to wait even 1/2 a second unless you try to get up attack/ledge jump/ledge stand up/ledge roll

 

[<π]

Hmmm... I'll retest I guess.

 

[Spelt]

even if tethering gives sheik less invincibility, being able to drop off and aerial almost instantly is still pretty ****.

 

[saviorslegacy]

even if tethering gives sheik less invincibility, being able to drop off and aerial almost instantly is still pretty ****.

I abuse it to return to the stage quickly.

 

[Spelt]

I wanna know if there is enough invincibility frames to cover the startup of vanish.
surprise kill +1.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Vanish's hit box goes below the ledge.
We should be using Vanish to knock people out and then chain jacking the wind box to keep people back from the ledge.

 

[Dcold]

Random Question to everyone: Should me make [another if there was one] a Stage thread for Sheik? Like rate how good she is on a stage even though she doesn't have many horrible stages. Basically like how the Dedede boards have it, saying who to ban that stage against, who to CP that against, and who to Strike it against. Just was thinking about it. [Probably already brought up before]

 

[Spelt]

i can't even chain jacket while i'm practicing it.
the chances of me doing it in an actual match are like ... non-existent.
can you even chain jacket a wind box?

 

[Zankoku]

You can only jacket the Vanish's wind.

I've never gotten a chain jacket when I've explicitly wanted one, but I've randomly done the correct timing for it about once every 70 games or so.

 

[Spelt]

being able to jacket vanish's actual hitbox would be pretty awesome though.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

correct chain jackets take like 3 hrs of practice to get it perfect. i've noticed my chain jacket is perfect but i never use it.

 

[saviorslegacy]

i can't even chain jacket while i'm practicing it.
the chances of me doing it in an actual match are like ... non-existent.
can you even chain jacket a wind box?

It is easier to get than it seems.

You can only jacket the Vanish's wind.

I've never gotten a chain jacket when I've explicitly wanted one, but I've randomly done the correct timing for it about once every 70 games or so.

lol, it an be bad at times though......

correct chain jackets take like 3 hrs of practice to get it perfect. i've noticed my chain jacket is perfect but i never use it.

I have spent more than this testing it.....

 

[choknater]

i'm chaining more but never jacket, screw that :D

 

[Spelt]

It is easier to get than it seems.

again, i have never chain jacketed.
ever.
obviously it is the harder thing in the world for me.

 

[iLight]

again, i have never chain jacketed.
ever.
obviously it is the harder thing in the world for me.

me too

10xtruth

 

[saviorslegacy]

Panzies, I put I video up showing the release box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdzABnFohLM


If you can freakin learn DAUS then inputting the Chain at a certain time in your SH isn't much harder.
I've even been able to jacket from a ledge jump or a full hop on purpose.
All you gotta do is get a feel for her fall speed and chain release. After that apply both of them.

Now I personally like NEVER use it because I have no need to. However, using Vanish to protect the ledge and then following up with a Vanish jack is a good idea, one that I plan on using.

 

[Spelt]

me too

10xtruth

I feel better now that i know i'm not alone... xD

Now I personally like NEVER use it because I have no need to. However, using Vanish to protect the ledge and then following up with a Vanish jack is a good idea, one that I plan on using.

I also don't really have any use for it, which is why i'm not spending hours upon hours trying to master it.
When i do use a chain in a match, i sh it just in case i do it accidentally.
but that's as far as i go.

 

[<π]

it isn't that bad it is tricky to figure out but once you know it you got it. not as hard as DACUS but not as practice either. especially against good characters.

 

[-Mars-]

I still can't do it after nearly two years.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I also don't really have any use for it, which is why i'm not spending hours upon hours trying to master it.
When i do use a chain in a match, i sh it just in case i do it accidentally.
but that's as far as i go.

Vanish Chain Jacket Ledge Guard is like a constant FLUDD but it can be focused better and has less range.

I still can't do it after nearly two years.

How much hype was there over the chain jack?

 

[Judo777]

I actually sat down and learned the chain jacket for a while and i can still do it even in a match from time to time but tbh its really not that useful.

The biggest problem with the chain jacket as i have said is that you are losing the chains amazing priority in exchange for power which is imo isnt worth it. The only 2 worth while chain jacketed moves are fsmash and bair mostly for the range and knockback. But the problem is when you jacket those moves someone can just hit the chain and it with the chains new hitbox and make you retract your chain. I personally believe that SH chain is way better. Unless u wanna surpirse someone with fsmash's hitbox on ur chain and u get it first try i dont think its worth it. I even used it to kill a rob in match once but that is the ONLY time i have ever gotten any good out of chain jacketing. Most of the time i get hit for it.

Also on a side note i have screwed around alot with chain jacketing vanish's wind and its not near as good as you think. Jigglypuff can walk through no matter how hard u try and stop her and she can fly through it if you guard her offstage its very weak compared to other wind like moves such as the fludd.

Also i disagree and think it is much harder than DACUS. I can DACUS like 70% of the time i try now. Chain Jacket is harder and requires alot more concentration.

 

[Zankoku]

Obviously DACUS is easier. Its timing window is three times the size.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I actually sat down and learned the chain jacket for a while and i can still do it even in a match from time to time but tbh its really not that useful.

The biggest problem with the chain jacket as i have said is that you are losing the chains amazing priority in exchange for power which is imo isnt worth it. The only 2 worth while chain jacketed moves are fsmash and bair mostly for the range and knockback. But the problem is when you jacket those moves someone can just hit the chain and it with the chains new hitbox and make you retract your chain. I personally believe that SH chain is way better. Unless u wanna surpirse someone with fsmash's hitbox on ur chain and u get it first try i dont think its worth it. I even used it to kill a rob in match once but that is the ONLY time i have ever gotten any good out of chain jacketing. Most of the time i get hit for it.

Also on a side note i have screwed around alot with chain jacketing vanish's wind and its not near as good as you think. Jigglypuff can walk through no matter how hard u try and stop her and she can fly through it if you guard her offstage its very weak compared to other wind like moves such as the fludd.

Also i disagree and think it is much harder than DACUS. I can DACUS like 70% of the time i try now. Chain Jacket is harder and requires alot more concentration.

Here is my opinion on its use's:

Bair:
Can leads to a lock that does 60%ish

FSmash:
no comment as of yet but it is useful
(some of you know what I mean)

Vanish:
While not good at stopping Jiggs I have used it to push a Link back when he was recovering. Other than that I have never tried to perform the Vanish jack.

Jab:
Jab is basically like the normal chain but with a plus.
Someone can hit the Chain and cancel it with anything.
If they were being locked you can follow up with Dash Attack, or if they are high maybe a DACUS.

Obviously DACUS is easier. Its timing window is three times the size.

So does that make Chain jacketing only 1 frame of an opportunity?

 

[Judo777]

i dont think jab chain jack can lock. If it can and they hit your chain it would clank and cancel their move to show you wouldn't have any safe moves cause they could block w/e u do.

 

[saviorslegacy]

i dont think jab chain jack can lock. If it can and they hit your chain it would clank and cancel their move to show you wouldn't have any safe moves cause they could block w/e u do.

Yes but would they expect such?

 

[Spelt]

What ankoku said.



and what are the chances of you pulling off both a complete vanish and chain jacket before the opponent gets close to the ledge?
especially if you knocked them away on the opposite end of the stage.

 

[Dcold]

What ankoku said.



and what are the chances of you pulling off both a complete vanish and chain jacket before the opponent gets close to the ledge?
especially if you knocked them away on the opposite end of the stage.

If you get the exact timing down, it really screws them up. Knock them away or even with the vanish itself, then HOPE TO THE CHAIN GODS THAT IT WORKS

 

[Judo777]

actually SL i would be more inclined to think that if they did attack the chain yes they would expect that exactly lol cause that's the only time you can attack the chain. I would think they would expect it more than you would considering they are the ones attacking lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

and what are the chances of you pulling off both a complete vanish and chain jacket before the opponent gets close to the ledge?
especially if you knocked them away on the opposite end of the stage.

Actually Vanish's hit box covers below the stage. With correct timing you can remain on the stage and hit a foe attempting to grab the ledge with Vanish. After that just jack it.

If you get the exact timing down, it really screws them up. Knock them away or even with the vanish itself, then HOPE TO THE CHAIN GODS THAT IT WORKS

It is pray DC, pray.

actually SL i would be more inclined to think that if they did attack the chain yes they would expect that exactly lol cause that's the only time you can attack the chain. I would think they would expect it more than you would considering they are the ones attacking lol

Well, it looks like a normal Chain. You can't really tell it's a jack.
It has happened to me once and I mistook it for chain canceling.

 

[choknater]

hey guys u should get at me

www.facebook.com/choknater

 

[Judo777]

alright i can see the jab jack being somewhat useful. Good if you could do it to confuse em

 

[stealth3654]

I heard from a friend that apparently Sheik can GR > running up smash MK. No, I do not mean a DACUS. I mean actually running and hitting with up smash. I don't know if using this method will make the up smash hit with the tip or the side, though.

I have yet to try this, but I though I would post it here and see if anyone wanted to test this, too.

 

[Zankoku]

It's a ridiculously small window and only lets you land the side hit, but yeah, it's possible.

 

[iLight]

badnewsbear is going to load the one match i saved of me vs razer from Phase 3 in dallas from a week ago soon. We didn't save the second which was way closer on FD, i'll probably ask for some input because there were a bunch of instances where i felt like i was hitting him but instead my hitbox just floated right through him. Bear says its probably because he buffers spot dodge, which is hard to beat =/

 

[saviorslegacy]

How to keep yourself going.

I feel as if I will never finish trying to learn Sheik.
Now this post is beside prediction skills and match up knowledge, but more on how to improve your Sheik.
This might only be useful for people that already know how to use Sheik/understand Sheik well.


#1 The Chain
For the love of Christ use that d*mn Chain!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

sorry Lord.....

Anyways, it is a gigantic disjoint. AH! Seriously, you aren't using your heads.
You look at it and go:
"It takes like 21 frames to start up... that's like a whole second!"
Well of course you're not going to use it as an approach you dip sh*ts.

The idea is to out space and punish with it. Take into consideration what the foe is doing.
Look at their start up lag, hit box duration lag and ending lag.
Guess what, there aren't many attack that take under 21 frames to do completely. That and they have to east start up lag again to punish you.


#2 OMG, I can't believe no one use's DACUS to combo.

u-tilt> DACUS
d-tilt> DACUS
F-Throw> DACUS
Fair> DACUS
Nair 1> DACUS
Nair 2> DACUS
Nair 3> DACUS
Bair> DACUS

Look at that... there you have kill set ups and ways to like 31% to people.


#3 Please listen to me when I say that you need to Chain a LOT at high percents.
Constantly out space and use it.

The reason why is that the attack to knock you out of Chain are so limited it isn't even funny.
The attacks that do knock you out usually have small knock back.
Thus you are limiting their KO options to none (on most MU's).
You might survive and do more damage this way.


#4 Don't underestimate situational combo's.
If Sheik has something you need to learn it.
You might only use it 12 times a year, but that is 12 times that it worked.

For example the reverse chain ground lock.
That is practically a 0 - death if done correctly.


#5 Reduce your hurt box.
For example, Uair straightens you out vertically.
Bair straightens you out horizontally.
Needle Cancel curls you into a ball and brings your legs up (my personal favorite).

I am starting to use this a lot in my game:
SH> Needle Cancel (to avoid any attack from below)> Bair/Fair/Nair

I have used it to avoid Snakes f-tilt, it is really legit.


#6 Use Vanish, but don't over do it.
Vanish can be used like Chain, but if you dash and jump cancel Vanish you get a nice boost on the ground.
It can be used to punish their approaches and lag.
Make sure that they have lag while you are vulnerable.
After that if they try anything they just have to eat their lag and get hurt.

Remember to appear at RNDM places.




Well, those are some things that I am trying to do.
Thought some of you might be interested in reading it.

 

[choknater]

i practiced sheik vs ic's and the matchup is pretty fun

i'm learning how to not get grabbed and it's pretty ****

ic's are very sluggish on the offense compared to the likes of peach or mk

 

[Technologikall]

Where is the Sheik is female topic?

Not that it matters cause Sheik is obviously male but I noticed it's gone.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Where is the Sheik is female topic?

Not that it matters cause Sheik is obviously male but I noticed it's gone.

Probably removed because no one cares about that topic and if anyone does they will have a small army of annoyed people getting mad at them for making such a topic.

That said, someone should troll one of these times just to annoy everyone.
When I say troll I mean an expert troll thread. Other wise it wont be very funny.