A simple solution to Planking & Air Camping

[xDD-Master]

The most simple answer to Planking / Air Camping is:

Food on very low !!!

Why ?

Food appears on the ground.

Planking is at the edge where no items appear.

Air Camping is in the air where no items appear.

If someone only wants the %-lead and begins to plank / air camp, he will lose this lead after time because his oppenant begins to heal himself.

A little Downside: It doesnt help vs. Stock-Lead. BUT a stock-lead is harder to get than a %-lead (In theory we could play 1 Stock matches and Bo9 instead of Bo3 but thats just stupid).
Another bad thing is, if someone has the Stock lead with 100%, he could only run away until he 0% again (But it needs 3-4 minutes to heal 100% and it doesnt work vs. Falco and maybe some others characters who can spam you bad).

But Items appear randomly

And so is tripping + Luigis Side-B / Peachs Down-B and FSmash / DDDs Side-B / Olimars Pikmin (nearly the whole character) / Gaws Side-B / Even Diddys Barrels from his Up-B when beeing hit / Snakes Mortar have an random angle (I already got stage spikes by them, lucky for me that they landed in front of and not behind me ) + A lot of stages which arent banned includes random things, that includes two neutrals: SV balloon (not a big deal) & Yoshis Island ghost platforms on the side.

Funny thing about Food on low is, that on SV the balloon brings food to the stage & on YI the Shy-Guys do. Thats pretty cool

But food on low doesnt help vs. Chaingrabs / Infinites

I could think of switching other items on, but they would be just too over-centralizing in the matches. Food doesnt, I already tested it vs. some friends and they really appear too rarely to be over centralizing. We were able to play as usual. I tried to focus on healing myself but it didnt worked that well, because only every ~15 seconds a food appeared. I did an Test: In 8 minutes I could heal ~250% on SV vs. an oppenant who does nothing, that means ~125% for each character in a round if they can get every food on the stage, how broken is this ?

~Discuss

 

[Kitamerby]

Better idea: If time runs out, MK loses.


Watch the brawl ratings soar as MK suddenly becomes cool again.


Anyways, Food on low does seem interesting, except for the fact that you could be dthrown by snake and accidentally eat the food instead of get up attack, or food might randomly eat your animation that you wanted to do but didn't notice the food, but I guess both would be the player's fault. It would be nicer if the spawn rate could be reduced even further, then I'd totally be up with this idea. Someone recommended this some time earlier, but without this data. With this data, I'm actually curious about the outcome. It really does seem like it could be an interesting twist. We'd have to experiment with it a bit more first though.


I must say though, I'd certainly like to try this idea out.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I thought this was going to be stupid...but this is actually a good idea. It really shouldn't change anything...other than give a little help to whoever is being planked

 

[DMG]

The only bad thing about the MK losing if time runs out rule is that people could take advantage of that and try to time MK out on purpose. I know I certainly would run for 3 minutes and not lose a stock from MK if I knew I was gonna win because of a rule like that.

 

[Dekar173]

@DMG- that's why it's not a better idea than OP's ;D

I like it, AND it would sort of cater to the items crowd. ISP really is too good, then again I'm a Diddy main and love item-play haha

 

[Kitamerby]

The only bad thing about the MK losing if time runs out rule is that people could take advantage of that and try to time MK out on purpose. I know I certainly would run for 3 minutes and not lose a stock from MK if I knew I was gonna win because of a rule like that.

MK is pretty much the only character in Brawl who can pull off a steady and reliable offense.



I say let him run.

 

[Mota]

No joke, this is simply amazing.

Food flying around and being brought to you by shy guys is just to good.

 

[Jonas]

Not a bad idea. Food (on very low at that) don't have the same impact on the gameplay as other items. I can easily see how this would help against planking =D

 

[xDD-Master]

I must say though, I'd certainly like to try this idea out.

Do it and you will see that you can fight just as normal as you would with items set to none.

Try to take advantage by focusing on the items and you will see that this is harder than you may think.

 

[Red Arremer]

Why would someone want to oppose aircamping, one of Wario's more effective strategies? That would make Wario far worse, unless he nabs the food himself.

 

[DanGR]

This addition would arbitrarily nerf a tactic that hasn't even proven to be a problem.

No.

Then again, I don't understand why we turned off all items in the first place. *shrugs*

 

[Flayl]

This addition would arbitrarily nerf a tactic that hasn't even proven to be a problem.

No.

Then again, I don't understand why we turned off all items in the first place. *shrugs*

Because selectively banning items is far more complicated than simply turning them off.

 

[phi1ny3]

Doesn't this also make "Goon farming" work though?

 

[DanGR]

Because selectively banning items is far more complicated than simply turning them off.

Selectively banning MKs tactics is far more complicated than going ahead and banning him altogether; therefore, we should ban MK. Would you agree with that argument?

 

[CaliburChamp]

To avoid planking... allow non edge hogging stages in play. This can be custom stages, that are fair. This is why I hate starter stages for first round, cause lots of characters can plank there...

 

[DanGR]

Is it so hard to understand that planking/air camping isn't even a problem yet?

Let it play out.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, I've really wanted to dissect the matter down to frames that each character can/can't take advantage of in stopping planking.

 

[Flayl]

Selectively banning MKs tactics is far more complicated than going ahead and banning him altogether; therefore, we should ban MK. Would you agree with that argument?

Planking isn't an MK only tactic... Either way what I told you was the truth, I'm not trying to make a point.

 

[Red Arremer]

Selectively banning MKs tactics is far more complicated than going ahead and banning him altogether; therefore, we should ban MK. Would you agree with that argument?

Game & Watch is an excellent Planker, I'd even say he's close to Meta Knight, maybe even better. Though he doesn't just run the timer out, he actually uses Ledgecamping as set-up for combos.

To avoid planking... allow non edge hogging stages in play. This can be custom stages, that are fair. This is why I hate starter stages for first round, cause lots of characters can plank there...

Yea, let's play only on stages without ledges.

 

[Nic64]

Game and Watch can't work around a reasonable edge grab limit as MK can though...there's no effective way to stop MK from planking except by judge decision, while anyone else can be stopped with a very simple, much easier to enforce rule.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Just put the time off.

If there's no time there's no reason to plank/stall.

 

[TLMSheikant]

but without time, itd take an eternity to end tournies...fail. I wouldnt mind food on very low .

 

[demonictoonlink]

Shiekant approves, so I approve.
That's not actually why at all. I feel like this would change things just a little, but it would be only for the better.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

So how about that idea, guys.

I'd like to see a tournament run with food on very low. If there are good results, then this should spread.

 

[Mr.-0]

To avoid planking... allow non edge hogging stages in play. This can be custom stages, that are fair. This is why I hate starter stages for first round, cause lots of characters can plank there...

LMFAO!!!! Dude, you can't play effectively on stages without ledges. Plus, no tournament would allow coustom stages.

 

[phi1ny3]

Plus it'd **** tether chars.
Also, Goon farming anyone? Doesn't it allow D3 to pull out dragoon pieces and capsules when items are on?

 

[Sinz]

No, it only allows D3 to pull items that are set to on.

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh, never mind.

 

[Rajam]

I liked a lot the idea that if the timer runs out, MK loses. Just think about it, is the right way to make MK a little less broken than he is, because he wouldn't be able to play highly deffensive, and planking wouldn't make sense. People would play against MK like against IC, forcing MK go all offensive. In fact, with such a rule you don't even have to approach MK... I don't know, but i found this idea great

MK dittos? If the timer runs out, the MK with more stocks and/or more % loses. I'm not sure if this works the right way though, somehow it could be abused badly

 

[Doomblaze]

If items are set to 'off' but every item is selected, then D3 can pull out teh imba that is a one hit KO, if only food is on then he cant pull out dragoons and final smashes and stuff.
But can he still pull out food? I dont think so but i dont know.

this is not a bad idea, we should impement this in a few tourneys and see how it goes.

Having metaknight lose if the timer runs out is a stupid idea, having a judge watch the match makes more sense
another thing we could do it to have the metaknights who are known to plank play on wiis with infinite replay and watch the match afterwards
The problem with this is that most wiis dont have infinite replay on them, but that way we can see for sure if one is planking.

 

[solecalibur]

To avoid planking... allow non edge hogging stages in play. This can be custom stages, that are fair. This is why I hate starter stages for first round, cause lots of characters can plank there...

Yea, let's play only on stages without ledges.

*Supporting what he says*
Tether characters would be boned and characters with poor recovery as well

OS is looking at adding custom stages that prevent infinates but I dont think it will be that great of a success

 

[TreK]

Diddy's popgun creates food if fired with items on. He'd be 35 times better vs campers, and he's already good vs them.

It's not really needed where I live (we don't really plank at all atm at least) but it sounds kinda okay... If planking was a problem I'd make the sudden death playable ; no one wants a random outcome so most likely they'll stop it... Then again, planking after taking the opponent's first stock would still be problematic. I guess calling out a judge would STILL be the best solution. Or the japanese ledge rule thingy.

I'm bored.

 

[Red Arremer]

I liked a lot the idea that if the timer runs out, MK loses. Just think about it, is the right way to make MK a little less broken than he is, because he wouldn't be able to play highly deffensive, and planking wouldn't make sense. People would play against MK like against IC, forcing MK go all offensive. In fact, with such a rule you don't even have to approach MK... I don't know, but i found this idea great

MK dittos? If the timer runs out, the MK with more stocks and/or more % loses. I'm not sure if this works the right way though, somehow it could be abused badly

Then you will have everyone who plays against Meta Knight try to run out the timer, because no matter what their damage or stock level is, they still win.
Also, who wins if there's 2 Meta Knights?

 

[DanGR]

Game & Watch is an excellent Planker, I'd even say he's close to Meta Knight, maybe even better. Though he doesn't just run the timer out, he actually uses Ledgecamping as set-up for combos.

Meta Knight is by far the best at planking/stalling at the ledge. In fact, I'd say he's unstoppable at the ledge and below the stage. I was testing out how well and for how long he could stall below the stage by following a 60 ledge grab limit, and found out you could last under there for about 6-7 full seconds at a time before you grab the ledge again, depending on the stage of course.

For example, on battlefield, you can do the following steps to stall for a total of about 6 to 6-1/2 seconds:
1.) Glide directly from the ledge under the stage about 4/5 of the way to the other side, going up and down to increase said distance.
2.) Then slowly use your jumps, jumping directly below the stage until you're left with no more jumps.
3.) Fall a little bit.
4.) Then drill rush to either ledge, depending on which side your opponent wasn't on.

If you add in the time it takes for an opponent with average speed to get from the middle of the stage to the ledge + the invincibility frames you get upon grabbing the ledge, that's about 7 seconds of untouchable stall time, and perhaps even more if your opponent is slower than average or they're farther from the middle of the stage when you drill rush to a ledge.

If you multiply 60 (the average/usual ledge grab count limit) x7, that's 7 full minutes of planking/stalling time that MK can take off the clock without going over the limit (assuming he hasn't grabbed the ledge yet). By some tournament rules that's the entire match. His ability to stall beneath the stage is, alone, better than the stalling/planking that any character in brawl could ever wish for, and it's not even very difficult.

 

[Dekar173]

Then you will have everyone who plays against Meta Knight try to run out the timer, because no matter what their damage or stock level is, they still win.
Also, who wins if there's 2 Meta Knights?

Despite contrary belief, MK dittos are extremely skill intensive. So the better MK will win :O But when you add planking (which as has been mentioned, is banned most everywhere) who knows? The first person to get a % lead?

 

['V']

I honestly think that people should run more ISP tourneys.

 

[Red Arremer]

blablabla

I saw a video of a G&W get a KO and then start planking with NAirs, "messed up" on purpose, then UpB'ing to knock his opponent upwards and NAired at the top so he'd fall faster, then he juggled that guy with UAirs in order to refresh his moves.
G&W's ledgestalling is better than MK's as far as "actually winning games" goes.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

but without time, itd take an eternity to end tournies...fail. I wouldnt mind food on very low .

Then you better plan more time for brawl.

What do you rather have, a long tournament without stalling and gay **** or a sausage-fest to take 30 minutes less?

 

[shadowdsfire]

Sound like a good idea actually... But...

Maybe sometime wou will want to do A but you will eat food instead of attacking
D3 will make appear some item we don't want to, even if you have all item set to NO... ( When it's at low)
Snake will spam his amazing "Mm, Tasty!"
I'm hungry

 

[Praxis]

I saw a video of a G&W get a KO and then start planking with NAirs, "messed up" on purpose, then UpB'ing to knock his opponent upwards and NAired at the top so he'd fall faster, then he juggled that guy with UAirs in order to refresh his moves.
G&W's ledgestalling is better than MK's as far as "actually winning games" goes.

G&W cannot stall out his edgegrabs. He has, at most, one second jump and up-B. Any attempt to stall gives you an opportunity to punish him (edgehogging the up-B gives most of the cast a free hit as he has a brief lag at the apex), so he has to jump nair regrab immediately.

Thus, a 50 edgegrab limit immediately gimps G&W's planking. But MK can still get around it, and since MK's planking cannot be regulated well, he's thus the only character that causes a problem.

(Also, G&W has no reliable approach method. He sucks and shouldn't have the lead anyway. )