slikvik
Smash Master
i will
10 chars
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
9/22 C3 Results
- Thread starter aho43
- Start date
10 chars
Scissors Sir
Smash Ace
Just to be clear: I totally get what you all are saying. I just think it's not worth *****ing about because it doesn't change anything. These pros are, essentially, bored. You want to liven up the tourneys? Get better and shake things up a bit.
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
Actually, dissent tends to be a pretty effective way of accomplishing something, so I would disagree with you on that.
About the latter, I'm working on it.
lol, tru dat. Look what's happened just here. I just felt like playing the foil I guess.
aho43
Smash Lord
as one of the tourney organizers for the next event, i wouldnt force what characters a person has to play, but i can withold their prizes til they play it out. and if playing it out ends up being them all suiciding as fast as they can, as greg described, that sucks, but that won't be on me.
i agree with you yeroc that everyone should get better so there are different faces in the top 3.
i agree with you yeroc that everyone should get better so there are different faces in the top 3.
MyNiggaNameDante
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2004
- Messages
- 342
gg to the person who stole half my 12 pack that was really cool
-Kazman-
Smash Journeyman
Listen to this negro.
A few months ago I learned a curious fact. In the early early days of competitive golf, the top half dozen players would actually pool all their winnings together and split it at the end of each year, equally, no matter who won what or how much where. Just food for thought.
As for not playing out finals: They should play it out, even if they do decide to split money prior.
As for not playing out finals: They should play it out, even if they do decide to split money prior.
Voodoo Daddy
Smash Journeyman
Yeah man... it's <3. I guess you don't know me very well but I'm just a goofy guy. Like I told you before, you've got easily the sexiest pikachu I've ever seen. And what happen was I just saw "Vooodoo 3rd" and thought I made it out, since technically we tied for third. But you won the tie breaker. So I was just confused.
Man, what was up with that down b... from no where.
EDIT: Yeah after rereading I meant it like "stupid three stock and your **** music" kinda' way not like "oh that three stock was stupid."
Nothing but love though.
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
next time just play your last match too, don't forfeit. I knew i was going to lose most of my matches but i still played em, it's good practice and it's fun, even if you get ***** ^_^ Keep working on that marth and doc man.HOY! This was amazing, for me. This being one of my first major tourneys, I got to see just how much I still have to learn. I love watching more than I play . . . lol I shouldn't do that. There's no shoutouts to specific people, but DAYUM you all are impressive as hell. I WILL see you all again, and I will make it a goal for everyone to know who I am.
BTW, GO NC!
and voodoo's posting again yay
Fonz
Smash Ace
As someone who doesn't run tournaments, I'm obviously in no position, but when there was a question about throwing late tourney matches at an mlg they threatened action/lack of payout if it happened again. If you run a tourney you can do the same to ensure proper finals. Should you? I dunno, but it certainly is an option. If you're awarding hundreds of dollars of prize money and make it clear before hand I don't think it's too much to ask. It may be a bit of a gray area, but it's usually pretty **** easy to tell if the character they picked they believe has a respectable shot.
Good Idea Kirbster!....BTW your "hold down on peach" Works WONDERS! lolz but I cant help but wonder...why split it when you can be an ******* and go for it all? If I ever get the ability to win tourneys like this the only people I'd split $$ with is my Crew members that attended....
mathos
Smash Champion
Well I think a big deal is that the finalists basically are taking our money and we're not getting what we paid for. Go hard or go home.
What you paid for? You paid to play in the tourney. The communal nature of the tournament scene implies a bit of exhibitionism from those skilled enough to supply it, but it's in no way obligational. A technicality, yes, and I see where you're coming from and agree it'd be nice if they did that. But don't try to tell them they have to because they don't, really.
Fonz, if I were a pro in that situation (well first off at this stage if I were pro I too would be playing for keeps, but that's not quite the issue here) and they threatened that, depending on the fine print I'd be filing a suit for renegging on their agreement.
Fonz, if I were a pro in that situation (well first off at this stage if I were pro I too would be playing for keeps, but that's not quite the issue here) and they threatened that, depending on the fine print I'd be filing a suit for renegging on their agreement.
mathos
Smash Champion
Yes but a tournament is a way to classify the skill rankings of those who entered. By splitting the pot or not playing finals you are not gettting a true result. People don't just to enter, people pay for the entertainment value from participating.
Wuss
Smash Champion
I think finalists should play out their games, and at least make it look like they are trying, cause I personally, and probably others do as well, love watching finals of a tournament. it just a decent thing to do for the pros to play out there matches so others can watch. Obviously, there is no way we can physically forcing them to, but if a tournament organizer decides to withould prizes, then hopefully that will give them some incentive.
hova
Smash Champion
agrees with plank
the only way to guarantee finals being played out seriously is to make it there yourself.
i remember the very first CCX when me and jon split 1/2 and then bull ****ted thru the finals
i also remember forfeiting to chinesahh during a bmore fest in loser's finals because i knew i couldn't beat him and just wanted to get out of there soon as possible
i know i wouldn't forfeit or split in every situation, but sometimes you really don't care and would rather just go home at 11pm after playing smash all day.
watching two really good players going all out is definitely entertaining, but i'm not gonna complain if they decide not to play
but whoever said that checks should be written out definitely had the best idea, it would be a hassle to split a pot when you actually have to go to the bank and cash something. but that also wouldn't stop players forfeiting to others they know they can't beat if they really just want to save some time
the only way to guarantee finals being played out seriously is to make it there yourself.
i remember the very first CCX when me and jon split 1/2 and then bull ****ted thru the finals
i also remember forfeiting to chinesahh during a bmore fest in loser's finals because i knew i couldn't beat him and just wanted to get out of there soon as possible
i know i wouldn't forfeit or split in every situation, but sometimes you really don't care and would rather just go home at 11pm after playing smash all day.
watching two really good players going all out is definitely entertaining, but i'm not gonna complain if they decide not to play
but whoever said that checks should be written out definitely had the best idea, it would be a hassle to split a pot when you actually have to go to the bank and cash something. but that also wouldn't stop players forfeiting to others they know they can't beat if they really just want to save some time
HAT
Smash Ace
Yeah, I don't really care that C3 finals were carried out, but if the majority of players that have paid money to compete want to see them, then certainly it should happen.
Especially since everyone but M2K, Azen, Chillin, and Jiano knew they were entering the tournament without a chance to win money.
'Cept for Chu. Man, you suck now, don't you?
Anyway, it's not likely this **** will ever happen again, now that at least a fourth of the tournament players have *****ed about it, so let's stop whining.
Shoutouts- PhillyBilly: you weren't supposed to find out that my bane right now is Marth. I'll exact my revenge, don't you worry.
Voodoo- Good ****, sir. I look forward to seeing you come to more tournaments. I'm rooting for you, become the best Doc in the world. =]
Chred2..etc- Really enjoyed our matches. You're a far more realistic and less ridiculous person .. in person, and that's pretty cool. I hope to see you at my C'ville smashfests.
Chinesah + Aho- Ouch. Next time it'll be closer, I promise.
Everyone in my pool I didn't play- Sorry, I'm a pissy, whiney woman. I'm working on it, so don't expect it to happen again. I'm having my replacement surgery in a few months.
Nice tournament guys, it's good to see that even if it's not a large-scale tournament, OOSers can come and ****.
Did I forget anybody?
Especially since everyone but M2K, Azen, Chillin, and Jiano knew they were entering the tournament without a chance to win money.
'Cept for Chu. Man, you suck now, don't you?
Anyway, it's not likely this **** will ever happen again, now that at least a fourth of the tournament players have *****ed about it, so let's stop whining.
Shoutouts- PhillyBilly: you weren't supposed to find out that my bane right now is Marth. I'll exact my revenge, don't you worry.
Voodoo- Good ****, sir. I look forward to seeing you come to more tournaments. I'm rooting for you, become the best Doc in the world. =]
Chred2..etc- Really enjoyed our matches. You're a far more realistic and less ridiculous person .. in person, and that's pretty cool. I hope to see you at my C'ville smashfests.
Chinesah + Aho- Ouch. Next time it'll be closer, I promise.
Everyone in my pool I didn't play- Sorry, I'm a pissy, whiney woman. I'm working on it, so don't expect it to happen again. I'm having my replacement surgery in a few months.
Nice tournament guys, it's good to see that even if it's not a large-scale tournament, OOSers can come and ****.
Did I forget anybody?
Fonz
Smash Ace
I don't think they threatened not to pay out, they threatened not to pay out if they did it again. After that rule has been stated, I think they're well within their rights and you're welcome to throw your money away on frivolous legal fees at that point.
I'm also not against splitting, just against not playing matches at all.
quoted for saying everything that's been said up to now first.
Anyway, the only realistic resolution are the two stated above because people who split don't have a choice in those matters. However, if they're good enough to be a finalist, they get to choice to do whatever they want; they're not obligated to anyone's entertainment, and THEY didn't pay $28 to entertainother people.. You want entertainment? Go watch Superbad.
It is not a right to watch hardcore well-played final matches. You don't deserve it, and no one owes it to you. Players essentially pay $28 to compete; not to spectate and see "incredible matches" at the same time.
Aho, was that your tape/vcr you asked me to hit stop on? Just wanna' know who has recorded matches.
linkmastersword
Smash Lord
I definately go for entertainment. Video games are in existence SOLEY for entertainment.
I personally have gone to c3 before and paid the venue fee just to watch the best of the best have at it. (azen v g-reg matches are priceless)
so maybe for some people the tourny experience is "enter to win" but for the majority, its pay to have fun and watch some serious rapage
I personally have gone to c3 before and paid the venue fee just to watch the best of the best have at it. (azen v g-reg matches are priceless)
so maybe for some people the tourny experience is "enter to win" but for the majority, its pay to have fun and watch some serious rapage
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
Yeah, most of us go knowing we won't win. We pay the money to a) get matches against good people
and b) watch good players play each other.
edit@hat: hellz yeah, i'll be at UMBC this sat, let's get in some matches. i'll be checking for the next catonsville thread, and aero will be sure to tell me if i miss it!
and b) watch good players play each other.
edit@hat: hellz yeah, i'll be at UMBC this sat, let's get in some matches. i'll be checking for the next catonsville thread, and aero will be sure to tell me if i miss it!
Kel
Smash Master
Hey I've got an idea, next tournament, let's just take all of our entrance money and split it up to evenly distribute amongst all the entrants?
Oh wait...that's a smashfest.
Oh wait...that's a smashfest.
Bass.
Smash Journeyman
Lol, that was good.
Renegade
Smash Journeyman
Thank you goes out to the majority of smashers who agree with my opinion on this issue.
I think making out checks to placers (at least top 3 placers... or over 100$) and enacting penalties on people who obviously are throwing matches in the finals.
To omni, plank, and yeroc... no matter how you shake things, many smashers (over 50%) come to these tourneys to watch the best play each other. And they are not getting that when top players chop the pot and don't play it out.
I'll say it time and time again...
IT IS NOT THE ELITE THAT TRULY MAKE THE SCENE THRIVE, BUT THE MANY, MANY MID AND LOW LEVEL SMASHERS WHO PAY HARD EARNED MONEY FOR LOVE OF THE GAME.
When Elite players continually screw them over, as they may be doing by denying a decent spectating event, or charging bogus "training fees" or taking advantage of them in other ways, it poisons the heart of the community. They may just stop coming, after all, they have no shot at winning and it doesn't make financial sense. And when that happens, everyone loses.
There have been some great ideas thrown around to prevent this issue. I applaud all who have contributed. Of course you can't really control what someone does with their money after a tourney, but you can do several things to alleviate the issue.
1. If a company is availible, issue checks for prizes over 100$ US Dollars.
2. State clearly in tourney rules that all matches must be played to a good competitive standard to be eligible for prizes. (i.e. GW or Pichu mirrors, or mass suicide is grounds for disqualification). Judgement for "competitive" standard could come from the tournament director, and if he needs the backup, with agreement from enough other smashers (chosen at random).
3. If the practice becomes habitual, low seedings or outright bans may be considered.
That should be enough.
Elite smashers aren't stupid, they aren't going to kill their golden goose if tourney organizers put it out there that refusal to play out matches will not be tolerated.
This happened in the Street Fighter scene many years ago. It still happens at smaller tourneys from time to time, but at majors, there are specific rules against it. At Evo 2007, Mike Yipes and Justin Wong played out the finals, even though there are from the same city.
I don't want to make a super huge stink about this.
I respect the top 3 C3 placers as people, and their talent in SSBM is amazing.
I would just like this practice to be nipped in the bud.
Thanks for your time and consideration!
Robin
I think making out checks to placers (at least top 3 placers... or over 100$) and enacting penalties on people who obviously are throwing matches in the finals.
To omni, plank, and yeroc... no matter how you shake things, many smashers (over 50%) come to these tourneys to watch the best play each other. And they are not getting that when top players chop the pot and don't play it out.
I'll say it time and time again...
IT IS NOT THE ELITE THAT TRULY MAKE THE SCENE THRIVE, BUT THE MANY, MANY MID AND LOW LEVEL SMASHERS WHO PAY HARD EARNED MONEY FOR LOVE OF THE GAME.
When Elite players continually screw them over, as they may be doing by denying a decent spectating event, or charging bogus "training fees" or taking advantage of them in other ways, it poisons the heart of the community. They may just stop coming, after all, they have no shot at winning and it doesn't make financial sense. And when that happens, everyone loses.
There have been some great ideas thrown around to prevent this issue. I applaud all who have contributed. Of course you can't really control what someone does with their money after a tourney, but you can do several things to alleviate the issue.
1. If a company is availible, issue checks for prizes over 100$ US Dollars.
2. State clearly in tourney rules that all matches must be played to a good competitive standard to be eligible for prizes. (i.e. GW or Pichu mirrors, or mass suicide is grounds for disqualification). Judgement for "competitive" standard could come from the tournament director, and if he needs the backup, with agreement from enough other smashers (chosen at random).
3. If the practice becomes habitual, low seedings or outright bans may be considered.
That should be enough.
Elite smashers aren't stupid, they aren't going to kill their golden goose if tourney organizers put it out there that refusal to play out matches will not be tolerated.
This happened in the Street Fighter scene many years ago. It still happens at smaller tourneys from time to time, but at majors, there are specific rules against it. At Evo 2007, Mike Yipes and Justin Wong played out the finals, even though there are from the same city.
I don't want to make a super huge stink about this.
I respect the top 3 C3 placers as people, and their talent in SSBM is amazing.
I would just like this practice to be nipped in the bud.
Thanks for your time and consideration!
Robin
So just because you're the majority that makes your opinion correct? Before the 13th century the entire English speaking world believed the earth was flat. We all know how that turned out.
Just because that's why people showed up doesn't mean that that's what they paid for. That's why it's called an entry fee.
You know, if watching pros play is what people want why don't we start hosting exhibitions instead of tourneys? We just select the people we want to see play and have them all meet up and we pay them to play smash for the rest of us to watch and cheer on. Pros get paid, you get your matches, everybody wins, right?
Just because that's why people showed up doesn't mean that that's what they paid for. That's why it's called an entry fee.
You know, if watching pros play is what people want why don't we start hosting exhibitions instead of tourneys? We just select the people we want to see play and have them all meet up and we pay them to play smash for the rest of us to watch and cheer on. Pros get paid, you get your matches, everybody wins, right?
Just for future reference, it's sometimes difficult to say what is and isn't competitive with players like Chu and Azen. Chu has used Pichu in tournaments competitively and wins. The last time we played in tournament, he used Young Link against my Ganondorf, and the match was very close. He knew he was risking his placing by not using his best character, but that's his way of competiting. It may not always be fun to "use your best character" to win a tournament. My point is Chu's Pichu and Azen's whatever character in terms of competition are high on the ladder and beat most novice and even some expert players.
I understand where you're coming from; I really do, but it's not fair to take away from how a person wants to compete and/or represent themselves if they're paying the $28 to enter the tournament just like everyone else. They have no obligations to anyone but themselves. No one has any right to judge anyone on how a person handles their position as a finalist because the truth is many of the people who are complaining would probably do the same thing if they were in the same position. After 5-6 years of Smash and doing countless epic "final matches", they're not so epic anymore to them. They play, they have fun, they make money. That's their right as a competitor. Their only responsibility is to play their match. How they play is entirely up to them and it should always be that way.
-Kazman-
Smash Journeyman
u guys type too much
slikvik
Smash Master
lol @ the smash community. Our best players don’t even compete…*starts playing tekken seriously again*
Wel We can go on and on but that Fact of the Matter is....Like it or not...It IS their right to play how they want to......(But If I ruled the world....)
And what Aho said goes...so I think this whole discussion technically ended with that....He and Plank run this...they have spoken....no questions asked, no reverse decisions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think that this isnt the place for it....(Geez did I Just say stay on topic? APOCALYPSE)
*PWNS slik in Tekken so Slik plays w/ the street fighter guys*(NO PEACH IN TEKKEN SLIK WHATCHA GONNA DO BROTHER?)
And what Aho said goes...so I think this whole discussion technically ended with that....He and Plank run this...they have spoken....no questions asked, no reverse decisions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think that this isnt the place for it....(Geez did I Just say stay on topic? APOCALYPSE)
*PWNS slik in Tekken so Slik plays w/ the street fighter guys*(NO PEACH IN TEKKEN SLIK WHATCHA GONNA DO BROTHER?)
Fonz
Smash Ace
This is clearly what everyone is asking for, issue resolved =)
slikvik
Smash Master
i main ling xiayou. smash she has evasive techniques similar to peach so its an easy adjustment. i would play tekken more, but their competitive scene is way smaller than smash
Velocity
Smash Lord
agreed Heihachi=doc i used to play that much smaller scene
Drephen
Smash Master
reguardless if the finalist use or how hard they try, the finals should be played out. Don't care if they just suicide 4 times real quick, its a tourney bracket so technically the matches should be played out, if not then no one wins.
Kazuya = Cheaper Falco...Lookit the hair...and technical skill...Ive beaten top xiayous round these parts slik....there is only ONE move that PWNS me with xiayou and I doubt you'll find it....Hey How about this....when you get back in town Ill visit and play you in tekken 5(or 6) and we will see once and for all.
BTW its not an easy adjustment....Xiayou Lacks the Down Smash+Stitch face Turnips
slikvik
Smash Master
^^^typical cocky noob