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I disagree with the Marcina winning part. I think it's even. Falcon combos just as hard and his mobility (especially burst mobility) allow him to whiff punish just about anything. Falcon shouldn't get walled out too hard because he doesn't have to approach the wall, he can wait for the end lag of all of Marcina's moves and punish that.
Tbh, if he wants to have the explosive comeback factor I really think he should just use Marth. Lucina suits him well as a secondary/co-main that supplements his Diddy Kong because he can just rely on his fundamentals but I feel like if he goes full Lucina he's going to run into similar problems that he's feeling with Diddy. I feel like he's still going to find some troubles killing, something I noticed when he was fighting ANTi at Greninja Saga. I feel like if he took some time to dedicate himself to Marth for a little bit and adjust to that he'd be able to do rather well.
His troubles with killing currently mostly stem from the fact that he just uses no real kill setups at all and almost acts like Bair and FSmash are the only kill moves Lucina has. He only uses Up Air for killing on doubles for some reason, he never lands DB at KO%, he doesn't Up Tilt aerial unsafe jump-ins when the opponent is at kill percent, he doesn't kill with Nair all that often, stuff like that.
Hey, Zelda main here, and I find a lot of the points being brought up fascinating. I'll toss in my two cents.
It's not unhappiness with his placing, moreso unhappiness with the character, as well as the two beatings he did take. His lucina is decent though. I wouldn't say on the level of other Lucinas, but still decent.
I see what you did there, and thoroughly like it.
He already said that he is not playing
because he values 's consistency more, if he is looking for more of that, would suit his need more.
Zelda's air speed is 1.04, fall speed is 1.35. Her Nayru's stalls and has frame 5-15 intangibility. Her upB hits frame 8, can be angled 8 directions, slides up walls (unlike Brawl) and can kill Link in the middle of SV at 120% with only the 2nd hit, that's like a strong smash, and is a very far recovery. The point of upB is the threat stops you from sniping her; it's like a better Mac's ground sideB.
Its not even really about being killed by them. Thing is, you end up taking 30% when you get hit by any of her combo openers (side b, up b, uptilt, up throw, dtilt, witch time). Spectators watch Bayonetta combo other characters all over the stage and get underwhelmed when it doesn't end in death not noticing how much damage the combo dealt or how easy it was to start.
Truth. I'm currently going through every PersistentBlade set and compilating the best moments from each match; Im at Ignition #79 and I don't think I've yet seen him kill with Dancing Blade and he killed with upair about I think once.
But Bayo wasn't hyped for the damage she does, especially when Mario, Fox, Ryu, Falcon, Luigi, Sheik and probably like 10 more characters do the same thing and most of the ones named have a better neutral. Yeah sometimes Bayo does 50-60% but so does everyone I listed except maybe Sheik.
Earth may have used Pit more than Corrin, since where I saw the results (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBKKrJeXUAA8qIL.jpg:large) Pit was listed first, though since I don't think there was a stream it could just be the person posting didn't know he switched mains? He did use Pit more than Corrin at the recent pre evo japan event, but that was crews only (he, T and kuro got third).Toryumon Weekly tournament #4 (Japan) (48 Entrants)
1st: Takera
2nd: Kisha
3rd: Songn
4th: Earth
T's style with Link also makes him a bit inconsistent. T is very reaction and read based, and that works well for Link because he hits so hard. I think there are better LINKS, but I think T is the best Link PLAYER if that makes sense. So yes, I believe T could do better if he used advanced tech like bombslides, soft bomb tosses, and other neato tricks. Camping sometimes could be useful too, but he said in a Tweet that he's not patient.
Bayo might characteristically have more in common with ZSS but her actual combo game feels more comparable to Sheik. She has options to convert from almost any hit she can get in neutral and while not all of them lead to a kill, I hesitate to say that a character who is consistent in getting 30-40% off of a hit does not have good combos. On average I get the impression that ZSS and Bayonetta manage to pull off an equal amount of kill combos even if ZSS has an easier time doing them execution-wise, cause I can't even count on my hand how many times I've seen Boost Kick ladder combos survive through DI, even if they're almost off of the stage and at 70%.
Sometimes all you need is strong fundamentals, knowledge and execution to preform well. You'll likely do better long term when you add optimization and techs and such but a more basic play style can be effective if the character allows it. He reminds me of The Great Gonzales who plays a very basic Ness but still excels
, Komorikiri , Ranai , KEN , and Kameme have been funded for CEO 2017. has been unlocked for CEO 2017 (and maybe Nairo saga too?)
Raito is indeed able to attend Nairo Saga and CEO. With KEN getting to go to two huge tournaments it's gonna be great for judging a proper spot for him on PGR and other rankings.Eh, I've never found Bombslides that needed. They're helpful, sure, but I've never seen a reason to use a lot of Link's ATs.
Wednesday Night Fights Spring 2.4 (39 Entrants) (SoCal)
1st: Elegant
2nd: Dynamo
3rd: Scourgemom
4th: The Guest
Oh, and Abadango
EDIT: Raito
T is imo the best Link so no one is as good as him. T plays KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) and instead focuses on spacing. All the ATs in the world won't help if you can't space them right. Useing the right option for the right spacing is the key to playing Link well. A mistake a lot of Link players make is learning ATs but not fundamental spacing. This applies to projectiles too, people will be stuck on trying to camp to the point it actually compromises their spacing and they get punished.My
Link's walk is good and so are his pivots so if you rush carelessly you might eat a pivot Ftilt/smash. The disjointed sword helps him stay safe if he can maneuver in even small areas. His jab, although frame 7, pokes out farther than other jabs like Ike or Shulk's step jab 1s. Jab 2 can be canceled safely into a mixup on shields or things like upB on hit at high %s. Link also has the ever useful clawshot that out-ranges swordies like Ike and Marth as a mid range threat.
This is in addition to bomb/projectile stage control and combos.
tl;dr Link can play footsies.
That's pretty well what I was getting at. Gotta change things up a bit depending on the player, the MU, and how that player plays the MU
vs Agnis , aMac in third (note: Agnis has a win on ANTi.) vs Pink , TrueMain in third vs Firefly , GetShulked in third vs Neki , uwu chris in third vs Kantrip , Shoghi in third vs FoCus , Pandarain in third vs Ashley , Zak in third vs Espeon•CH , MOOBESOR in third vs Grade , SwagMaster69 in third vs Jams , Asa in third vs aMSa , Ikey in third vs Pleiades , Legit247 in third (Note: I'm in this pool) vs 2manycooks , Bishly in third vs Nurse , Frededish in third vs Alphicans , Mono in third vs Len , King in third
Shaya
for advice to explain why I was so much better with Lucina.ZeRo's spacing is already exceptional. If you watched his Twitch rant, he says he doesn't care for Marth because sometimes - not 50% of the time, maybe not even 30% of the time, you'll inevitably miss a tipper. And he hates that, because if he hits someone offstage at a certain percent with Lucina, they will die - period.I remember a long time ago when I wanted to pick up Marcina for tournament (my most used character by far at this point in time) I found that I was quite terrible at playing Marth and had to rely on Lucina to win. I went to the indomitable
His response was,
"Training wheels"
I found that to be very much true and as my spacing with the character got better over the 6-month period following that conversation I definitely ended up seeing more results with Marth.
If you can play Lucina, you can play Marth. There are a handful of important differences (b-air vs. f-tilt, and Lucina's f-smash baits), but the hitboxes are so similar you might as well take the time to get used to Marth.
ZeRo should try it. I'm not saying that Marth is better than Lucina because I don't want to go into that can of worms, but it's odd to say that you can play Lucina but can't play Marth. Like, what? Just put in the extra effort, you already make a living playing this game, it's actually not like you have better things to do. You might say that you value Lucina's consistency more, but what you're obviously looking for is a way to slap someone silly with early kills like Nairo does with up-bs or Fatality does with spikes. Marth fits perfectly for that.
If you want someone who:
-is consistently strong in neutral
-has the ability to seal stocks early
-is good at ledgetrapping and following up in advantage
it honestly sounds like you're describing Marth.
or just play Rosalina
I am beyond jealous that I don't get the chance to drown to Abadango in pools. Lucky Firefly, great Yoshi btw. I only shaved a game off Firefly once cause Luigi jab to up B.Battle of BC 2 pools are out. 246 Entrants, this event is not one to miss. Not all of them are in waves yet, I couldn't wait to talk about this because I'm excited.
Pool A1: MKLeo
Pool A2: ANTi
Pool 1: Abadango
Pool 2: Locus
Pool 3: VoiD
Pool 4: Falln
Pool 5: Konga
Pool 6: Mew2King
Pool 7: KOSSismoss
Pool 8: Big D
Pool 9: Captain L
Pool 10: Exodia
Pool 11: Strike
Pool 12: Locke
Pool 13: Pyreeze
Pool 14: MD
He dropped Little Mac quite a while ago. But its funny to see how he plays a character that can die off a simple mistake like his previous main albeit he can actually recover without fearing dying at any given moment.
Now it depends on what we are calling training wheels. I've never considered Lucina as training wheels Marth; Marth is training wheels Marth. If you want to practice playing a character in which spacing is paramount, then practice playing a character in which spacing is paramount. Now both characters REQUIRE spacing, but Marth emphasizes the difference in advantage vs disadvantage and how it applies to spacing.I remember a long time ago when I wanted to pick up Marcina for tournament (my most used character by far at this point in time) I found that I was quite terrible at playing Marth and had to rely on Lucina to win. I went to the indomitable
His response was,
"Training wheels"
I found that to be very much true and as my spacing with the character got better over the 6-month period following that conversation I definitely ended up seeing more results with Marth.
If you can play Lucina, you can play Marth. There are a handful of important differences (b-air vs. f-tilt, and Lucina's f-smash baits), but the hitboxes are so similar you might as well take the time to get used to Marth.
ZeRo should try it. I'm not saying that Marth is better than Lucina because I don't want to go into that can of worms, but it's odd to say that you can play Lucina but can't play Marth. Like, what? Just put in the extra effort, you already make a living playing this game, it's actually not like you have better things to do. You might say that you value Lucina's consistency more, but what you're obviously looking for is a way to slap someone silly with early kills like Nairo does with up-bs or Fatality does with spikes. Marth fits perfectly for that.
If you want someone who:
-is consistently strong in neutral
-has the ability to seal stocks early
-is good at ledgetrapping and following up in advantage
it honestly sounds like you're describing Marth.
or just play Rosalina
I'm not telling him to play Marth instead because Marth is better.
I can't even....
I don't think we can really just know what he wants like that, especially when
This is exactly what he has made a big point in the past saying that he doesn't want. I think on the same stream he blew up, said that he doesn't care for an FSmash that kills at 40 this match and at180 the next one. Considering how determined he was when he said that, I really don't think a character like Marth is what he wants. So, no, I don't think it's what he seems to be looking for, here.
What ZeRo wants is to win, ultimately. What he claims to want is a totally different matter, but it's evident when you look at the source of his losses that his biggest problem with his character (Diddy) is killing so late. Sometimes he needs to just be able to kill early to maintain mental fortitude. That's my interpretation, anyway.
It's not that he compared two different characters. That's totally fine. It's the characters that he compared that's the problem.
The point i was trying to make is just because both characters have similar movesets doesn't mean you should use Ganondorf as training wheels.
*I edited my post to make grammer clearer*
Fair enough. I can agree with a few things, like how playing some Marth can hone you're appreciation for spacing, which is vital to every character, but I don't think I would take it as far as you do. Fair enough; looks like there is some understanding
