Illuminose
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2015
- Messages
- 671
all i really learned about mario this weekend was that if you outplay your opponent and find the correct punishes, the sword matchups (cloud and marcina) are doable, which is not anything new. no one ever said they were 65-35 or something in those character's favor. however, i think it would be unwise to discount virtually all existing matchup theory (supported by results for an extended period of time) because of one tournament. that's just jumping to conclusions too quickly. i'd like to remind people that leo has won virtually every set of mario vs marth that he's played since he first beat ally at canada cup last year. that this is the first time komo has lost to either ally or anti in the mario matchup. that top marios have struggled with numerous cloud players, including tweek, javi, komo, ned, and mr.r. while ally specifically has been able to win numerous sets against cloud players, he has still tended to struggle with the top echelon of clouds.
regarding
the king of murder
in particular, walling out mario as cloud is not risky, and you have numerous effective tools for doing so, including bair, fair, nair, dair, and cross slash. it is in fact quite difficult to get in for mario, and this idea of 'offense vs defense' balancing out implies that cloud has to chip away at mario while mario only has to find one opening. the reason the matchup is truly bad for mario is the juggling situations and how much damage cloud can get out of them. mario is almost defenseless in juggling situations if you play them properly as cloud, making it difficult for him to regain any sense of control and forcing mario to take a lot of damage in order to land. even retreating to the ledge isn't good because mario's ledge options get walled out. in killing situations, cloud is much more difficult to deal with for mario than vice versa because cloud just has more options to kill you and will turn juggle situations into KOs frequently. even if you're jumping, that doesn't mean mario can just up smash you, so long as you ensure that you outspace him. as for ground pokes, i think you're forgetting non-limit cross slash, which is generally a fantastic tool for combatting mario's typical approaches and rather safe if used properly.
ally as a player is very good at sneaking in little pokes and powershields to push himself though his opponent's spacing, which he can then capitalize on as mario. he is also very good at digesting patterns and combatting them with his own reads, making his opponents scared to use their best options. he plays both the cloud and marcina matchups, in my opinion, as close to perfect as possible while being one of the best players skill-wise ever to touch the game. yet, he has still struggled on numerous occasions with these matchups. as an extension of this, if you look at matchup charts from players of both cloud and mario, it is almost universally agreed that the matchup is 55-45~60-40 in cloud's favor, even among players that have won or lost notable sets in the matchup before. this talk is definitely jumping the gun.
regarding
the king of murder
in particular, walling out mario as cloud is not risky, and you have numerous effective tools for doing so, including bair, fair, nair, dair, and cross slash. it is in fact quite difficult to get in for mario, and this idea of 'offense vs defense' balancing out implies that cloud has to chip away at mario while mario only has to find one opening. the reason the matchup is truly bad for mario is the juggling situations and how much damage cloud can get out of them. mario is almost defenseless in juggling situations if you play them properly as cloud, making it difficult for him to regain any sense of control and forcing mario to take a lot of damage in order to land. even retreating to the ledge isn't good because mario's ledge options get walled out. in killing situations, cloud is much more difficult to deal with for mario than vice versa because cloud just has more options to kill you and will turn juggle situations into KOs frequently. even if you're jumping, that doesn't mean mario can just up smash you, so long as you ensure that you outspace him. as for ground pokes, i think you're forgetting non-limit cross slash, which is generally a fantastic tool for combatting mario's typical approaches and rather safe if used properly.ally as a player is very good at sneaking in little pokes and powershields to push himself though his opponent's spacing, which he can then capitalize on as mario. he is also very good at digesting patterns and combatting them with his own reads, making his opponents scared to use their best options. he plays both the cloud and marcina matchups, in my opinion, as close to perfect as possible while being one of the best players skill-wise ever to touch the game. yet, he has still struggled on numerous occasions with these matchups. as an extension of this, if you look at matchup charts from players of both cloud and mario, it is almost universally agreed that the matchup is 55-45~60-40 in cloud's favor, even among players that have won or lost notable sets in the matchup before. this talk is definitely jumping the gun.
