Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Teshie U]

If a theoretical character had winning or even (at worst) matchups with the entire cast except 1 character that it lost to horribly, would this character be considered good or bad?

I wonder what most of us here find more relevant to a higher tier placement.

I think the smash 4 meta is in a place where characters should be rated more as tools for a player to use when applicable and less as laws to limit yourself with for an entire bracket.

If you can only use 1 character, Cloud would be the best pick, but it seems like alot of players can have a viable roster with high and mid tiers + secondary (probably cloud).


I'd need to see Trela vs some strong zoning characters before I'm sure about Ryu. Most zoners suffer vs rage and we are only human, people get in now and then when they shouldn't. I wonder if strong zoning would make up for how oppressive Ryu is once he gets near you.

 

[Peppermint1201]

If a theoretical character had winning or even (at worst) matchups with the entire cast except 1 character that it lost to horribly, would this character be considered good or bad?

As long as Cloud goes even or better with its bad matchup, the character would be very good.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think the community as a whole will sooner or later have to come to terms with the fact that making a tier list for smash 4 is pointless. Other concepts need to be taken into consideration. The way @Dabuz classified characters into different categories is a good start as it doesn't require us to lead pointless arguments over whether character X is better than character Y.

And creating a decent community-based matchup chart would be practically impossible to do.


But something like this would be more practical than a tier list without being any less accurate [if not moreso]:

Spoiler: AT LEAST MORE ACCURATE THAN OP LOLOLOL

*Category #1: Characters that might have 45/55 matchups against their favor though possibly not losing any at all.


*Category #2: Characters that have only one truly and solidly disadvantaged matchup.


*Category #3: Characters that have a handful of slightly disadvantaged matchups only.


*Category #4: Characters that have one truly and solidly disadvantaged matchup + a handful of slightly disadvantaged ones.


*Category #5: Characters that have only few but decisively disadvantaged matchups.

 

[sups48]

Hmmmm.

Maybe Sheik? But I don't think the match is terrible. Bowser actually does well. I legit think Cloud might lose now that I think about it. I think CF does ok. People are saying Megaman but I'm not so sure. He def has an easier time breaking MM's zone then alot of other chars thanks to that dair and that insane dash attack.

IMO Cloud loses 45/50.

Cloud is forced to play Mega's game the whole match and if he gets to aggressive a power shield up-tilt kills at 70 with low rage and while pellets can be swatted away it gives Mega Man the needed space since you have to commit. Cloud doesn't like being offstage but goes double with Mega Man's ledge traps and edge guarding. Mega man cant't sit and spam lemons he got to be smart with retreating Nair but Cloud has to work so much more than in most of his other match ups. Also didn't M2K say it was a bad match up when he lost to Scatt.

 

[Jamurai]

Old browser @ work making me error-post for the first time, apologies.

 

[PK Gaming]

I think the community as a whole will sooner or later have to come to terms with the fact that making a tier list for smash 4 is pointless. Other concepts need to be taken into consideration. The way @Dabuz classified characters into different categories is a good start as it doesn't require us to lead pointless arguments over whether character X is better than character Y.

And creating a decent community-based matchup chart would be practically impossible to do.


But something like this would be more practical than a tier list without being any less accurate [if not moreso]:

Spoiler: AT LEAST MORE ACCURATE THAN OP LOLOLOL

*Category #1: Characters that might have 45/55 matchups against their favor though possibly not losing any at all.


*Category #2: Characters that have only one truly and solidly disadvantaged matchup.


*Category #3: Characters that have a handful of slightly disadvantaged matchups only.


*Category #4: Characters that have one truly and solidly disadvantaged matchup + a handful of slightly disadvantaged ones.


*Category #5: Characters that have only few but decisively disadvantaged matchups.

I'm inclined to agree. The fire emblem community made a tier list for Fire Emblem Fates tier list in a similar manner, because listing all of the characters in order was honestly pointless.

Though at the same time, I kind of want to keep the old system. All fighting games have tier lists and it would be weird if the official tier list was broken up to categories that are more abstract than your average S, A, B, C, etc categories.

 

[Jamurai]

I think the community as a whole will sooner or later have to come to terms with the fact that making a tier list for smash 4 is pointless. Other concepts need to be taken into consideration. The way @Dabuz classified characters into different categories is a good start as it doesn't require us to lead pointless arguments over whether character X is better than character Y.

And creating a decent community-based matchup chart would be practically impossible to do.


But something like this would be more practical than a tier list without being any less accurate [if not moreso]:

Spoiler: AT LEAST MORE ACCURATE THAN OP LOLOLOL

*Category #1: Characters that might have 45/55 matchups against their favor though possibly not losing any at all.


*Category #2: Characters that have only one truly and solidly disadvantaged matchup.


*Category #3: Characters that have a handful of slightly disadvantaged matchups only.


*Category #4: Characters that have one truly and solidly disadvantaged matchup + a handful of slightly disadvantaged ones.


*Category #5: Characters that have only few but decisively disadvantaged matchups.

Out of interest, which of Meta Knight's matchups do you consider to be solidly disadvantaged? Most MK users disagree on the subject, some think he doesn't have anything worse than -1 (albeit quite a few of them, and most of them "top tiers").

IMO Cloud loses 45/50.

Cloud is forced to play Mega's game the whole match and if he gets to aggressive a power shield up-tilt kills at 70 with low rage and while pellets can be swatted away it gives Mega Man the needed space since you have to commit. Cloud doesn't like being offstage but goes double with Mega Man's ledge traps and edge guarding. Mega man cant't sit and spam lemons he got to be smart with retreating Nair but Cloud has to work so much more than in most of his other match ups. Also didn't M2K say it was a bad match up when he lost to Scatt.

M2K has a history of saying things like that when he loses. Also, I think people say MM is a bad matchup a lot when they don't know it / are learning it because he's a weird character and is annoying af to play against. The way you describe the MU makes it seem pretty bad for Cloud, but you preface it by saying it's 45:55 or basically even. Which is it? If it is even, what particular advantages does Cloud have which bring it swinging back?

Not really seeing how a Cloud worth his salt will space so badly at high % that he will get hit by powershield Utilt, so I'd say that's irrelevant.

 

[Das Koopa]

Character scores, from first post-1.1.6 tourney to June 5th. Weighted Top 16.

Spoiler

Sheik: 121
Diddy Kong: 94
Cloud: 82
Fox: 80
Mario: 58.5
Sonic: 58
Zero Suit Samus: 49.5
Rosalina & Luma: 49.5
Meta Knight: 43.5
Captain Falcon: 37.5
Ryu: 32
Marth: 31
Pikachu: 31
Bayonetta: 27.5
Peach: 27
Donkey Kong: 23
Toon Link: 22.5
Little Mac: 19
Ness: 18.5
Greninja: 18.5
Lucas: 18
R.O.B: 17.5
Luigi: 17
Duck Hunt: 17
Robin: 17
Yoshi: 16
Ike: 14
Mega Man: 12
Pit: 12
Lucario: 11
Bowser: 11
Mewtwo: 11
Villager: 10
Wario: 8
Olimar: 8
Palutena: 8
Bowser Jr.: 7
King Dedede: 7
Corrin: 6.5
Shulk: 5
Link: 5
Mr. Game & Watch: 4
Falco: 2.5
Kirby: 2
Zelda: 2
Mii Brawler: 2
Pac-Man: 1

 

[Vhaltz]

Fox reprising his role, except no one can infinite or 0-death grab combo him anymore. WHY NOT!? COME ON. IT'S BEEN THIS WAY IN EVERY OTHER SMASH GAME THUS FAR.

Super late response but technically Luigi can do it in two different ways!

With his back to the ledge, Luigi can dthrow -> upsmash, regrab, dthrow to fair to dair offstage and cyclone semispike.
With some stage space, Luigi can dthrow -> upsmash, regrab, dthrow -> fair nair, regrab, fthrow and fireball reset into upB. This one requires Fox's player to miss a tech, but still technically a 0 to death!

 

[Jalil]

I'm the opposite, I left the Roy discord and I don't go on the Roy forums anymore because of all the insane **** I see on there. A good amount of people in the Roy social genuinely think Roy is high tier. There is thinking a character is underrated like I believe Charizard is, and then there is just being a character loyalist to the point where you are almost intentionally being dishonest with yourself. You shouldn't have to feel like one of your favorite characters is super competitively viable to enjoy them. There's nothing wrong with accepting a character has genuine, crippling flaws and still wanting to push them and their meta to the limit anyways.

I disagree with a lot of things ESAM says, but in his video whining about people who discredited Bayonetta players, I think he made a good point. Decide exactly what you want out of this game. Do you want to be the best in the world? The best at your locals? The best at your particular character of choice? Don't choose knowingly to play a garbage character and then ***** about them being garbage.

Personally I want to be the best I can be with my favorite characters. If I wanted to be *really* serious with this game, I wouldn't play Roy and Olimar at my locals, I'd play Diddy Kong and Cloud instead. And that's okay for me to do.

There's always going to be some optimism or pessimism when discussing how good characters are, but just try to keep it within the realm of reason you know? Those guys in the Roy forums who think he's some secret top tier that people just don't UNDERSTAND yet need to learn that ****. And remember, unless you are a top top player, which nobody who will read this is except for Dabuz and Trela because I know they lurk here, there ARE Jigglypuffs out there who can wreck you in this game.

What's wrong with letting people think their character is some secret high tier as long as they're still working to progress that characters meta?

 

[Darktundra]

Mega Man is a strong zoner that can apply pressure from all distances. Learning the match is hard because players get agitated when they are taken pellets. His ability to force approaches with a mid to low risk increases the difficulty in terms of maintenance of stage control. Bad matchups against zoners tend to be characters with difficulty approaching, low mobility, transcendent hitboxes and bad ground game.
Deal with Mega Man by surviving higher percents, his kill moves are predictable, straightforward, and importantly, punishable. Mega Man is force to approach the opponent; it really feels bad for Mega Man to play catch-up because he have limited options that are effective. Many will stale moves that would have been valuable on your second stock. Mega Man is a mentally taxing character but when he's behind that power is nonexistent. He's a great character to learn neutral meta-game due to his overwhelming stage prescence, slightly more fun than kirby to play against.

 

[Hero_2_All]

well esam just dropped part 2 of his tier list... Ike is the upper end of lows in "potential tier" while Corrin is not.... pulls up lawn chair*

 

[C0rvus]

It's like watching a car crash; you can't pry your eyes away, but you're better off ignoring it. I know I will try. After ESAM continues to spread misinformation about characters like Duck Hunt over and over again, I can't care anymore. I have no reason to listen to his opinions to begin with.

 

[Ninety]

Character scores, from first post-1.1.6 tourney to June 5th. Weighted Top 16.

Spoiler

Sheik: 121
Diddy Kong: 94
Cloud: 82
Fox: 80
Mario: 58.5
Sonic: 58
Zero Suit Samus: 49.5
Rosalina & Luma: 49.5
Meta Knight: 43.5
Captain Falcon: 37.5
Ryu: 32
Marth: 31
Pikachu: 31
Bayonetta: 27.5
Peach: 27
Donkey Kong: 23
Toon Link: 22.5
Little Mac: 19
Ness: 18.5
Greninja: 18.5
Lucas: 18
R.O.B: 17.5
Luigi: 17
Duck Hunt: 17
Robin: 17
Yoshi: 16
Ike: 14
Mega Man: 12
Pit: 12
Lucario: 11
Bowser: 11
Mewtwo: 11
Villager: 10
Wario: 8
Olimar: 8
Palutena: 8
Bowser Jr.: 7
King Dedede: 7
Corrin: 6.5
Shulk: 5
Link: 5
Mr. Game & Watch: 4
Falco: 2.5
Kirby: 2
Zelda: 2
Mii Brawler: 2
Pac-Man: 1

Guess Duck Hunt's recent results aren't top 15-20 after all.

 

[teddystalin]

Guess Duck Hunt's recent results aren't top 15-20 after all.

Bear in mind that this is an interesting look at tournaments from the past 2.5 weeks, not the gospel on the 1.1.6 meta.

Ike is the upper end of lows in "potential tier" while Corrin is not.... pulls up lawn chair*

Why has there been such a feud set up between these two characters in this thread? It hasn't been very constructive and only serves to expose the ugly side of character loyalty.

 

[Jexulus]

Bear in mind that this is an interesting look at tournaments from the past 2.5 weeks, not the gospel on the 1.1.6 meta.

There's also the fact that there's probably player overlap and that most players will stick with their character, regardless of patch changes. While Sheik doesn't win every single tournament, a big reason why Sheik's point count is so high is that so many players still play her, even if she hasn't been lauded as the best in the game since 1.1.3/1.1.4.

A list like this is skewed for two reasons:
1. It's only been two and a half weeks. For something long term as a patch season, this isn't enough time to determine trends.
2. Unlike traditional tier lists, this is heavily affected by how many players play each character.

The second one isn't really an issue so long as there's enough data to pull from. I don't think less than three weeks' worth is enough. I do like how it juxtaposes theoretical and actual placements, though.

 

[Tizio Random]

Some impression from these 1.1.6 results so far:

• 12th in results for this patch with great theory to backup and still too many people don't see him higher than mid tier. It's a real pity no one mains because I'm sure she can get the same results.
  
• isn't incredibly high but for a character that some perceive as bottom 5-10 this is a sign to reevaluate their position.
• Surprised for the good results by (<3), and even and considering their poor position in the metagame
• is still a good character
• The top 8 characters (before they were 9 with ) are still dominating

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Out of interest, which of Meta Knight's matchups do you consider to be solidly disadvantaged? Most MK users disagree on the subject, some think he doesn't have anything worse than -1 (albeit quite a few of them, and most of them "top tiers").

I couldn't tell you for sure but between Sonic, Mario, Fox and Diddy I wouldn't be surprised if there were one solid 4/6 disadvantage included. If I'm wrong it doesn't really matter though because I'm not specifically arguing individual matchups.

Guess Duck Hunt's recent results aren't top 15-20 after all.

The most recent results of the japanese DH trio [Brood, Yousan, Raito] are already included in last months rankings. The only other recent result is ImHip using him as a secondary which doesn't add that many points.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

So......what are people's opinions of Peach now? Surly they should have improved.

.....I miss playing her so much, but MY GOD she is SO FREAKING technical and complicated.....when I see EOE's videos of her combos and other shenanigans.....it makes me wonder......why did I even try to play this damn character? Leagues of tech that she has and some are still being discovered, 2 potential infinities, a float mechanic meaning she can attack while holding her projectile, it's....its just too much for someone like me.

But I will always love that awesome stock face ......the beautiful princess who kicks butt......with her own butt

 

[LancerStaff]

What's wrong with letting people think their character is some secret high tier as long as they're still working to progress that characters meta?

It's fine when they're not super insistent on it or get upset when you disagree.

 

[C0rvus]

I think that a part of your success as a player comes from the characters you play (duh) and how you perceive them. If you're of the mind that your main is underrated, actually quite a good character after all, etc. Then I think it has a positive effect on your morale and mentality. You are less likely to blame losses on the short comings of your main, and more likely to see it as your own fault. Having a goal of changing peoples' minds through your play or the like seems like decent motivation as well.

Conversely, if the character you elect to invest time into and bring to tournaments isn't one you find to be very good, it will affect your play as well. It's there when you lose a close set, in the back of your mind when you shake your opponent's hand. "Maybe I would've won if I had put all that time into Fox or Cloud or Mario." Mindset is a personal struggle, and I'm sure many can relate. It all comes back to the reasons you play and your goals.

 

[TDK]

If we get someone who can play to the level of Armada's then everyone would see her as a top tier.

 

[Radical Larry]

I think that a part of your success as a player comes from the characters you play (duh) and how you perceive them. If you're of the mind that your main is underrated, actually quite a good character after all, etc. Then I think it has a positive effect on your morale and mentality. You are less likely to blame losses on the short comings of your main, and more likely to see it as your own fault. Having a goal of changing peoples' minds through your play or the like seems like decent motivation as well.

Conversely, if the character you elect to invest time into and bring to tournaments isn't one you find to be very good, it will affect your play as well. It's there when you lose a close set, in the back of your mind when you shake your opponent's hand. "Maybe I would've won if I had put all that time into Fox or Cloud or Mario." Mindset is a personal struggle, and I'm sure many can relate. It all comes back to the reasons you play and your goals.

This is why I keep playing Link. If I invested time in other, higher tiered characters, I'd have significantly less fun than with Link, I'd never have the same morale as playing Link and I'd more than likely get bored from playing Smash as a whole. This is why I dislike the general use (mostly) of characters above low high tier and upper middle tier and tend to avoid them. My only exception has to be Cloud.

 

[|RK|]

Some impression from these 1.1.6 results so far:

• is still a good character

By this metric, so is this thread's favorite mouse. But that's a can of worms, I suppose.

I think that a part of your success as a player comes from the characters you play (duh) and how you perceive them. If you're of the mind that your main is underrated, actually quite a good character after all, etc. Then I think it has a positive effect on your morale and mentality. You are less likely to blame losses on the short comings of your main, and more likely to see it as your own fault. Having a goal of changing peoples' minds through your play or the like seems like decent motivation as well.

Conversely, if the character you elect to invest time into and bring to tournaments isn't one you find to be very good, it will affect your play as well. It's there when you lose a close set, in the back of your mind when you shake your opponent's hand. "Maybe I would've won if I had put all that time into Fox or Cloud or Mario." Mindset is a personal struggle, and I'm sure many can relate. It all comes back to the reasons you play and your goals.

Most recently, Lord Mix's "Bowser's high tier when I play him," and backing that up.

 

[Trifroze]

What's wrong with letting people think their character is some secret high tier as long as they're still working to progress that characters meta?

People's thoughts are never isolated from what they do or how they treat things.

Spreading misinformation and judging reality based on it never brings a better outcome than refraining from doing such.

 

[Radical Larry]

Sadly, there are some great players to their characters who are unable to get to tournaments to justify the claims of their character being better than people think.

...that's also my case.

 

[Das Koopa]

Researching entrant lists on Smash.gg (part of my region map research) has led to me creating this little thing:

-Alaskan people attend out of state a lot (I have no idea)
-Arkansas and Mississippi are d e a d
-Not especially sure about MD/VA since S@X isn't on Smash.gg and thus lacks attendees state origins. This leads to me not knowing if WV is a dead zone, if North Carolina is more active, etc.
-Iowa is strangely inactive for the most part. Missouri and Nebraska get more entrants. Kansas is more or less a dead zone too but I put it at "limited" because MJG.

 

[Radical Larry]

Looking at this, this just makes me feel sad to be in Louisiana.

 

[PK Gaming]

I think a distinction should be drawn between what people like Sol and LordMix who genuinely believe in their character's strength and push them to their limit and diehard character loyalists who focus too much on "how high their character is in the tier list."

One is a beneficial mindset while the other... isn't.

 

[MachoCheeze]

This leads to me not knowing if WV is a dead zone, if North Carolina is more active, etc.

WV has Van (@Blasiancoolio) who regularly attends S@X and Washington D.C. tournaments since he lives in the Eastern Panhandle when he's not in school. SuperDavio (who lives in the North near WVU) regularly attends Pittsburgh tournaments. The South WV scene (Marshall University) have carpooled up to Pittsburgh and Ohio tournaments too. A good number of us attended Pound and I think a decent number of us are gonna go to Smash Con.

We have our own monthly which both North and South WV usually attends: AFK Games Monthly.

We're a pretty small scene in the grand scheme of things but we're trying to grow!

 

[Mario766]

Corrin is yet another poster child of characters people believe are really good, but have zero results to back it up. Corrin also doesn't have that one huge player who can back the character in some way shape or form. There's no ESAM, that's for sure, if the character was truly that good, we'd have people showing up at tournaments with the character outside of a really rare CP.

Marth results are showing up, Mr. E is having great results and is going OoS more often, that's great for the character, but when the next thing is Lucina...it won't happen. The character is just a worse version of Marth, there's actually zero reason to pick the character when you don't get anything off having a single hitbox on the blade, because Marth still has better safety, better kill power and better combo ability off non-tipper/tipper hits.

Ike still can't get out of the 17th curse, San was the chosen one to break us of this curse, but it's back and stronger than ever. Diddy being popular is also a thorn in our side.

Sheik still has the highest placings in top 16. She still also has some of the worst consistency for a top tier character, with now having Void exiting Mexico Saga extremely early, losing to a G&W. Hand issues aside, we take those. The solo Sheiks are having a very hard time getting consistent results lately, and I don't think it'll stop anytime soon.

Bayo is still good, but people really need to get on the SDI train, watching a Bayo do pre-patch stuff because people can't SDI is really saddening.

 

[Yikarur]

Bayo is still good, but people really need to get on the SDI train, watching a Bayo do pre-patch stuff because people can't SDI is really saddening.

it's not that easy. If it were they would've ruined the character what they clearly didn't.

 

[Hero_2_All]

Bear in mind that this is an interesting look at tournaments from the past 2.5 weeks, not the gospel on the 1.1.6 meta.



Why has there been such a feud set up between these two characters in this thread? It hasn't been very constructive and only serves to expose the ugly side of character loyalty.

Its just kinda stems from the bashing of Corrin by some of Ike's mains. The problem really starts at release with Corrin being a character that does many similar things Ike does well, but better. While Ike only has a couple things he has better than Corrin (from a theory perspective). This upon release had Ryuga arguably the second best Ike behind Ryo, drop Ike and pick up Corrin ( Ryo is god tier loyalist and will never do so... His Ike rap man). Ryuga then proceeds to beat Ally, and get 2nd at landlocked a stacked tourney with solo Corrin, this prompts a Corrin hype, and allot of top players started to rate her highly... namely ZeRo. So this really made Corrin a target to be torn down , especially due to her being hailed as best FE character by a large portion of the community. Now the opening to bring down Corrin began when immediately after landlocked Ryuga goes on a long hiatus, and won't be back until mid summer after CEO. So Corrin looses its best and only close to top player solo rep. What Corrin is left with is a bunch of mid and high lvl, but no top lvl solo mains. Her regional results remained good with standouts like Cosmos, hakii, Dexter, and others, but she lacks any sort of national lvl rep, and that is the results that most people look at. Now after a couple months of hiatus by Ryuga Corrin has had very few national lvl showings, most of which are not in north america (pretty much none in the US). The current somewhat boiling point kind came with that observation. It's a whole lot of " see Corrin doesn't do well at large tournaments, there are no Corrins in these national top 32's, but hey look there is a well known Ike and Marth! Ike and Marth are so much better objectivity because of this!". Of course in these tournies the fact of the matter is there are no Corrin's of note. We really only have one tourney of note with a Corrin solo main of a known top player, and that ended in 2nd place. It's obviously to early to tell how viable she is, but people act like Corrin not showing up at tournaments in top 32 with no Corrins there is definitive proof she is not viable, when the time a known top corrin main has show up she has done well. Tl;DR Corrin's lack of top lvl solo rep is hurting her perceived viability a ton.

 

[Mario766]

it's not that easy. If it were they would've ruined the character what they clearly didn't.

It may not be, but there's a good chunk of this game that becomes a lot less punishing if you can SDI semi-well. Smash 4 players have forgotten about this, while players of Melee/Brawl haven't and should bring it back.

 

[Patriarachnid]

Bayo is still good, but people really need to get on the SDI train, watching a Bayo do pre-patch stuff because people can't SDI is really saddening.

Speaking as a Bayo main, I used to think so too (about SDI-ing her combos, I mean), but now I'm not so sure. She just has SO MANY OPTIONS with how she pulls off her combos, and they all vary so much with % and DI. Getting out of them takes more than just 'down and away'; you have to read what she'll do next, AND the Bayo has to fail to read that SDI. Failing to do that probably won't cost you your whole stock, like it did before, but it can cost you a lot of %.

Basically, I think the future of the Bayo meta depends largely on how well she can optimize her mix-up game.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Researching entrant lists on Smash.gg (part of my region map research) has led to me creating this little thing:

-Alaskan people attend out of state a lot (I have no idea)
-Arkansas and Mississippi are d e a d
-Not especially sure about MD/VA since S@X isn't on Smash.gg and thus lacks attendees state origins. This leads to me not knowing if WV is a dead zone, if North Carolina is more active, etc.
-Iowa is strangely inactive for the most part. Missouri and Nebraska get more entrants. Kansas is more or less a dead zone too but I put it at "limited" because MJG.

Interesting. I will say for SD that their smash scene is still newish and alot of their players go to their locals or go to Nebraska tourneys OOS ATM and Iowa dont travel too much but their scene is getting on the up and coming in structure . Nebraska is so so for OOS stuff we mostly go to states near us like this past Saturday a few of our players went to MO for a tourney and outside of that Combo Breaker a week or two ago but that was 1.15 and Super Bit Wars back in Feb of this year.

 

[Ninety]

If we get someone who can play to the level of Armada's then everyone would see her as a top tier.

Might as well say Smash 4 Marth would be top tier if only someone would play him at the level of PPMD's Melee Marth.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Why has there been such a feud set up between these two characters in this thread? It hasn't been very constructive and only serves to expose the ugly side of character loyalty.

Less character loyalty and more well... every Ike main pretty much gave Corrin a serious shot when they first came out because most FE fans at least dabble with all of the other FE characters. I think like half of the guys in the Ike Skype have a pocket Marth, Roy, or Lucina. Only Ryuga felt they were really good, the rest was mainly "meh" and Ryo just adding them to his rotation like he did when Roy came out. Solid character, roughly around Ike's strength level give or take a few spots (once you factored in that counter getting nerfed, everyone knew it was coming), not worth making a serious commitment to.

Meanwhile, everyone else and their mother was hyping up Corrin as if they were the next Brawl Marth and claiming there was no reason to use Ike. Which gets irritating when it just doesn't measure out like that. And then people keep doing that still despite Corrin falling flat results wise. And refuse to accept the reality of his results. And then you have people like Dabuz thinking Ike has no mains left because Ryuga switched and then vanished, and Ryo was using Corrin more for a month to get a feel for them before mostly shelving them... and then either not acknowledging his results or going "GOLM doesn't really count as a major".

So, less blind loyalty and more we keep feeling we're getting brushed aside despite Ike being more relevant in the current metagame when Corrin only has "potential" going for them. Something you can't measure and in my case at least... I've heard that buzz word more than enough times from back in Brawl. It never panned out outside of maaaaaybe Sonic depending on if you want to argue it being "potential" or "mains finally traveling to a major". It just doesn't mean anything, only there to drive undeserved hype.

Also Fates is not a real Fire Emblem game, manages to have an even worse plot than Awakening did while spreading it across three games all trying to shove half of a dating sim at you. Thank goodness its reception was worse than Awakening's, we might get a proper FE game again next time. I mean Awakening wasn't really what I'd call a proper FE either but it had the excuse of thinking it was going to be the last one ever and going out with a bang + giving fans a crazy combination of things from previous games + crazy fan ideas that don't fit well in FE like Pair Up.

 

[Das Koopa]

I suppose I should correct myself - Idaho isn't as inactive as I thought, they had a 96 man regional called "Sanctum" last weekend. I'll get to documenting that and will likely add Idaho to the PNW, considering the tourney drew in B.C players, Washington players, and Oregon players.

Montana/North Dakota/Wyoming really do seem especially inactive though, I might be wrong

 

[williamsga555]

Like Gamegenie222 said, Iowa is still developing. We've got a few ranked players who travel a bit, but most stay in-state or frequent the Nebraska/Minnesota tourneys. We're starting to figure it out a bit, though!