Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Rizen]

Meanwhile, everyone else and their mother was hyping up Corrin as if they were the next Brawl Marth and claiming there was no reason to use Ike. Which gets irritating when it just doesn't measure out like that.

This is how players felt about . Will you be my friend?


Seriously though, TL is getting better placings than Link. It shows how much mobility and safety are factors in making characters good. is a prime example.

 

[Gunla]

Chiming in to confirm on the Iowa talk.

The scene is getting up there, especially for Smash 4. It's much more active in the Fall/Springtime, but yeah, Iowa players are starting to travel a bit more. There's around 20 heading to SNS2 from Iowa for all games, including EcneBanjo, Prophet, Di KinG, GNOX, 1N, and the like in terms of ranked players for Smash 4. There's going to be a bit of a bigger push to attend more OOS stuff for more than just our ranked players and a few others as Fall rolls around, however. The structure of the scene is growing a bit more with more streaming, tournaments and organized and professional rankings being made/regulated.

 

[Zelder]

Also Fates is not a real Fire Emblem game, manages to have an even worse plot than Awakening did while spreading it across three games all trying to shove half of a dating sim at you. Thank goodness its reception was worse than Awakening's, we might get a proper FE game again next time. I mean Awakening wasn't really what I'd call a proper FE either but it had the excuse of thinking it was going to be the last one ever and going out with a bang + giving fans a crazy combination of things from previous games + crazy fan ideas that don't fit well in FE like Pair Up.

I hate to go off on a tangent (but not enough to not make this post lol), but what are you talking about? I thought Fates broke sales records for the series and was well received by fans and newcomers, and I've only heard good things about the gameplay (plus I personally quite enjoyed both versions myself). The plot...I'll give you that one.

 

[TDK]

Might as well say Smash 4 Marth would be top tier if only someone would play him at the level of PPMD's Melee Marth.

At least Smash 4 Peach is sort of the same character as Melee Peach while Smash 4 Marth and Melee Marth are completely different.

 

[Das Koopa]

but I can't Down Smash into win in Smash 4 with Peach

 

[Aaron1997]

Das Koopa RIP my state.
Its getting alot better in Arkansas though. Alot of us is going to start Traveling starting at LTC4. Including me at WTFox.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Speaking of regions, I think you should know Ktar is about to end in NJ( last one on June 11th) and Apex is kinda sluggish this year, with only a few big names entering. However, there is a new monthly called warpath that just started up in NJ. Das Koopa

 

[LancerStaff]

I hate to go off on a tangent (but not enough to not make this post lol), but what are you talking about? I thought Fates broke sales records for the series, and I've only heard good things about the gameplay (plus I personally quite enjoyed both versions myself). The plot...I'll give you that one.

People seemed to of realized Awakening's story was a shallow mess and were quite upset when they advertised a better story ("hey we got suchinsuch Manga writer so expect something at least as coherent as the older games") and hyped up the choice when in reality the plot managed to be worse then Awakening's, on top of the localization woes, (in this case they did screw up some things but IDGAF because it was drivel anyway,) SMTxFE not having much of a relation to either series and Corrin getting into Smash as DLC fanning the flames.

Personally I prefer Fates but still don't really like any of the FE games besides PoR anyway, so yeah...

Yep, slow day in the CCI.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Fates is a medieval inspired setting RPG game with a grid-styled game board with units moving a set amount to fight other enemies with weapons spanning different categories each with advantages and disadvantages.

That's as much a Fire Emblem game as it gets. And that's from someone who thinks FE Tellius is the apex of the series anyway.





I'm a bit surprised OK is considered as having a more flourishing scene compared to AR. Is it because we travel to Texas more?

 

[PK Gaming]

I hate to go off on a tangent (but not enough to not make this post lol), but what are you talking about? I thought Fates broke sales records for the series and was well received by fans and newcomers, and I've only heard good things about the gameplay (plus I personally quite enjoyed both versions myself). The plot...I'll give you that one.

It did so well Nintendo now considers it a major IP, which is a boon for Fire Emblem no matter how you slice it. The story doesn't even come close to measuring up to the previous games, but the gameplay easily eclipses it. (especially on Conquest)

Incidentally, I've always thought the "not a real X game" statements to be incredibly myopic. You're not really saying anything of value when you say that, it's just a thought terminating phrase.

Re: Corrin vs Ike mains

Your guess is as good as mine. I'd like for us to get along, but Ike mains and Corrin mains don't seem to mix for some reason. I mean we're partly at fault for overhyping our character, but everyone makes mistakes...

Time to let bygones be bygones and break bread with each other.

 

[Das Koopa]

i missed this

Sanctum (May 28th-May 29th) (Pacific Northwest) (96 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: TSS ,
2nd: TEG| Pow
3rd: FedvsRafa ,
4th: Monster_
5th: BestNess
5th: Dank
7th: Nunu ,
7th: Justice , ,
9th: Calculus
9th: Marty-O
9th: ET ,
9th: Brosuke2
13th: Sqigly
13th: October Scream ,
13th: Marathon ,
13th: D5 Spartan

 

[ARGHETH]

I hate to go off on a tangent (but not enough to not make this post lol), but what are you talking about? I thought Fates broke sales records for the series and was well received by fans and newcomers, and I've only heard good things about the gameplay (plus I personally quite enjoyed both versions myself). The plot...I'll give you that one.

Fates is generally well-received with newcomers. Birthright's story is seen as good enough, while veterans like Conquest's gameplay (on Reddit I've seen more than a few veterans say Conquest's gameplay is one of the best in FE).

Corrin/Ike:
I get your reasoning (kind of), but could you guys please tone it down? For me personally, it's getting to the point where I expect several Ike mains to complain whenever someone says Corrin's at all viable.

 

[Asdioh]

Can you remind me what your categories mean, Koopa?
And in general, how tournaments are ranked outside of the word "category?" Like Marss was confirmed for Apex, and then people said Apex isn't a major, and I have no idea what "major" means compared to "national" "supernational" "regional" and etc. It's too vague and confusing.

I ask because "category 1" sounds like the most important thing possible, though evidently it's not, as 96 players isn't much, and I don't recognize many names as being top players, and someone asked about a week back if category 1 was the top and to ignore him if he was wrong, and someone responded with "this is me ignoring this" which doesn't exactly explain things because people like to be vague in forum posts ugh

 

[Locke 06]

Researching entrant lists on Smash.gg (part of my region map research) has led to me creating this little thing:

-Alaskan people attend out of state a lot (I have no idea)
-Arkansas and Mississippi are d e a d
-Not especially sure about MD/VA since S@X isn't on Smash.gg and thus lacks attendees state origins. This leads to me not knowing if WV is a dead zone, if North Carolina is more active, etc.
-Iowa is strangely inactive for the most part. Missouri and Nebraska get more entrants. Kansas is more or less a dead zone too but I put it at "limited" because MJG.

Oregon has an active scene. They attend a lot of Seattle stuff, but that's because we're the center of EWA/BC/Oregon. Our region is starting to get a lot closer and people are more willing to travel, so I'd be willing to list Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland as activity centers since the 3 host rather large events.

Also, Sanctum was at Anime Oasis and the smash 4 bracket was free for entering. No notable BC/WWA tournament players.

 

[Radical Larry]

This is how players felt about . Will you be my friend?


Seriously though, TL is getting better placings than Link. It shows how much mobility and safety are factors in making characters good. is a prime example.

But then there are so many other factors in what makes a character good. Toon Link has mobility, safety, good projectile game and definitely some decent kill power and combo ability, but he also lacks ways to get out of combos or juggles, his recovery move itself sucks (although his recovery is great) and Toon Link doesn't have the range that Link has.

But remember, it all comes to preference.

i missed this

Sanctum (May 28th-May 29th) (Pacific Northwest) (96 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: TSS ,
2nd: TEG| Pow
3rd: FedvsRafa ,
4th: Monster_
5th: BestNess
5th: Dank
7th: Nunu ,
7th: Justice , ,
9th: Calculus
9th: Marty-O
9th: ET ,
9th: Brosuke2
13th: Sqigly
13th: October Scream ,
13th: Marathon ,
13th: D5 Spartan

And Corrin is totally a top tier character

 

[Emblem Lord]

Fates is a medieval inspired setting RPG game with a grid-styled game board with units moving a set amount to fight other enemies with weapons spanning different categories each with advantages and disadvantages.

That's as much a Fire Emblem game as it gets. And that's from someone who thinks FE Tellius is the apex of the series anyway.





I'm a bit surprised OK is considered as having a more flourishing scene compared to AR. Is it because we travel to Texas more?

Fates doesnt have a weapon triangle.

So Fates is about as FE as it gets?

My man...plz stahp.

 

[Blobface]

Ignore this

 

[san.]

Can people please stop lumping all Ike mains in this Corrin hating business? It's been getting quite annoying, honestly.

 

[Radical Larry]

Can people please stop lumping all Ike mains in this Corrin hating business? It's been getting quite annoying, honestly.

That and the talk of Fates, which is not necessary in this thread and is derailing subjects.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I hate to go off on a tangent (but not enough to not make this post lol), but what are you talking about? I thought Fates broke sales records for the series and was well received by fans and newcomers, and I've only heard good things about the gameplay (plus I personally quite enjoyed both versions myself). The plot...I'll give you that one.

Polling on multiple sites has the overall fan reaction being lower than Awakening. People still like Fates but its sitting more at a 7-8 than the 9 Awakening was at. Also just... looking around the internet in general. Awakening was bragged about for months and months after it came out. Fates had a lot of controversy before the English release and then the hype died down rather quickly into "its decent".

Revelations was just... horrible plot wise. Birthright maps were really weak. Conquest had grab maps but its story was weaker as well. How they explained the child units was down right laughable. Game was not worth buying three times over to get the full thing. Just a whole lot of missteps.

I'll spare you all the not FE rant but... its just not the right type of gameplay outside of Conquest. Toss Pair Up completely, toss the free grinding, toss the second seals and the like, toss the class switching in general, undo the weapon system changes. Thank goodness the usual FE pattern is "2 games, then we ditch a lot of things and change things up".

---

I can't exactly tone it down myself ARGHETH . Get people to stop being dumb and it will naturally tone down basically. things like Zero's tier list is just... gah. We've done this song and dance with numerous other characters over the last 2 games at least if not 3. Can we stop repeating it please?

Its also not just Ike mains. Other people are picking up Corrin ain't that good. Its just well, some of the more vocal ones like me are Ike mains and we stand out more. -shrugs-

 

[Mr. Johan]

Fates doesnt have a weapon triangle.

So Fates is about as FE as it gets?

Indeed.

 

[teddystalin]

Its just kinda stems from the bashing of Corrin by some of Ike's mains. The problem really starts at release with Corrin being a character that does many similar things Ike does well, but better. While Ike only has a couple things he has better than Corrin (from a theory perspective). This upon release had Ryuga arguably the second best Ike behind Ryo, drop Ike and pick up Corrin ( Ryo is god tier loyalist and will never do so... His Ike rap man). Ryuga then proceeds to beat Ally, and get 2nd at landlocked a stacked tourney with solo Corrin, this prompts a Corrin hype, and allot of top players started to rate her highly... namely ZeRo. So this really made Corrin a target to be torn down , especially due to her being hailed as best FE character by a large portion of the community. Now the opening to bring down Corrin began when immediately after landlocked Ryuga goes on a long hiatus, and won't be back until mid summer after CEO. So Corrin looses its best and only close to top player solo rep. What Corrin is left with is a bunch of mid and high lvl, but no top lvl solo mains. Her regional results remained good with standouts like Cosmos, hakii, Dexter, and others, but she lacks any sort of national lvl rep, and that is the results that most people look at. Now after a couple months of hiatus by Ryuga Corrin has had very few national lvl showings, most of which are not in north america (pretty much none in the US). The current somewhat boiling point kind came with that observation. It's a whole lot of " see Corrin doesn't do well at large tournaments, there are no Corrins in these national top 32's, but hey look there is a well known Ike and Marth! Ike and Marth are so much better objectivity because of this!". Of course in these tournies the fact of the matter is there are no Corrin's of note. We really only have one tourney of note with a Corrin solo main of a known top player, and that ended in 2nd place. It's obviously to early to tell how viable she is, but people act like Corrin not showing up at tournaments in top 32 with no Corrins there is definitive proof she is not viable, when the time a known top corrin main has show up she has done well. Tl;DR Corrin's lack of top lvl solo rep is hurting her perceived viability a ton.

Less character loyalty and more well... every Ike main pretty much gave Corrin a serious shot when they first came out because most FE fans at least dabble with all of the other FE characters. I think like half of the guys in the Ike Skype have a pocket Marth, Roy, or Lucina. Only Ryuga felt they were really good, the rest was mainly "meh" and Ryo just adding them to his rotation like he did when Roy came out. Solid character, roughly around Ike's strength level give or take a few spots (once you factored in that counter getting nerfed, everyone knew it was coming), not worth making a serious commitment to.

Meanwhile, everyone else and their mother was hyping up Corrin as if they were the next Brawl Marth and claiming there was no reason to use Ike. Which gets irritating when it just doesn't measure out like that. And then people keep doing that still despite Corrin falling flat results wise. And refuse to accept the reality of his results. And then you have people like Dabuz thinking Ike has no mains left because Ryuga switched and then vanished, and Ryo was using Corrin more for a month to get a feel for them before mostly shelving them... and then either not acknowledging his results or going "GOLM doesn't really count as a major".

So, less blind loyalty and more we keep feeling we're getting brushed aside despite Ike being more relevant in the current metagame when Corrin only has "potential" going for them. Something you can't measure and in my case at least... I've heard that buzz word more than enough times from back in Brawl. It never panned out outside of maaaaaybe Sonic depending on if you want to argue it being "potential" or "mains finally traveling to a major". It just doesn't mean anything, only there to drive undeserved hype.

Also Fates is not a real Fire Emblem game, manages to have an even worse plot than Awakening did while spreading it across three games all trying to shove half of a dating sim at you. Thank goodness its reception was worse than Awakening's, we might get a proper FE game again next time. I mean Awakening wasn't really what I'd call a proper FE either but it had the excuse of thinking it was going to be the last one ever and going out with a bang + giving fans a crazy combination of things from previous games + crazy fan ideas that don't fit well in FE like Pair Up.

I mean I know the roots of the argument, I just question the reason it's still repeating itself. During past Corrin conversations there used to be long walls of text (ex: 1 2 3 4 5) actually talking about the character and their tools while this back and forth between mains occurred, but lately it's only been the same old "potential v results" argument barely concealing a lot of "which character am I more invested in" undertones in many of the posts. The problem is that this is starting to drown out substantive discussion, which happens a lot on here in response to a character getting overhyped, especially outside of this particular forum. I don't want to see a chorus of little anime heads squabbling with another bunch of little anime heads every time I log on. It'd be a shame if we also had a Pikachu or Roy situation (apparently Greninja now too) occur, where certain characters become their own unspoken red topics.

(fwiw I have a little Corrin head under my name but have played Ike since launch and all this nonsense confuses me.)

Also Das Koopa : VT may as well be black - our largest tournies are tiny (~25 people) and the scene is only a few months old. We're also typically the missing state from New England regionals, though this is slowly changing.

 

[Y2Kay]

Can't wait for fire emblem vs waifu emblem to become a red topic.

 

[Das Koopa]

Can you remind me what your categories mean, Koopa?
And in general, how tournaments are ranked outside of the word "category?" Like Marss was confirmed for Apex, and then people said Apex isn't a major, and I have no idea what "major" means compared to "national" "supernational" "regional" and etc. It's too vague and confusing.

I ask because "category 1" sounds like the most important thing possible, though evidently it's not, as 96 players isn't much, and I don't recognize many names as being top players, and someone asked about a week back if category 1 was the top and to ignore him if he was wrong, and someone responded with "this is me ignoring this" which doesn't exactly explain things because people like to be vague in forum posts ugh

1 is the least important > 4 is the most

Definitions are weird (which is why I came up with a category system anyway) but...

"National" can mean anything depending on what country you're in. Safe to say that a Spain national is probably less important than a big regional in Tristate or SoCal simply because those respective regions are better than entire countries.

Hence, people have gravitated towards the term "Major", which usually encompasses tournaments that have a ton of top-level players. I can't speak for Apex. It has like 5 "top level" players which isn't really comparable to Pound or GOML, so it'll probably get lumped with Category 2, which is for large regionals or relatively unsuccessful attempts at majors, like New!Apex (who thought it was a good idea to put it so close to CEO lmao?)

So it's basically

Category 1 > Regional tournies or large locals with some big players in attendance.
Category 2 > Large regionals, regionals in really good regions like SoCal, etc.
Category 3 > Majors, AKA tournies like GOML, Pound, etc. that attract 400-600 entrants and a decent amount of top level talent.
Category 4 > Supermajors, AKA Genesis 3, Apex 2015, Evo 2015, etc, featuring an extremely high number of entrants from around NA, Japan, and Europe. CEO and EVO are the only slated ones this year atm with Umebara SAT, Smash Con, and TBH6 being up in the air depending on final entrant numbers and attendees.

 

[Joey T.]

The only objective of this Ike vs Corrin is to """decide""" who is the "highest FE rep in the tier list", since they are the two most solid candidates to get to that position, although that is not so sure now with the rise of Marth.
If I can give my opinion, I can see in a near future Marth being the best FE character in the game, since the buffs made him competitive and his meta is being pushed a lot right now by players like Pugwest, Mr. E or False (and some more). The only thing stopping Marth's development is the existence of Cloud, who is arguably a much more solid bet with a similar spacing playstyle.

 

[ARISTOS]

I'll spare you all the not FE rant but... its just not the right type of gameplay outside of Conquest. Toss Pair Up completely, toss the free grinding, toss the second seals and the like, toss the class switching in general, undo the weapon system changes. Thank goodness the usual FE pattern is "2 games, then we ditch a lot of things and change things up"

These sound like personal problems.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I still think Corrin is a strong character, despite lacking results at the moment.

 

[Hero_2_All]

I mean I know the roots of the argument, I just question the reason it's still repeating itself. During past Corrin conversations there used to be long walls of text (ex: 1 2 3 4 5) actually talking about the character and their tools while this back and forth between mains occurred, but lately it's only been the same old "potential v results" argument barely concealing a lot of "which character am I more invested in" undertones in many of the posts. The problem is that this is starting to drown out substantive discussion, which happens a lot on here in response to a character getting overhyped, especially outside of this particular forum. I don't want to see a chorus of little anime heads squabbling with another bunch of little anime heads every time I log on. It'd be a shame if we also had a Pikachu or Roy situation (apparently Greninja now too) occur, where certain characters become their own unspoken red topics.

(fwiw I have a little Corrin head under my name but have played Ike since launch and all this nonsense confuses me.)

Also Das Koopa : VT may as well be black - our largest tournies are tiny (~25 people) and the scene is only a few months old. We're also typically the missing state from New England regionals, though this is slowly changing.

I second this notion.

 

[Mr. Johan]

For now, I'm erring on the side of caution over Marth being considered the best FE character.

Between Brawl and Sm4sh, the only real difference between the two Marths is whether or Marth can throw a second Fair out. It could just be these players working their tried and tested Brawl Marth gameplan into Sm4sh and reaping immediate benefits.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Marth could be the best. Don't know yet, that's going to need a long term look with people getting used to the idea of "oh ya I need to learn that MU now".

They're doing pretty great right now though, no doubt about that.

 

[Strong-Arm]

On the subject of scene activity, MO is alright tho the most notable players we have are Poyo and MJG. Overall we dont travel outside of state too much with the busiest place for tournaments being KC

 

[Ninety]

Also Fates is not a real Fire Emblem game, manages to have an even worse plot than Awakening did while spreading it across three games all trying to shove half of a dating sim at you. Thank goodness its reception was worse than Awakening's, we might get a proper FE game again next time. I mean Awakening wasn't really what I'd call a proper FE either but it had the excuse of thinking it was going to be the last one ever and going out with a bang + giving fans a crazy combination of things from previous games + crazy fan ideas that don't fit well in FE like Pair Up.

bruh

 

[Emblem Lord]

Indeed.

What? Thought it was patched out.

Ah well.

 

[Nu~]

i missed this

Sanctum (May 28th-May 29th) (Pacific Northwest) (96 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: TSS ,
2nd: TEG| Pow

Ayyyy. More Pac-Men are making it I see.

Are there any videos?

 

[Hero_2_All]

Can people please stop lumping all Ike mains in this Corrin hating business? It's been getting quite annoying, honestly.

Nah you, and most you guys are cool San... also Ive always wanted to say this.... nice musashi picture....

 

[Das Koopa]

Ayyyy. More Pac-Men are making it I see.

Are there any videos?

Yeah, this is how I found out who used who:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC4BpaP3l_VlsbUJANLZ_3g/videos

 

[Fatmanonice]

This has been on my mind for awhile but quick shoutout to Das Koopa for regularly posting tournament results. It really helps with the discussions we have around here so thanks for doing it so often.

 

[meticulousboy]

So......what are people's opinions of Peach now? Surly they should have improved.

.....I miss playing her so much, but MY GOD she is SO FREAKING technical and complicated.....when I see EOE's videos of her combos and other shenanigans.....it makes me wonder......why did I even try to play this damn character? Leagues of tech that she has and some are still being discovered, 2 potential infinities, a float mechanic meaning she can attack while holding her projectile, it's....its just too much for someone like me.

But I will always love that awesome stock face ......the beautiful princess who kicks butt......with her own butt

For one, I think all I can say for now about her is that she has an advantage in a match against C. Falcon.

 

[KamikazePotato]

Ike players tend to get a bit annoyed because the characters consistently receives very little respect regardless of results, while other characters in the same series get more respect despite doing as well for a shorter time (Marth) or not backing up their claims (Corrin). Japan isn't helping matters either.

The Palutena and Duck Hunt fanbases would be the same way if they were bigger and had more of a voice. With some characters people just flat-out ignore results.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ike players tend to get a bit annoyed because the characters consistently receives very little respect regardless of results, while other characters in the same series get more respect despite doing as well for a shorter time (Marth) or not backing up their claims (Corrin). Japan isn't helping matters either.

The Palutena and Duck Hunt fanbases would be the same way if they were bigger and had more of a voice. With some characters people just flat-out ignore results.

Believe me, if she was capable of crying, she would. Most Wii Fit players have already quietly accepted that no one will ever take the character seriously. Mid-mid tier at worst and low-high tier at best with results to back it up and this character is still regularly on people's bottom 10 placements. As the saying goes, I know that feel, bro. is in a similar boat but at least people somewhat respect the character thanks to Ranai.

 

[C0rvus]

Wii Fit is nowhere near high tier. She has too many -1's and -2's to be there. Idk who is putting her in bottom 10 but whatever.