Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Das Koopa]

Avalon U-IV (June 4th) (Netherlands) (128 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: S1-14
2nd: iStudying ,
3rd: Long0uw ,
4th: Meru
5th: Yikarur ,
5th: Wusi
7th: Ho , ,
7th: Badr
9th: PS~Broberto
9th: Antireflex
9th: Cat
9th: Patrino
13th: Gregs
13th: RiVer
13th: WRECK IT MUNDO
13th: Eddy

I'll allow Yikarur correct any mistakes or detail secondaries.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Cloud or Diddy imo

 

[jespoke]

Since i hang around here so much lately, i keep getting surprised at how many people i meet in other threads/reddit who rate Cloud way below the top. The voting for the community tier list specifically made me notice it, as every time we got him voted back into top tier, downvotes would start being cast again.

 

[Ninety]

Interesting that Bayonettas are still placing relatively high. How have Salem and Pink Fresh been doing since 1.1.6?

 

[Y2Kay]

Two Greninja's in top 16? Not bad . . . .

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why do we keep putting Diddy above Cloud? Can anyone explain?



Neither of the reasons listed (Kirby is easy to counter pick and no one seriously plays Kirby) has anything to do with how bad of a matchup he is for WFT...

Because I talked about them in another post: Kirby's short so attacks are hard to hit, he can copy sun salutation, he can duck under a good portion of Wii Fit's attacks, and he's one of the few characters that can genuinely challenge Wii Fit off stage. Still, the Kirby/Wii Fit issue is easily solved by having a counterpick which, given the current state of the metagame, is pretty much becoming the standard aside from a handful of characters and a majority of Wii Fit players agree that the Kirby match up is the only one where it's essential to have one. This is hardly a damning thing either given it's pretty much the same case for a lot of other good characters too like Ness, DK, and arguably even Mario (for and ).

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

@Meru. Excellent job, Peach is so close to actually winnings major or whatever you call them.

I'm liking the peach results, she seems to place so highly most of the time whenever there is one.

So nice job again, btw who did you lose to and do you, YOURSELF, think Peach will start coming out on top in tournaments soon?

 

[Mario766]

Ho played Sheik, I don't remember a Bayo being played but I could be wrong.

 

[adom4]

Ho played Sheik, I don't remember a Bayo being played but I could be wrong.

He pulled out Bayo once against Longouw, dunno if he pulled her in other games.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Kind of surprised nobody seriously discusses Villager anymore, given how he was one of the few characters that broke even with pre patch Sheik, Diddy, and ZSS. Sure, Ranai carried the character in a lot of ways but compare the results that other
"carried" characters like Esam's Pikachu and Istudying's Greninja were getting. I feel like these are more of a testament of what the character is capable of than just Ranai's talent.

 

[Das Koopa]

I made a 10-region map for the U.S so I can be consistent in what areas I name. I've noticed I swing between city names and region names, and I think I'll just try to be consistent about it and create a by-region list, which could also allow for some direct region comparisons in data. Hence, I tried to base regions on player/regional overlap.

Spoiler

Mapchart didn't have a stripe option for overlaps, but:

-Arizona overlaps with West Coast
-Colorado overlaps with Rocky Mountains
-Most southern states are tentatively placed because Texas appears to be the only inland southern state with an active Smash scene
-Does Alaska have an active scene?
-Nevada's scene has consistent overlap with SoCal (See: FOW, Ven Pollo, etc. attending SoCal regionals)
-Colorado appears to have overlap with the Southwest, and the rockies more or less appear to lack a scene at all. Based on Sate Fe Fiesta's entrants (Colorado has nearly as many as Texas)
-MD-VA-DC-WV is added together but WV is tentatively placed
-If I redo this I may just merge the Northeast with Tristate, idk
-There are a lot of states that just get lumped into greater regions due to lack of notable players/big scenes.

this isn't a huge deal but I was bored and I think a consistent region map would be nice, especially for data comparisons n' the like

 

[Y2Kay]

The South does have a pretty active scene. Georgia, Texas, and Florida are the main powerhouses, but the other states (Like Tennessee represent!) have some good players as well. However, Texas and Florida like to think they're their own region . . . which I disagree with but whatever. So the south east looks kinda weak.

I'd like to humbly request that the South East is renamed the Dirty South

 

[juddy96]

-Does Alaska have an active scene?

You couldn't have timed that better. https://smash.gg/tournament/battle-at-the-last-frontier-2/brackets/11781/12860

 

[Mario766]

That's because Georgia/Texas and Florida are the main scenes. Louisiana goes to Texas, MS has legit nothing, Tennessee goes to Georgia, and Alabama goes to FL/Georgia tournaments.

 

[jespoke]

Badr's 1.1.6 Bayonetta was interesting to see. She definitely still has combos and ways to play creatively, but Badr relied heavily on Witch Time and got it baited out and punished a lot, especially in the last game against Wusi

 

[wedl!!]

Just saying, Conneticut is in New England.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Texas considers itself its own region because it's a huge state.

What takes someone to get from PA to NY is about the same it takes someone to get to El Paso from Gavelston.

 

[Y2Kay]

That's because Georgia/Texas and Florida are the main scenes. Louisiana goes to Texas, MS has legit nothing, Tennessee goes to Georgia, and Alabama goes to FL/Georgia tournaments.

Hey now, Tennessee can hold its own some what. We occasionally hold our own big tournies like KiT and WTFox 2 and the biweekly ORLs attract a lot of players inside and outside the state.

The populations around Texas, Florida and Atlanta are more dense than say, Alabama and Missippi. I don't think the difference is so huge that we have to cut the south up into so many parts. That's just me though.

I think cutting Texas and the surrounding states into its own region is fine though.

 

[HoSmash4]

I used @Das Koopa

Related to my results, killing really late sucks but I guess it is part of her design. I don't blame my character because it's my job to use her tools in the best way possible to win, and I didn't use them to its fullest potential.

 

[Das Koopa]

Just saying, Conneticut is in New England.

"Tristate" typically includes Connecticut

It's why I might just merge tristate/NE as "Atlantic Northeast" because it's a mess to try and separate it just for Maine/VT/NH, since anybody in those states would likely drive to a tourney in Mass. or Tristate.

 

[wedl!!]

Connecticut is geographically within New England.

They're even on the NE PR. >,<

 

[Mario766]

CT goes to NE tournaments, not Tri-State FYI.

It isn't really considered Tri-State.

 

[teddystalin]

"Tristate" typically includes Connecticut

It's why I might just merge tristate/NE as "Atlantic Northeast" because it's a mess to try and separate it just for Maine/VT/NH, since anybody in those states would likely drive to a tourney in Mass. or Tristate.

I always thought the third state was traditionally PA, because they all meet at one point.

To further confuse things, the closest scene to a lot of people in northern NE is in Montreal instead of NY or MA.

 

[Goombo]

Did this Mexican Falcon player at the Mexico Saga Crew Battle just really counterpick Void to Smashville and got threestocked in process? This are the times I'm really losing faith in humanity.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Das Koopa can ya link to the part where commentators are complaining about Yika's mii brawler.

 

[juddy96]

TGL Monthly 6 results (85 entrants) with a ton of upsets http://challonge.com/tgl6smash4singles

1) Dabuz
2) Xaltis
3) NickRiddle
4) True Blue
5) Seibrik
5) WormyNugget (Josh)
7) MuteAce
7) Rollo
9) Prince Ramen
9) Purple Guy
9) Dath
9) Riot
13) D2da
13) Kazu
13) Saj
13) DiZ

 

[Yikarur]

Das Koopa

Eddy played CF as well (Greninja first) and I think Ho went Sheik only except for a game that didn't matter.
istudy used cloud as well but I don't know if he used Cloud in any of his winning sets.

 

[Das Koopa]

Stroderp up a game on ZeRo apparently

Edit: Nevermind it was just a 2-1 ZeRo's favor. Good stuff to Stroderp for taking a game anyway

 

[Ooga Booga]

Kind of surprised nobody seriously discusses Villager anymore, given how he was one of the few characters that broke even with pre patch Sheik, Diddy, and ZSS. Sure, Ranai carried the character in a lot of ways but compare the results that other
"carried" characters like Esam's Pikachu and Istudying's Greninja were getting. I feel like these are more of a testament of what the character is capable of than just Ranai's talent.

One of Villagers worst matchup was pre patch sheik and he probably slightly lost to zss

 

[Das Koopa]

NorCal G&W KOSSismoss 2-1s VoiD

 

[jespoke]

Das Koopa

Eddy played CF as well (Greninja first) and I think Ho went Sheik only except for a game that didn't matter.
istudy used cloud as well but I don't know if he used Cloud in any of his winning sets.

From what i saw (Stream from winners round 4 onward) iStudying's Cloud was only used against S1 in game 2 of winners finals, a set he lost.

Ho went Bayo in his last set, but you can take his own word for that rather than mine, earlier on this page

 

[Djent]

Kossismoss beat VoiD off-stream.

Paging Kofu

 

[teddystalin]

Meanwhile, at Midwest Mayhem, Tyroy's sends ESAM to losers 2-0.

 

[Y2Kay]

Kossismoss beat VoiD off-stream.

Paging Kofu

apparently someone stepped on Void's hand during that Donald Trump pinata thing and it's been bothering him but we take those.

Meanwhile, at Midwest Mayhem, Tyroy's sends ESAM to losers 2-0.

But pika wins 55:45


EDIT: Void is out at 17th lost to a

 

[Das Koopa]

Aavark 2-1 VoiD, VoiD out at 17th

kek

 

[Radical Larry]

Avalon U-IV (June 4th) (Netherlands) (128 Entrants) (Category 1)
1st: S1-14
2nd: iStudying ,
3rd: Long0uw ,
4th: Meru
5th: Yikarur ,
5th: Wusi
7th: Ho , ,
7th: Badr
9th: PS~Broberto
9th: Antireflex
9th: Cat <====Totally isn't ignored again.
9th: Patrino
13th: Gregs
13th: RiVer
13th: WRECK IT MUNDO
13th: Eddy

I'll allow Yikarur correct any mistakes or detail secondaries.

I feel like if we take the time to re-analyze, study and re-evaluate all of what Link is, we can find out how a Link player is making it in majors and other tournaments. Let's stop ignoring the fact that a supposed Low Tier is even in a top 16 in a major and start evaluating him and come to a new conclusion. Maybe we can find out how he can get into it and research into the possibility of being upper middle tier or lower high tier?

 

[Piipp]

Hey now, Tennessee can hold its own some what. We occasionally hold our own big tournies like KiT and WTFox 2 and the biweekly ORLs attract a lot of players inside and outside the state.

The populations around Texas, Florida and Atlanta are more dense than say, Alabama and Missippi. I don't think the difference is so huge that we have to cut the south up into so many parts. That's just me though.

I think cutting Texas and the surrounding states into its own region is fine though.

Well really the only scene we could hold our own against is Texas. Georgia and Florida would body us.

Plus with Brawlman leaving for a little bit the only one that would be able to do anything against some of their better players would be Jester. And I don't even think he'd do that great.

 

[FeelMeUp]

I feel like if we take the time to re-analyze, study and re-evaluate all of what Link is, we can find out how a Link player is making it in majors and other tournaments. Let's stop ignoring the fact that a supposed Low Tier is even in a top 16 in a major and start evaluating him and come to a new conclusion. Maybe we can find out how he can get into it and research into the possibility of being upper middle tier or lower high tier?

Please be considerate and save the sanity of every person on this thread by not mentioning Link multiple times a day.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I feel like if we take the time to re-analyze, study and re-evaluate all of what Link is, we can find out how a Link player is making it in majors and other tournaments. Let's stop ignoring the fact that a supposed Low Tier is even in a top 16 in a major and start evaluating him and come to a new conclusion. Maybe we can find out how he can get into it and research into the possibility of being upper middle tier or lower high tier?

Not to rain on your parade but this isn't that unusual in this game. If this was Melee or Brawl, a low tier ranking would definitely be a headline maker but with this game, hardly anyone in the cast is a total bust competitively. are all characters that regularly cause upsets despite their low or even bottom tier monikers. may be flawed but he's no . This might be a small exaggeration but the low/bottom tier characters in this game have better overall match up spreads than most of the mid tiers in Melee and especially Brawl.

 

[Kofu]

NorCal G&W KOSSismoss 2-1s VoiD

Kossismoss beat VoiD off-stream.

Paging Kofu

When you tagged me I assumed it was a very belated response to my comment that you called Game & Watch "good" or that a Game & Watch had done something notable. I'm glad it was the latter.

From what I know Game & Watch loses to Sheik primarily because she can camp with needles and generally keep him in a bad position with her frame data. The KOing aspect may honestly fall in Game & Watch's favor now after Sheik's nerfs and both characters are difficult to edgeguard. If VoiD had a hand injury that probably had some impact. Additionally, from what I know of VoiD he's a pretty aggressive player which doesn't work too well against Game & Watch.

Too bad the matches weren't streamed, I would have loved to see them.