Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Cereal Bawks]

Results-wise, Marth will probably surpass Ike at some point just based on the fact that he's more popular, so he'll have more rep.

 

[HeavyLobster]

i feel like we need a list of characters that are mid-high-top tier in theory but dont actually have rep.
corrin, charizard, pits, etc are all on here

What theory has Zard as an average or better character? At best his theory has him scraping the bottom of mid tier. He still is pretty lacking in terms of safe pokes and still is very juggle prone. He's a pretty mobile heavy but doesn't really have good approach tools.

 

[Charoite]

Corrin has better results in japan that the other fire emblem character, this was the result of Umebura 23, the same tournament that kamemushi won, YOC got 7th solo main corrin.
1st Kameme//Kamemushi

2nd Rain
3rd DNG|Nietono
4th Yuzu
5th Kie
5th FILIP
7th Raito
7th YOC

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

http://panda.gg/articles/news/gaming/43/panda-global-rankings-10-1

Panda global finally posted its top 10 players!

 

[Hero_2_All]

Ness is another one. Not a common high tier, but still a high tier currently. And being a good option against Cloud and Mewtwo is pretty major like you said. Don't know about Ryu, I ain't going to pretend I'm good at figuring out who does and doesn't work well against him, lol.

Ike's had on and off good results since at least MLG (where Ryo got top 8). The "on and off" factor is annoying/causes Ike to fall off of the radar at times, somebody already posted our johns for that issue. But considering Ike can still place top 8/just outside top 8 at majors like GOML and MLG despite those johns is pretty telling.

Currently its Ike > Marth > Corrin > (Lucina + Robin) > Roy. I'm not super confident in what Lucina can and can't do so I'm a bit fuzzy on her placement overall. Robin is most likely above her but there's some fudge factor there. Marth is really close to Ike at this point. He's making a lot of secondary appearances (more than Corrin), and his solo mains are starting to get there.

PK Gaming Ike's top tier spread outside of Diddy/Sheik (Maybe Fox as well, though that MU is more volatile to the extreme than anything. Both characters can kill each other within about 30 seconds of the match starting) is all within the 45-55 to 55-45 range, with Sonic being an arguable 6-4. Its not amazing to be sure, takes a lot of effort, but its something that's workable for placing well at majors. Hence MLG and GOML results. Those Diddy/Sheik issues hurt for sure, but being able to take on Cloud, ZSS, Sonic, Rosalina all fairly comfortably is fairly large as well.

I think what's more telling, is that despite that high tier MU range, Ike doesn't qualify for high tier with the current standards. If Ike doesn't make it, how on earth is Corrin supposed to qualify with a MU spread at that level really close to Ike's, but nowhere near the same level of important results?

Hero_2_All Corrin's regional results are not at a high tier level. They fit perfectly into the mid tier range of "one or two regions have a good one they have to deal with". You also can't get tossed into high tier based on theory. You need results to back it up. Corrin doesn't have it, and he's not building any steam.

No results, no high tier. No "new character" johns.

One or two.....no, allot of the recent state / regional pr's have had Corrins in them ( even though half them haven't been updated post corrin, half are around current, look in the smash boards PR data). Texas has both cosmos and hakii dominating, and for a little thing the most recent Umebura had one topping. Honestly show me a ratio of player base size to regional results of falcon vs Corrin in the last two months that has falcon perform a whole tier ahead (keep in mind based off this sites usage statistics Corrin is only just above duck hunt in usage). Also new character johns.... really?

 

[Jams.]

Ike just seems to have fallen off the flavour of the month train because of a current slump in results (aside from GOML recently), which kind of happens to a lot of characters. I think he'll eventually make a comeback and more people will consider him a top 20 or maybe even top 15 threat again once his top players get through this current slump. His tools are fundamentally solid, and he really has everything a high tier needs (good spacing tools, throw combos, good CQC, not terrible recovery); he also received noticeable buffs in the same patch Marth did.

Also, as the meta progresses, I really feel like Ness' poor mobility (not aerial weaving ability, stuff like run speed) will become more of an issue. He's just too slow to punish many characters resetting to neutral. This was painfully apparent during FOW vs Saiki, when it became clear that Ness had zero answers to full length Bouncing Fish, which gave Saiki so many free neutral resets throughout their set. His true combo game starts to fall apart at mid percents, and he can't consistently rack damage if his opponent can reset to neutral for free after he gets one hit. I realize there are only a handful of characters that can do this (Sheik, Diddy, ZSS, and maybe Bayo, Pikachu, and Mewtwo), but all of them are relevant characters and I foresee all of them starting to perform better versus Ness as they minimize their disadvantage states versus him.

 

[Djent]

Corrin does have results, but most come from people who have seen success with other "borderline" characters. Earth is using more Pit again to similar effect, Ryuga did fine with Ike, and Cosmos/ESAM used Pika please don't kill me for mentioning this. While I don't normally condone reasoning about a character's power level from within-player performance, the fact that we see this happening with several people does give me pause. And this is coming from someone who thought (thinks?) Corrin looks good on paper.

EDIT:

Corrin has better results in japan that the other fire emblem character, this was the result of Umebura 23, the same tournament that kamemushi won, YOC got 7th solo main corrin.

YOC made 7th by beating Rain's Cloud, a MU we already know Corrin does OK in. He also has some mediocre finishes. That being said, his success here does contradict my other observation about borderline character users using Corrin (YOC was formerly a Sonic main).

 

[Macedonian]

I think Ike I being over-estimated a fair bit. We still loose slightly to fox, sheik, zss, Mario, and diddy. I personally think we loose to cloud greninja and possibly villager as well.

IMO Marth will rise above Ike, more rep usually means a charachter deserves more rep
Cause they are more rewarding. Also Marths recovery is harder to mess with then Ike's.

 

[PK Gaming]

PK Gaming Ike's top tier spread outside of Diddy/Sheik (Maybe Fox as well, though that MU is more volatile to the extreme than anything. Both characters can kill each other within about 30 seconds of the match starting) is all within the 45-55 to 55-45 range, with Sonic being an arguable 6-4. Its not amazing to be sure, takes a lot of effort, but its something that's workable for placing well at majors. Hence MLG and GOML results. Those Diddy/Sheik issues hurt for sure, but being able to take on Cloud, ZSS, Sonic, Rosalina all fairly comfortably is fairly large as well.

I think what's more telling, is that despite that high tier MU range, Ike doesn't qualify for high tier with the current standards. If Ike doesn't make it, how on earth is Corrin supposed to qualify with a MU spread at that level really close to Ike's, but nowhere near the same level of important results?

Okay yeah, that matchup spread doesn't seem that different from Corrin. I still think Corrin high level placings that aren't too far behind Ike (moreso in Japan where hers are actually better), but i'll concede that when it comes to theory and results, Ike is better.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Just in terms of pure actual gameplan Ike is more rewarded then Corrin while Marth has better footsies and mobility.

Like....I don't get fam. Help me to understand.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I think Ike I being over-estimated a fair bit. We still loose slightly to fox, sheik, zss, Mario, and diddy. I personally think we loose to cloud greninja and possibly villager as well.

IMO Marth will rise above Ike, more rep usually means a charachter deserves more rep
Cause they are more rewarding. Also Marths recovery is harder to mess with then Ike's.

45-55 is "losing slightly". Sheik and Diddy are 40-60, the rest you mentioned are 45-55 at worst with the "possibly worse but who really knows its mad volatile" exception of Fox. Greninja and Villager you could say 45-55, 50-50, or 55-45 and be equally valid in your opinion. Not enough top level Greninjas/Villagers around where the top level Ikes are.

Marth could end up above Ike, he's in a pretty good spot now. Time will tell though, which is why I said he's really close to Ike atm.

 

[Illuminose]

Ike has had mediocre results for a long time...san getting 9th at GOML is pretty much Ike's best result in months. Ryo got washed at Genesis and doesn't have recent impressive results (not doing as well as in the past), Ryuga dropped Ike and simultaneously hasn't even been to a regional in months, and san has only recently come out...decent results but nothing spectacular going on. Rango hasn't travelled outside his region and performed very poorly at Paradigm Shift. Ike has issues with most top tier characters, with literally one even top tier matchup and losing to some degree every single other top tier matchup. Calling Ike's Fox or ZSS matchup 45-55 is too optimistic. Heck, calling Diddy or Sheik 40-60 is too optimistic. Ike is not a high tier, heck he's not even one of the better mid tiers. He has a BAD matchup spread and most of his 'results' are isolated performances from last year. Ryo bustered at Fresh Saga and got 65th at Genesis, almost no "good result" since Big House and not even close to solo maining Ike anymore (uses a significant amount of Corrin/Roy). Ryuga dropped the character. Rango got destroyed at Paradigm Shift. There is san who had good performances at EGLX and GOML, but nothing groundbreaking considering that his 'big wins' are Holy and PikaPika... Ike has been trending down for many months at this point.

Corrin doesn't have tons of relevant recent results, similar to Ike--main ones being YOC top 8 at Umebura 23 and Earth 4th at Sumabato 8. There's also the domination of Cosmos and Hakii in Texas (they haven't traveled out-of-region yet). Ryuga hasn't been to so much as a regional outside his 2nd placing at Landlocked, a stacked af tournament. The character is somewhat unproven on the national stage (bc Corrins don't go!) but clearly has certain results and wins that indicate potential. His matchup spread is also much better, even with many top tiers and few matchups that one would even consider hard. Corrin has the frame data, the safety, the combos, and of course Side B. Ike is much more exploitable in ways that Corrin isn't, especially in the context of recovery. The theory is sound and the few results we have are promising. No **** Corrin is better than Ike who has bad theory and a significant downtrend in results. They aren't even in the same tier conversation.

Marth is also better than Ike, let's be real. Mr. E and Pugwest have better results than Ikes and the character is just more fundamentally solid. He has reliable, safe spacing options, really good mobility options, and some of the most potent edgeguarding in the game. Of course Marth still has flaws, but he makes a much better case than Ike for a high spot on the tier list.

 

[Hero_2_All]

Just in terms of pure actual gameplan Ike is more rewarded then Corrin while Marth has better footsies and mobility.

Like....I don't get fam. Help me to understand.

Maybe you will view this with bias as a corrin main here, but corrin looses to Marth in footsies due to mobility differences, but marth looses to corrin in dmg racking and ease of killing. Ike beats corrin in grab game, but corrin's superior frame data and also slightly better dmg racking kind win for Corrin. Ike does more per hit, but corrin coverts into combos of more moves, and for higher percents. One thing i'm seeing allot of is a lack of knowledge on how good corrin is at dealing dmg. Her true combo and juggle game are really good, and is one thing you see allot of the "good" corrins do. Tbh Corrin is a marriage between Ike and marth in base design with added flair, and a bigger focus on combos. She takes good and bad things from both characters. Marth's frame data/ f-air / grab game (one that combos well though), ike's d-tilt and mobility stats (was same pre patch then they differentiated it by making corrin 3% slower).

 

[ARISTOS]

Panda Global Rankings 10-1

http://panda.gg/articles/news/gaming/43/panda-global-rankings-10-1

It's the end.

10. ANTi
9. Ranai
8. VoiD
7. Larry Lurr
6. Ally
5. Abadango
4. Mr. R
3. Dabuz
2. Nairo
1. ZeRo

- We see for the first time; also the first time in awhile we see show up.
- Ranai had the largest X-Factor at +4, but I find it unlikely that he would continue to rise given his recent break from Smash 4

Final character listing

x8
x6
x5
x4
x3x3x3x3
x2x2x2x2


Old posts:
20-11: http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-396#post-21203703
30-21: http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-391#post-21198776
40-31: http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-382#post-21191970
50-41: http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-...ive-impressions.429826/page-371#post-21185597

Characters who didn't show up at all:

 

[Emblem Lord]

Maybe you will view this with bias as a corrin main here, but corrin looses to Marth in footsies due to mobility differences, but marth looses to corrin in dmg racking and ease of killing. Ike beats corrin in grab game, but corrin's superior frame data and also slightly better dmg racking kind win for Corrin. Ike does more per hit, but corrin coverts into combos of more moves, and for higher percents. One thing i'm seeing allot of is a lack of knowledge on how good corrin is at dealing dmg. Her true combo and juggle game are really good, and is one thing you see allot of the "good" corrins do. Tbh Corrin is a marriage between Ike and marth in base design with added flair, and a bigger focus on combos. She takes good and bad things from both characters. Marth's frame data/ f-air / grab game (one that combos well though), ike's d-tilt and mobility stats (was same pre patch then they differentiated it by making corrin 3% slower).

The buttons Corrin converts from are unsafe. Generally her pokes are less safe then Marth too.

To be honest I think she takes their flaws and has weaker variations of their pros.

Well on the ground she is less safe. But her Nair and Fair are pretty darn safe.

 

[Goombo]

May I ask, where the "Corrin does well against Cloud" comes from?

This matchup sounds absolutely awful in theory. Corrin is probably the single worst character in the game at gimping Cloud which matters a lot, there is no way of downplaying this; he doesn't have a range advantage outside of FSmash unless I'm completely wrong and I don't see what else could turn this matchup even remotely close to an even one.
Please enlighten me.

 

[Ninety]

Ike's only bad matchups are Diddy and Sheik

Forgive me, but I'm very skeptical of this claim. I thought Greninja mains' presumption of only 5 unfavorable matchups was lofty, but seriously? Out of 58 characters, Ike beats or goes even with 55 of them (dittos don't count)? I'd like to see some solid theory for that, because the results very much don't match up with it.

And honestly, put me down for the "Corrin is unproven" train. That is, it's too early to say he's overrated when he has no standout mains. I realize it's a chicken-and-egg situation here, but it's hard to say he's just not that good when he's so underrepresented.

 

[PK Gaming]

Just in terms of pure actual gameplan Ike is more rewarded then Corrin while Marth has better footsies and mobility.

Like....I don't get fam. Help me to understand.

I'm not as knowledgeable in Smash as you, but from one Fire Emblem bro to another

"I'll try"

The way I see it, Corrin is good at converting hits into high damage combos, and has good KO options. She also has a projectile that's kind of decent and a Side B that is admittedly overrated, but still nonetheless an extremely good tool in neutral. Though not as good as Marth, her footsie game is actually pretty good due to how godlike dash to shield speed in conjunction with her good SH, and excellent buttons like Nair/Fair.

We're long past the days where Corrin was considered "amazing", but I think she can keep up with either of them. If she's worse than Ike and Marth, it's not by much imo.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike has had mediocre results for a long time...san getting 9th at GOML is pretty much Ike's best result in months. Ryo got washed at Genesis and doesn't have recent impressive results (not doing as well as in the past), Ryuga dropped Ike and simultaneously hasn't even been to a regional in months, and san has only recently come out...decent results but nothing spectacular going on. Rango hasn't travelled outside his region and performed very poorly at Paradigm Shift. Ike has issues with most top tier characters, with literally one even top tier matchup and losing to some degree every single other top tier matchup. Calling Ike's Fox or ZSS matchup 45-55 is too optimistic. Heck, calling Diddy or Sheik 40-60 is too optimistic. Ike is not a high tier, heck he's not even one of the better mid tiers. He has a BAD matchup spread and most of his 'results' are isolated performances from last year. Ryo bustered at Fresh Saga and got 65th at Genesis, almost no "good result" since Big House and not even close to solo maining Ike anymore (uses a significant amount of Corrin/Roy). Ryuga dropped the character. Rango got destroyed at Paradigm Shift. There is san who had good performances at EGLX and GOML, but nothing groundbreaking considering that his 'big wins' are Holy and PikaPika... Ike has been trending down for many months at this point.

You're pretty far off base on a lot of things there.

1) Ryo has gone back to mostly pure Ike. Last two large tournament results he had (within the last month) were solo Ike with him in top 8. No Roy, no Corrin. They're both "pull out when bored" characters for him, not significant secondaries. Barely more important than his Ganondorf or Falcon or Palutena, lol. He's a FE fanboy in general, he likes using all of them. Unless you're going to try to tell me he's used a "significant" amount of Lucina as well because he's pulled her out more than once in the past.

2) Rango's not really a strong Ike so I don't know why he's getting mentioned. Very much a mid level player, just one that happens to have knocked off a few names before.

3) San just beat V115: Canada's strongest ZSS and one of the top ones in general. Its far from optimistic. Ryuga felt it was 45-55 before she got nerfed (and before Ike got more buffs). Its reality.

4) Sheik and Diddy being 40-60 is already reality. Sheik was 35-65 before she got nerfed. Void had lost to an Ike before, San/Ryuga had beaten other Sheiks. It was mad difficult but it was doable. And then she got nerfed, her losing that 50/50 was huge for Ike. I've watched Ikes on stream live up to 200% against Sheik now: she just can't close out his stocks quickly anymore. San also beat at least one Diddy on his way to 9th. The one that beat him was uh, Zero. I think 99.9% of players would lose to that regardless of their character choice. I already touched on Fox in my previous posts.

Ike ain't trending downwards at all. He's maintaining the same on/off pace he's had since patch 1.0.4.

 

[Djent]

Other than Abadango being too high and Ally too low (which is forgivable b/c the list was made a few weeks ago), that top 10 looks...pretty good. Color me pleasantly surprised.

 

[Hero_2_All]

The buttons Corrin converts from are unsafe. Generally her pokes are less safe then Marth too.

To be honest I think she takes their flaws and has weaker variations of their pros.

Well on the ground she is less safe. But her Nair and Fair are pretty darn safe.

Oh ya her tilts are less safe, but if you space d-tilt properly on shield there isn't really any out of shields minus item tosses and tether grabs that can punish Corrin consistanly. D tilt I believe is -18 on shield without shield drop, but the range and push back makes it very hard to punish. Honestly though, ike and marth are the gold standard of safe tilts, but corrin traded it in for combining tilts. Her N-air when properly spaced is nonpunishable its -7 without shield drop, but out of range of all quick enough OOS options. You can punish a tether grab attempt with d tilt which is frame 5.

 

[Nobie]

Aside from maybe Cloud, Corrin seems to be the go-to secondary these days. You just have tons of players picking up Corrin to shore up their bad matchups, and one might even argue that people are actually turning into Cloud mains, not Cloud secondaries.

As for why people might choose Corrin over Marth or Ike, I think it relates to this role as the secondary of choice. He seems to pop up when players need a character that just commands a field of death around them, where mobility isn't as necessary (Marth) but they also need a bit more safety (than Ike).

 

[KamikazePotato]

As far as Fire Emblem characters go:

Corrin: The one that gets hyped but never achieves anything

Marth: The one that people realized (post-buffs) was still very good even though their beloved short hop double fair never came back

Ike: The one with slightly-better results than the next best one (Marth) and is maybe probably the best of the bunch, but will still never be widely-played

Lucina: The one that will never be explored because Marth exists and people like tippers

Robin: The one that everyone agrees is pretty good, but every person who makes a MU list still says their character 55-45s him for some reason

Roy: Needs help

I'm pretty confident in Ike~Marth>=Corrin>=Robin>Roy. If I had to pick a #1 I give it to Ike but Marth is right on his heels. Both have been achieving great results lately and their theory is sound. Corrin is still strong, but she seems to function much better as a secondary counterpick than anything else. Robin is also good but he's just a bit undertuned compared to the others. He gets underrated as **** sometimes though. Not ranking Lucina as I think that she might actually be a fairly different character than Marth in terms of what their results spread ends up as, but we'll never know for sure.

 

[my_T]

That player ranking is stupid

Why would they factor in the notable victories a player has while completely ignoring character match-ups?

What really gets me is that ESAM pointed this out when talking about Ranai.

and what a coincidence...all but three (Ally, Larry, Aba) players out of that top 10 main or co-mained some of the most broken characters in the games life span

 

[Empyrean]

But her Nair and Fair are pretty darn safe.

Both also convert into great combos/juggles, with some potentially deadly followups (DFS, DL) at various percent windows, otherwise consistently dishing out good damage. Granted, her tilts are less safe than Marth's/Ike's, trading raw damage for speed and followup potential, so I wouldn't say they're vastly inferior versions. Then you have stuff like bair and Dragon lunge who don't necessarily convert into much but there's pretty much nothing most chars can do about them besides shielding even if they see it coming.

---

As much as I believe in Corrin, there really is nothing to justify high-tier in the present metagame, and even our theory has yet to be fleshed out beyond the basic, obvious stuff. It's up to us Corrin mains to get out there and put up a fight. also here's hoping esam eventually drops the rat in favor of corrin

 

[williamsga555]

It was brought up a bit ago, but general consensus on Dedede vs. Ryu is that it's close to even.

Hard for me personally to go into it too much, since I lack Ryu experience, but it's what both communities have seemed to agree on. In my mind we lose out, but that's almost 100% theorycraft talking. Results have supported the "roughly even" claim, as rare as the matchup is.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I don't think that match is even at all. Slightly Ryu's favor as Ryu negates Dedede's main pro(his weight) and dies to utilt lock. Don't get me wrong. I have had close games with Dedede's and it's a weird match, but other then ledge traps which Dedede is godlike at, I don't see how he actually shuts down what Ryu wants to do. Get in your ****, punish you badly and just overpower you with superior damage and frame data.

 

[Macedonian]

I could almost see it. DDD has a few multi its with disjointed to fight FA, is the hardest charachter to kill off the top, can walk out decently well. I would still net ryu wins just for having rediculously good conversions but I can see how DDD has some tools in that MU

 

[Emblem Lord]

Concept match. Old but relevant.

You can actually see I really only die when I mess up. Dedede gets punished hard when he is blocked. Ryu only gets hurt when Dedede makes a good read or creates a ledge trap situation.

And you see Dedede's weight is a non-factor for Ryu. He just doesnt care about how heavy someone is.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Forgive me, but I'm very skeptical of this claim. I thought Greninja mains' presumption of only 5 unfavorable matchups was lofty, but seriously? Out of 58 characters, Ike beats or goes even with 55 of them (dittos don't count)? I'd like to see some solid theory for that, because the results very much don't match up with it.

And honestly, put me down for the "Corrin is unproven" train. That is, it's too early to say he's overrated when he has no standout mains. I realize it's a chicken-and-egg situation here, but it's hard to say he's just not that good when he's so underrepresented.

"Bad" as in -2 or 40:60. He still loses to maybe like ~10 more characters, but they're manageable.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I'm sorry. What are people talking about with Trela lost to KD3? It had to have been King James (Midwest). If you dunno the MU, you will lose. I swear that penguin persists on not dying. After playing King James in 3 straight MMs with his Diddy and KD3, I can say he legit (FYI 2-1 my favor). Luckily, I had time and otherwise minimal experience before the KD3 matches. Doesn't prevent the fact that its stupid hard to know on the fly.

 

[san.]

Ike / Fire Emblem Discussion? Let me weigh in on a few things...

Corrin:
Along with counterplay, Corrin received these subtle nerfs to his mobility:

• Walk Speed: 1.2 -> 1.15
• Run Speed: 1.5 -> 1.45
• Air Speed: 1 -> .97

It doesn't seem like much, but run and air speeds were reduced to Ness levels, but with average aerial acceleration. Corrin's defensive ground movement is still awesome with superior dash->shield and average fox trot frames, but Corrin has less control over space than she would like. SideB also has worse frame data than once thought and recovery is merely average or slightly above.

Corrin still has a lot of great things, but once you play people, you have to put in quite a bit of work for the win. Corrin's still great, but he has to work more than what was previously thought, and that mobility can be used against him.

Marth vs. Ike:

Marth is probably better than Ike. He is just more well rounded vs. more of the cast. Ike has more volatile MUs, reminiscent of DK and Bowser due to the way they all punish and fish for grabs.

Ike's worst MUs are:
(uphill neutral) (uphill neutral)

We know it's Ike's disadvantage:
(zone breaking, strong kill confirms) (dangerous gimmicks, zone breaking) (zoner + grappler mixed) (out-rewards, good vs single hit characters)

Even Ike's worst MUs are "heavy MUs" where Ike can still obtain occasional confirms and good reward when the opportunity arises, since he can frontally combat most hitboxes directed at him if read.

Probably Ike's disadvantage:
Most zoners depending on how you look at it, (dangerous gimmicks) (out-rewards) (out-tanks and rewards), (zone breaking)

Ike is not good at lower levels of play and doesn't have as obvious a learning curve. Players will need to be consistent with some odd tech such as the footstool combos and dtilt->bair, combat walking autocancel quick draw, etc.

Ike with his fair buff a few months ago hasn't been explored much by the top Ike players (or only Ryo now) until more recently, and it was admittedly large to his metagame and viability.

Marth has way more rep at mid level, similar rep from high level mains, and way more rep from top players as secondaries (Ally, Leo, False, and Nick Riddle just off the top of my head)

Results that I know of (minus Japan):
Corrin: Cosmic Cosmos wins almost every Texas Challonge that I see, he's dominant over there and I think this is probably understated. You see him as secondaries all over. Ryo can pull out Corrin for more favorable/stable MUs and take sets off players like MVD, though his overall results solo haven't been able to match solo Ike just yet, and has been used much better as a secondary. Vapour in Canada upset Ontario's Blacktwins at EGLX. John #s and other tristate people use Corrin every now and then as well.

Marth: Mr. E, Pugwest, and farther down the line due to split usage, False. Mr. E took a set off Nairo and all 3 continue to beat high level players. I haven't seen much of Pugwest outside of his region, but he can take sets off Marss and beat everyone else in his region. Also took a set off PikaPika where Mr. E lost.

Ike:
Ryo still beats many good players, though he is getting upset more often. You can still see him take sets off M2k, K9, or Scatt here and there, though it's not a consistent win rate of course.
There are some Hidden Bosses that perform decently in tournaments, such as Yoh and Jage in Europe, or Justice in Oregon.
Waldo from NYC has started to get more top 8 placings in his region and took sets from players like Marss and Pugwest.
I've been to a few larger tournaments recently, being able to take sets off of Pugwest, V115, Chrim Foish, and Holy, though the latter 3 have beaten me in sets before as well.
Rango still has taken sets off players like 6WX and reflex, does OK in his region.

It's consistent with other mid-tier characters, but Ike's average rep is still very low. Ryo is Ike's only top player rep right now with Ryuga gone and the rest below him getting decent/improving results.

 

[Illusion.]

I'm sorry. What are people talking about with Trela lost to KD3? It had to have been King James (Midwest).

Wasn't King James, it was Whiteout who beat him.

 

[C0rvus]

To add to the Marth discussion, False recently decided he's done with Sheik. He has played mostly Marth at recent locals, and he really seems to like the character. I think Marth will be considered his main in the future, if he isn't already. So that's 3 killer Marths on the East Coast. I can say from experience that the character is good, incredibly scary to deal with off stage, and very good at footsies. Can't comment much on Ike, because I have no real experience with him or against him. But he's clearly quite good himself. He's more like a heavy with a sword rather than a sword character with high weight.

Edit: san. May I ask what combat walking is? I'm an Ike noob and that's a term I don't recognize.

 

[Planty]

Corrin's regional results are not at a high tier level. They fit perfectly into the mid tier range of "one or two regions have a good one they have to deal with". You also can't get tossed into high tier based on theory. You need results to back it up. Corrin doesn't have it, and he's not building any steam.

No results, no high tier. No "new character" johns.

This form of thinking is quite odd. Results should not be viewed so one-dimensionally ( no results -> many results). Doing so excludes all possible variables, the major one in this case being that most people don't want to drop their main for Corrin, a new character. Results are a way of obtaining clarity on a character's viability, but they're hardly scientific like so many people on this thread believe they are.

Characters don't become better if they get better tournament results. They stay the same. No matter how many nationals a character wins, it remains identical. It's just perceptions of the character that change. If literally everyone picked up Dedede tomorrow, would he become a better character? Absolutely not. He would remain EXACTLY the same, just with better results and probably some new things used more, that always existed.

The insistence on results being the great and powerful determining factor to how good a character is can easily be interpreted as fallacy of the single causation or affirming a consequent. In fact, it probably is. Results are definitely a great guide to character viability, but there's just too many variables to make them as important as many believe them to be.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

C0rvus Something Ike had in Brawl that still works in SSB4 but not as well. When Ike uses Jab 2 he moves forwards a little bit. Its possible to have characters get hit by Jab 1 while they are in the air, have Jab 2 whiff, but then have Jab 1 hit them. Repeat.

It was absolutely brutal on Squirtle back in the day.

P Planty Results are used to back up theory. Theory gets you to a rough point on the tier list, but you need results to prove the theory correct. Tier lists are after all, windows of the current metagame. If you aren't getting results in the current metagame, you can't exactly be high tier. The current metagame does not care about future potential: it isn't happening then.

Likewise, a character suddenly getting better tournament results means that their mains have figured out something about the character. Something clicked, and that click should be accounted for as long as its not just a flash in the pan. Something as different as a style change in how to play the character can make an impact. Which impacts the current metagame which the tier list is supposed to reflect. The character would move up accordingly.

Results actually do matter quite a lot.

 

[san.]

To add to the Marth discussion, False recently decided he's done with Sheik. He has played mostly Marth at recent locals, and he really seems to like the character. I think Marth will be considered his main in the future, if he isn't already. So that's 3 killer Marths on the East Coast. I can say from experience that the character is good, incredibly scary to deal with off stage, and very good at footsies. Can't comment much on Ike, because I have no real experience with him or against him. But he's clearly quite good himself. He's more like a heavy with a sword rather than a sword character with high weight.

Edit: san. May I ask what combat walking is? I'm an Ike noob and that's a term I don't recognize.

This thing, a lot of characters have it. It's good when spacing to make jab a bit safer when whiffing or if they spot dodge or something.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

So I think Shulk is nowhere near Low Tier and is underrated.

 

[PK Gaming]

Tangentially related, but it's awesome how much more interesting and viable the FE characters have gotten over the course of the game's lifespan. I remember when "FE tier" was a thing and the characters were largely disappointing. The general good vibes towards them now is super refreshing, and I look forward to seeing how all of their metas develop.

We just need Roy to catch up.

 

[Airpoizon]

We just need Roy to catch up.

;-;