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Yet its still the best out of the swordies outside of Meta Knight. Rest got no range horizontally, just maybe a stall and a quick straight up. Ike at least has a shot of flinging himself back on stage before the opponent can set up to edgeguard.
Not calling you out personally, as others have made this same argument not only with ness but with other characters of his likeness.'s kit means that even with some weak mobility and neutral tools, his sheer damage output and kill potential means he can just ~win~ games, even in situations where it looks like he should lose. That's why it's hard to rank him
This is your daily reminder that Pit exists.
Pit isn't considered a sword character by most.
I want to make sure that people know which character I mean 'cause Swordfighter can be used to refer to any Sword user. Also Swordspider sounds cooler.
what about swordsmii? it's actually shorter and people will know what you're talking about
Maybe you need to take a second, stop being facetious, and realize that raw frame data/shield safety is not everything that matters. Obviously frame data matters, but it's kind of ignorant to just say 'look at the numbers because they prove something'. This is a content-less post with meaningless information...come on, you can do better.
Probably still low tier. Her MU spread is alright just because she is in general an adaptable/flexible character. The exception is the Pika MU where there is no room for flexibility because about half of her moves can actually consistently hit Pikachu. The vast majority of her MUs fall within the -1, 0, +1 range. I think she has alright MUs (which definitely doesn't mean advantaged) against Cloud, Bayo, Mewtwo, Rosa, Ness, Luigi, Ike, and possibly Sheik, but notable disadvantages against Fox, MK, Sonic, Mario, Diddy, ZSS, and above all, Pikachu. Most midtiers have better top tier MU spreads.What are people's thoughts on
dat corrin frame data and shield advantage ... mmmm (gonna save this because hammer doesn't display basic shield advantage).
What do you count as viable? Viable to win a national? Solo-viable? Because a lot of characters past that have shown mad potential (Kirby's getting close to best Sheiks, Wii Fit getting high in nationals, etc). Viable and The Best are two different things.I'd say only Cloud, Ryu and Mega Man are truly viable out of those, probably Yoshi, Falcon and Lucario as well at least if your definition of viable is more lenient (it's hard to say because not every character has similar representation). Mii Brawler's source of reference is too tiny to say anything, while ROB, DK, Ike and Bowser get wrecked way too hard in some matchups to do anything without considerable help from a secondary. Wario was considered a high tier early on, but then he faded into completely obscurity barring Japan where seemingly any character can top 8 a national.
The term "viable" gets thrown around too freely, probably partially because it lacks any context. Viable in what? Locals, regionals, nationals, supermajors? There are probably less than 15 characters who can win a supermajor barring a godlike player plowing through with an obscure character and partially riding on the matchup inexperience of their opponents. Not to take too many dreams away from Mewtwo players, but Abadango at Pound 2016 probably fits this picture to an extent.
Getting top 8 at regionals is way easier in comparison, and probably half the cast or more can do this. Yet, is there an aspiring competitive player with the fire burning in them whose ultimate aim is a top 8 at a regional? A viable character should be one that can win, not almost win but then die.
Actually viable is probably more like:
Large pool of "who the hell knows":
The main difference is that the characters in the upper category have actually shown stuff whereas the lower ones haven't, and most of them probably never will considering they've already had pretty long for that (1.1.5 or just sudden attention to a specific sleeper character could still potentially create something though). and in case anyone is wondering, mega man can't be ignored because kamemushi
Villager and Pikachu had a lot of hype at one point due to ESAM and Ranai doing very well, while Bayonetta is a ??? but probably still at least decent, maybe even viable. The likes of Peach, Greninja and Corrin have a lot to show before they should even be considered in my opinion, meanwhileEmblem Lord has explained well why the Pits aren't that good, and to be fair, someone could probably whip one up for most of these.
Considering Ness' hype and success and then gradual but clear decline, it paints a good picture of how hard it is to actually win large things even in Smash 4. If I had to pick which character of the lower character pool had the strongest case to be in the upper one, I'd say aeiou
Regardless, there are 6 characters who can barely be called heavy, unless you really want to make a clear distinction between superheavy and heavy in which case it becomes a bit more plausible. Perhaps that's decent, but the "fatty" design of being an actual heavy is completely missing and seems to be pretty much doomed.
I think this isn't a pessimistic view but a realistic one. Interesting to see what happens though.
Also, Ike's recovery is ****ing terrible and it ruins the character
Agree with this. Those three characters are just so reliable because not only are their matchups pretty solid across the board, but their gameplan rarely has to change between matchups.
Raw frame data and shield safety is A LOT of Smash 4.
Roy.
Roy has mobility, but has range issues.
Learning how to play patient probably. Plenty of players don't know how to do that.
Why, exactly? Doesn't help that we stopped calling the halves of his bow "blades" because that's a completely different weapon class in KIU and we settled on swords...
According to most people the last half year or so,
V115 is overrated in Smash 4 because of his Brawl prowess. He got outplaced by 2 other Canadian ZSS' at GOML, Constance and Exodia who I believe is actually Canada's best ZSS
Pika's frame data really isn't that crazy imo. It's solid, but his other numbers such as knockback values and his hit angles make it so he has no reliable kill confirms. His best poke is his dtilt which is a great button, but to get in that space reliably without getting counter poked himself...risky stuff me thinks.According to most people the last half year or so,
Are you trying to trigger ESAM
The examples aren't really responding to my point though. My post was merely a response to Emblem Lord's all-encompassing post that literally said 'look at frame data and you can see the tier gap' when it's actually much more complicated than that. If you could actually look at the data literally and determine power levels, Mario and Ryu would be top 5 in the game, except that they aren't or even contending for it. Mega Man would be gutter trash. Falcon would not be barely hanging on to high tier. Yoshi would be top tier. Doc would not be a low tier character.
Priority when involving aerials (ground vs air, air vs ground, air vs air) doesn't factor in damage, except against projectiles. Assuming both hitboxes are out, whoever has the most disjoint, wins. Pika has next to no disjoint, so he usually loses interactions with aerials. Meanwhile Pit's Fair and especially Uair don't lose to much of anything. You can beat out things like Cloud and Link's Dairs or Wizkick consistently with proper spacing even though every hit on Uair does 2%.
Uh, side B has a hitbox... And super armor and immunity to projectiles. Pit's side B in terms of recovery is a straight upgrade of Falcon's, and the vast majority of the time he's using that to recover.
