Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[LancerStaff]

Because this is Birthright!Corrin, where the general strategy is to run into the enemy and let them kill themselves trying to attack you.

On that note, am I the only one who thought that it was ironic the game where the MC was a tactician required no actual tactics?

 

[Trifroze]

You should add Mewtwo to that list.

Mewtwo's small room for error can cause you to lose MU's you shouldn't, and his raw power allows him to tackle any character in the cast effectively.

But Mewtwo's power is consistent, like Bayonetta's or ZSS' for example, it's a part of every match for them that their opponent should expect to be hit by because they have the neutrals to pull it off. Perhaps Ryu is within this category too (although he's much more likely to benefit from rage than those three which adds to the variation). DK and Bowser have horrible disadvantages and pretty bad neutrals, while Lucario lives and dies by trying to survive at high percents when the gameplay is at its riskiest.

 

[Ninety]

Because this is Birthright!Corrin, where the general strategy is to run into the enemy and let them kill themselves trying to attack you.

I dunno man, that sounds more like Robin. Corrin at least had kind of a pretense of not soloing his game with his hands tied behind his back.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What makes his better than Wario's? Range? Cuz I think Chomp is the best, but I suppose the distinction matters very little.

Wario's Chomp isn't actually that good. It has the same 'issue' it had in Brawl - you don't need to cover that one specific move in order to adequately deal with it. Just use the same general, anti-aerial based approach that you'd use against Wario anyways and Chomp becomes almost a non-issue. There's a relatively easy rule of thumb: if a move beats Wario's dair head on, it will also beat Chomp [and nair for that matter]. Typically these moves are quick and safe utilts, nairs, uairs or sometimes bairs. Neither Shield nor Spotdodge are even part of that equation in the first place but these are the only things Chomp is useful against.

Yoshi's neutral B provides good frontal coverage in the air with decent range and start-up time, something no other of his move can provide to the same extent. It can be reversed with very little lag and can be used to grab opponents that Yoshi is facing away from. A character like Yoshi who's highly mobile, flexible and has a good projectile benefits a lot from a command grab, especially one with such good properties [good range, little ending lag, useful for non-grabbing purposes, ...]

 

[sedrf]

Games 2 and 3 of pink fresh and xzax was released

 

[Yikarur]

*frantically thinks of something to discuss other than bayonetta, greninja, the next hypothetical patch, character balance circlejerking, or pokemon sun & moon*

Yoshi. He's starting to get results here and there which I think is fair enough to at least warrant some smashboards talk. Thoughts on the character? I saw Yikarur do some pretty scary stuff with yoshi in a set against some zss two weeks ago on twitch. He seems like he has some solid tools but has trouble killing, oh and he's pretty damn heavy.

Yoshi is a good character. He is just inconsistent, because he doesn't have a throw-out neutral killmove like ZSS Bair for example.

I watched Yikarur obliterate a decent Bayo (Jezo) in person at Albion. It was almost a double 3-stock iirc. If you read this, do you think Yoshi copes well in the matchup, and if so, what about it is partcularly good for Yoshi? Not to draw conclusions off one set of course, but I know Jezo is pretty good first-hand; he wins most monthlies in Portsmouth somewhat emphatically and finished 25th last weekend. He does know the Yoshi MU as well.

I lost to two Bayonettas I would say pretty convincingly. My problem is that I use pretty crazy SDI and for some reason Yoshis attributes make him die very very early if you SDI out of witch twist, even if she doesn't have full rage.
And Witch Twist just beats everything + Yoshis Grab is garbage and you want to grab Bayo as much as possible. I kinda understand why Dio (japanese Yoshi) put Bayonetta as -3. Witch Twist's hitbox just overpowered.

s!"

Raptor, who has better results than most Yoshi players, is more optimistic about the character than the average Yoshi player.
Yikarur and The Wall who arguably have even better results are even more optimistic about the character thab Raptor is.

Coincidence? Unlikely, just another example that shows how results trump theory when it comes down to it.

My results are inconsistent af. It's very hard to always stay on point with Yoshi :/ and it's hard to compare any US Yoshi results with EU Yoshi results.

You cant read too much into that as Yikarur got double elim'd by Bayos (Me and SevereCalamari)

I think Yoshi does decentlish vs Bayo though. Eggs are a nuisance but having 0 grab grab is a bit of a problem outside of neutral-b being good vs bayo

I wanted to play your sheik so badly (

Oh man Yoshi discussion, though tbh I'm too tired to get into it too much.

I honestly think Yika's Brawler might be better than Yoshi just a bit though, let's not forget he has that as a secondary.

I use 90% Yoshi and 10% Brawler in tournaments. And my Yoshi is better by a great margin.

Raptor has on and off days, even a time where he almost dropped Yoshi to play cloud because of cloud.

I think everyone was at that at some point x)

Wall there's not really much wrong with him, confident albeit an ego and he gets decent results that matches pretty much

To be fair, he lives in a fairly weak region. (Jband told me about his region being very weak, so no idea if thats true but from watching videos it seems likely)

Now it's Bayonetta kinda kicking us down, think Yika and one other Yoshi at Albion got double elim by Bayo?

Me and Pidgey got doubled eliminated by Bayo.

 

[Megamang]

Not doubting you, but what makes fair not a 'throw out kill move'? Its pretty damn powerful, and seems to confirm into uair at a pretty decent range. And even if you can airdodge, Yoshi is faster than you in the air by default... I guess the fact it works with a chase like that makes it inconsistent? its easy to make fair trade after all.

 

[PK Gaming]

A long while back, someone brought up the idea that Marth is purposely designed to play like a Fire Emblem game, where you have to be careful with how you advance, and you have to lure opponents into your range without overextending yourself.

I wonder if Marth's generally bad dash into shields are meant to reflect this.

As for why Corrin has a much shorter one, ???

Well if we're talking about characters relative to their source game, Corrin was essentially a super unit who could do pretty much anything, haha. Also fun fact, Omega Yato makes this incredibly satisfying SMASH sound when it hits someone, and i'm incredibly disappointed that wasn't carried over to Smash Bros.

On that note, am I the only one who thought that it was ironic the game where the MC was a tactician required no actual tactics?

What about Conquest and (occasionally) Revelations? Conquest on Lunatic is arguably the most difficult FE game in the franchise, and it required plenty of tactics.

 

[Jaguar360]

Not doubting you, but what makes fair not a 'throw out kill move'? Its pretty damn powerful, and seems to confirm into uair at a pretty decent range. And even if you can airdodge, Yoshi is faster than you in the air by default... I guess the fact it works with a chase like that makes it inconsistent? its easy to make fair trade after all.

F-air extends Yoshi's hurtbox, isn't particularly fast and you have to space it pretty well in order for it to be safe on shield. Plus the f-air to u-air can be teched. Great move, but it's not really that comparable to ZSS's bair or Captain Falcon's B-air as a move that Yoshi needs.

 

[Vyrnx]

My opinion changed a lot on Yoshi when I read someone say that he was a character designed solely on making advantageous trades with his high damage, fast moves. If the Yoshi player aims to make as many trades as possible throughout the match, then eventually the Yoshi player will be in the lead and the other player will be left wondering what happened.

This is why early on some people thought Yoshi beat Sheik or at least went even. Later on opinion changed, but I wonder if people don't underestimate that aspect of Yoshi. He doesn't necessarily center around playing a traditional neutral and winning, more around making trades, but that's not to say he has a poor neutral.

His moves don't, "flow," particularly well, but I sort of doubt how much this really matters. He seems like he relies on hit and run strategies and a great disadvantage state more than anything. The, "hit," is just a strong damaging hit, potentially through a trade, and the, "run," is more of a lack of followups off of the hit because that's the nature of Yoshi's moveset. But when Yoshi lands a hit, I don't know that he necessarily needs followups, considering the damage on his moves and the fact that his moves knock the opponent away so that they won't immediately threaten him again.

It's not easy for the opponent to chase Yoshi. With his mobility and decent anti approach moves like eggs and pivot neutral b, or situationally fair, the opponent can't just pin him down in neutral. His perfect pivot and options out of perfect pivot are pretty great too.

It's definitely not easy to capitalize on Yoshi once the opponent is in, either. All it takes is one mistimed combo move for the Yoshi to respond with 10 damage and a neutral reset (nair), or for the Yoshi to use jab and turn the tide really fast, especially if they get jab usmash. The nair combined with frame one heavy armor and low fall speed make Yoshi arguably one of the hardest characters to combo. As for edge guarding, I think Yoshi's recovery is more than ample. Especially for horizontal recoveries, I almost never see Yoshi players get gimped. His air speed, up b momentum changing, and command grab make it pretty challenging to juggle, and originally I wasn't going to mention it, but since I've seen it kill a few players in tournament, his down b has to at least be watched out for when trying to juggle him. And since he's heavy, he won't die till late, especially compared to some of the top tiers.

I think it's pretty important to emphasize how much Yoshi can capitalize off of reads as well. His uair combined with jump height make air dodge reads scary, a roll read can end with 32 damage off dair, etc, and he has the mobility to make it work.

I still think Yoshi is a high potential, underrated character, and that it shouldn't be passed off as a meme or whatever. But I guess I don't extensively play Yoshi. He just seems like he has too much stuff, and his weaknesses like lack of flow, grab/grab reward, and roll don't make him not... really good, at least. And even though people were saying this a year ago, I'm still really surprised he doesn't place highly on a more consistent basis. But he does place well every now and then, and his playerbase is without a doubt limited.

 

[C0rvus]

What about Conquest and (occasionally) Revelations? Conquest on Lunatic is arguably the most difficult FE game in the franchise, and it required plenty of tactics.

Pretty sure he was referring to Awakening, where the MC is a literal tactician. I think it had to do with pairing up being broken, and poor map design. But I'm far from an expert on the Fire Emblem games.

I can see a Yoshi philosophy based on taking trades. His double jump armor was traditionally been a key component to this idea, but without double jump cancelling it's a bit more situational. Still totally unsure of what to think of Yoshi. I've heard opinions of all kinds, too. He's probably pretty good. Perhaps a test run is in order.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I use 90% Yoshi and 10% Brawler in tournaments. And my Yoshi is better by a great margin.

I faintly remember you saying most of the time your Mii Brawler is more on point than your Yoshi at times, and the few matches I've seen it seemed like you had a better job doing well with Brawler than Yoshi, though of course this was a couple months ago so maybe that's changed.

To be fair, he lives in a fairly weak region. (Jband told me about his region being very weak, so no idea if thats true but from watching videos it seems likely)

TX isn't really a weak region, just a fair region outside of Dallas where we don't exactly pick the top tiers to play2win. Otherwise we still get players like Trela or Megafox that can demolish entire regions. (Trela defeating pretty much all of Socal at 2ggt)

Me and Pidgey got doubled eliminated by Bayo.

Ah alright, Pidgey was the 2nd Yoshi. Couldn't remember the name since at first I thought it was Kitka.

 

[TheGlove]

Well not to bring up bayonetta again, but https://www.twitch.tv/dabuz18

Esam was testing DI and apparently he is getting something that is working to consistently get out of Tyroy's Bayo combos Idk if a player with better analysis can watch this and see if this is actually legit

Edit: Dabuz is doing lessons now definitely a portion of this stream to re watch later though

EDit again: someone tweeted out odd shots of the testing portion https://twitter.com/Ge0_Smash/status/730227964152053760

 

[PK Gaming]

Pretty sure he was referring to Awakening, where the MC is a literal tactician. I think it had to do with pairing up being broken, and poor map design. But I'm far from an expert on the Fire Emblem games.

I can see a Yoshi philosophy based on taking trades. His double jump armor was traditionally been a key component to this idea, but without double jump cancelling it's a bit more situational. Still totally unsure of what to think of Yoshi. I've heard opinions of all kinds, too. He's probably pretty good. Perhaps a test run is in order.

Oh, I was thinking of Chrom as the MC for Awakening which is ironic because I make "Robin is the main character of Awakening" jokes all of the time.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I honestly feel like people REALLY over exaggerate how good Bayonetta is. Shes not broken by any means. People in general need to stop being lazy and abuse the truly bad stuff she has. Shes light af, has a poor neutral, a terrible airdodge, and shielding against her will do you wonders. Players have to actually learn and lab the mu against her. While I could care less about the salt or hate, it just comes off as childish when people whine so much about her. She doesnt really have the results that scream oh she is broken or top tier either.

 

[ARGHETH]

Shes light af

...She's about the same weight as Zelda and the same gravity as ZSS and Ryu.

the results that scream oh she is broken or top tier either.

Doesn't have results that say she's top tier? Really? Broken is one thing, but saying results don't support her being top tier?

 

[zeldasmash]

She doesn't really have the results that scream oh she is broken or top tier either.

Broken, understandable.

Her not being top tier............you do know the only character with more Top 8 results then her is Cloud right? And the fact that she carries players that were previously rather unknown to the same levels of pro players?

Clearly she isn't top tier......

 

[HeavyLobster]

I honestly feel like people REALLY over exaggerate how good Bayonetta is. Shes not broken by any means. People in general need to stop being lazy and abuse the truly bad stuff she has. Shes light af, has a poor neutral, a terrible airdodge, and shielding against her will do you wonders. Players have to actually learn and lab the mu against her. While I could care less about the salt or hate, it just comes off as childish when people whine so much about her. She doesnt really have the results that scream oh she is broken or top tier either.

Bayo doesn't really have a poor neutral. Shielding against her is good but she can stay pretty safe and get grabs when necessary because of how much respect you have to give her other tools. Her neutral is a relative weakness with some flaws but it is by no means bad. Her results for a relatively new character absolutely do scream top tier if not broken. Her edgeguarding is one of the best easily. She may be a lightweight but she doesn't have it as bad as Mewtwo/Rosalina. She's clearly one of the best characters in the game.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I apologize I DO think shes top tier, I just dont think shes broken. I just worded that poorly my b.

 

[Nobie]

Watching Xanadu, this reminds me of what I mentioned about Rich Brown the other day. A lot of Mewtwos seem to overestimate the power of nair even though it's an attack that loses to hitboxes.

I feel like nair is a tool that works because you've gotten your opponent scared, so when they're the ones pressing the advantage they can just stuff it without even trying.

 

[Y2Kay]

Watching Xanadu, this reminds me of what I mentioned about Rich Brown the other day. A lot of Mewtwos seem to overestimate the power of nair even though it's an attack that loses to hitboxes.

I feel like nair is a tool that works because you've gotten your opponent scared, so when they're the ones pressing the advantage they can just stuff it without even trying.

Good old post Abadango era, where everyone doesn't charge their shadowball and everyone spams nair.

Not gonna lie that M2 scrubbed out. It's a shame.

 

[Radical Larry]

I want to talk about Bayonetta's recovery more than anything, because there is a misconception that it's one of the best recoveries. The reality is, is that her recovery can be good or it can be very bad and it all depends on how far she is sent off the stage, if her second jump is used up and how horizontal or semi-spike-like the attack that hit her was. Her recovery is only very beneficial whenever she has her second jump and is within reach of the stage or even over it, but there are many ways to ultimately beat her recovery, and they are powerful attacks that send her horizontally or a semi-spike move, as mentioned above. If you hit her with either attack, her recovery means almost nothing.

And let's talk about gimping or edge-guarding her. It's not too hard, actually. The best way to do it is by hitting her out of Afterburner Kick due to her not having the most optimal endlag to it. Another way is to use multiple characters' N-Airs, disjoints or projectiles when she's trying to recover with Witch Twist and/or her second jump. Knocking her away when she uses her second jump makes her very vulnerable and forces her to use Afterburner Kick after being knocked back. That makes her recovery so predictable that it essentially makes her edge-guarded. It is the same thing that is applied to Ryu, if you think about it.

But people really fear her using Afterburner Kick due to its range and the fact she can indeed hit you from it, but Bayonetta will have no other choice but to try recovering with it, since there's barely any other options, so using a disjointed or faster attack works out wonders for players. Where people need to go in terms of their strategy is offensive against her recovery, you can't play defensive against it, you can't use any gimmick, just really hit her.

Ike's F-Air, Link's F-Air, Villager's F-Air, Bowser's F-Air and B-Air and Marth's aerials (except U-Air) are all good examples of getting her away from the stage better. And for added effect, and for a meteor to possibly come and hit her, try baiting her to using Witch Time and then meteor her; jumping and baiting her while she's near the ledge will possibly cause the player to use it.

I just really think if people abuse her exploitable recovery and use kill moves instead of gimmicks, or use moves that send her in a disadvantageous and irrecoverable distance, then surely she'll be dropping like the butterfly she is.

Though if a new update were to come to remove usage of Afterburner Kick after being hit off stage or gave her a 0.89 aerial speed, her recovery would just be spayed.

 

[Luco]

Well not to bring up bayonetta again, but https://www.twitch.tv/dabuz18

Esam was testing DI and apparently he is getting something that is working to consistently get out of Tyroy's Bayo combos Idk if a player with better analysis can watch this and see if this is actually legit

Edit: Dabuz is doing lessons now definitely a portion of this stream to re watch later though

EDit again: someone tweeted out odd shots of the testing portion https://twitter.com/Ge0_Smash/status/730227964152053760

I remember some time ago people were talking about SDI-ing up to avoid the final Uair. I don't remember what happened to that though.

 

[DunnoBro]

Yoshi doesn't do any better than Ike, DK, Marth, or ROB. Pretty sure no one ever said yoshi was bad, just that others overrate him and they do. Some believe he's a lowkey top tier, despite at least 3 pretty much unplayable top tier MUs and overall an absolute inability to be consistent. The wall lost to a non-pr'd bowser jr when he came to xanadu. He still got 2nd, but this kind of stuff just keeps happening to yoshi.

Wario's Chomp isn't actually that good. It has the same 'issue' it had in Brawl - you don't need to cover that one specific move in order to adequately deal with it. Just use the same general, anti-aerial based approach that you'd use against Wario anyways and Chomp becomes almost a non-issue. There's a relatively easy rule of thumb: if a move beats Wario's dair head on, it will also beat Chomp [and nair for that matter]. Typically these moves are quick and safe utilts, nairs, uairs or sometimes bairs. Neither Shield nor Spotdodge are even part of that equation in the first place but these are the only things Chomp is useful against.

Yoshi's neutral B provides good frontal coverage in the air with decent range and start-up time, something no other of his move can provide to the same extent. It can be reversed with very little lag and can be used to grab opponents that Yoshi is facing away from. A character like Yoshi who's highly mobile, flexible and has a good projectile benefits a lot from a command grab, especially one with such good properties [good range, little ending lag, useful for non-grabbing purposes, ...]

No, I feel like bite is irrefutably superior. It covers multiple ledge options, it comes out about 13 frames quicker + head intangibility, not to mention the ability to hold make it a far more versatile landing and neutral tool. It also actually has less lag, unless you did the longest hold possible. (Beating certain projectiles is also a huge bonus)

Range is the only aspect egg lay is superior, even the fact bite sends them offstage lets it convert into kills and advantage more often.

Frame 21 also means it actually can be reacted to, not by traditional means but invincible/intangible oos options like certain usmashes or upspecials. Wario doesn't have to worry about that as much. And this makes the anti air > command grab issue wario has even worse too.

I want to talk about Bayonetta's recovery more than anything, because there is a misconception that it's one of the best recoveries. The reality is, is that her recovery can be good or it can be very bad and it all depends on how far she is sent off the stage, if her second jump is used up and how horizontal or semi-spike-like the attack that hit her was.

Literally every recovery hinges on if they have their jump or not or if they got hit at a bad angle.

Her recovery is irrefutably one of the best though, simply because you can't contest her offstage, she can comeback from nearly anywhere, and she also can't be ledge trumped consistently.

Even sheik has to worry about trumps and two-frames, or bouncing fish getting hit with a disjoint. The fact she's not completely untouchable doesn't mean her recovery isn't one of the best, it just means despite being so good she has to actually think about her options a bit.

There isn't a single character in the game that can't be gimped or edgeguarded. It being possible doesn't automatically make a recovery bad.

 

[Das Koopa]

Random thought

Smash 4's metagame is in a significantly better position than Brawl's was at this point in time. WHOBO 1 was barely a year after release, and infamously had 7 Meta Knights in the Top 8. I think the real concern at the moment is Bayonetta, because for whatever balance qualms people have with certain characters, Bayonetta is the only one dominating at any level (mostly a mid one) and there's a bit of anxiety and fear about what may happen if a top player picks her up.

The game's health is also overall better, I'd say - as bad as the Bayo wars seem, we aren't at "Mew2King opens G2 crews by planking while the crowd jeers".

 

[ぱみゅ]

One thing that greatly helped the game is the fact it is being patched. If it weren't for patches we'd have Top 8s where at least 6 would be Diddy Kongs.

Another thing worth noting is that this game is somehow not played like Brawl. I mean, the engine is about the same, but this time around people actually take risks, while Brawl was more about patience. Maybe is the fact you get rewarded for hitting and followups are more possible, but I can only wonder~

 

[Radical Larry]

Literally every recovery hinges on if they have their jump or not or if they got hit at a bad angle.

Her recovery is irrefutably one of the best though, simply because you can't contest her offstage, she can comeback from nearly anywhere, and she also can't be ledge trumped consistently.

Even sheik has to worry about trumps and two-frames, or bouncing fish getting hit with a disjoint. The fact she's not completely untouchable doesn't mean her recovery isn't one of the best, it just means despite being so good she has to actually think about her options a bit.

There isn't a single character in the game that can't be gimped or edgeguarded. It being possible doesn't automatically make a recovery bad.

That's the thing, though, you CAN contest her off-stage depending on character. There is no character in this game who's recovery can't be contested. Bayonetta's no exception to this in any way, especially to the sword fighters.

It's like this with a sword-fighter, she's doomed if she comes from above. Remember, she only has two moves to help her recovery, and she can't afford to be hit by a powerful disjointed move. If she recovers from high above with the Hado Input Afterburner Kick, the sword fighter could shield and use F-Air or U-Air depending on character. Remember that Afterburner Kick suffers the same flaws as Sheik's Bouncing Fish, Bayonetta can be hit out of it. If she goes more horizontally with her recovery, you can pretty much tell that Link, Ike, Toon Link and Cloud could just F-Air and KO her.

Saying that Bayonetta cannot be contested off stage is a horrible argument when you consider that no recovery can't be contested. Even Villager's near-perfect recovery can be beaten. If a recovery can't be contested, then it would automatically be the best recovery, right? But Bayonetta's can still be contested. Her recovery is very versatile, but it's not even close to many other recoveries like the aforementioned Villager.

 

[Yikarur]

One thing that greatly helped the game is the fact it is being patched. If it weren't for patches we'd have Top 8s where at least 6 would be Diddy Kongs.

1.0.0 Rosalia is as ridiculous and was a Diddy hard counter.

 

[BunbUn129]

That's the thing, though, you CAN contest her off-stage depending on character. There is no character in this game who's recovery can't be contested. Bayonetta's no exception to this in any way, especially to the sword fighters.

It's like this with a sword-fighter, she's doomed if she comes from above. Remember, she only has two moves to help her recovery, and she can't afford to be hit by a powerful disjointed move. If she recovers from high above with the Hado Input Afterburner Kick, the sword fighter could shield and use F-Air or U-Air depending on character. Remember that Afterburner Kick suffers the same flaws as Sheik's Bouncing Fish, Bayonetta can be hit out of it. If she goes more horizontally with her recovery, you can pretty much tell that Link, Ike, Toon Link and Cloud could just F-Air and KO her.

Saying that Bayonetta cannot be contested off stage is a horrible argument when you consider that no recovery can't be contested. Even Villager's near-perfect recovery can be beaten. If a recovery can't be contested, then it would automatically be the best recovery, right? But Bayonetta's can still be contested. Her recovery is very versatile, but it's not even close to many other recoveries like the aforementioned Villager.

People say Bayonetta's recovery can't be contested as a way to put emphasis on how good it is.

When edge-guarding any character in the game, you have to consider all of their options at their disposal, from their double jump(s), up specials, flip-kick-type specials, momentum-providing aerials, aerial attacks in general, and air dodges. You have to consider these options and predict the manner in which your opponent recovers--this is true for all characters, including Little Mac. The difference between a good and bad recovery is that a good recovery has more options, and as a result, your chances of guessing correctly are smaller. Little Mac has fewer options when returning to the stage than Bayonetta, so reading how Bayonetta chooses to recover is naturally much more difficult. There's a difference between contesting a recovery and successfully edge-guarding it.


Your ideal recovery provides distance, defensive hitboxes, and unpredictability, and Bayonetta's excels in all three regards

 

[LordMix]

So John Madden who was a football genius can't give insight equal too or greater then a current NFL player?

Your logic is flawed as ****.

Also being a top player doesnt mean you can articulate your thoughts well or that you even know all there is to know. It means you execute better and more consistently in a high level environment.

it must mean something if im a top player and your not LOL you're not even the best ryu wtf plz die

 

[BunbUn129]

it must mean something if im a top player and your not LOL you're not even the best ryu wtf plz die

Let's not start a firefight.

Being a top level player does not automatically mean you know better. Having an elitist attitude is not constructive to competitive discussion. ZeRo is the best Smash 4 player and we all know how amazingly wrong his opinions and impressions can be.

 

[Nekoo]

I dunno if he's playing the vilain because he play Bowser or if we can agree that his ego is Top-Tiers.



I also bet 5$ on Emblem Lord.

 

[Megamang]

Not to mention that her recovery is one of the more dangerous ones to try and contest anyways. Eating a divekick in a close game can straight up close it out, and puts you in a horrible position. If you don't have the power to send her really far, she just ABKs again and is fine. She can flow right off the ledge into a strong string/combo, hell a better combo because she gets all her specials back on ledgegrab.

Personally, I prefer to read the easy to stage ABK and kill her off that way, its too volatile offstage unless you have a disjoint.


LordMix Don't come in here with that **** again. You haven't stood up to a top player, and I know ill be cheering for Trela if he ever comes around to body you. The cocky schtick was old, and now your literally trying to start a fight days later over someone not being the best Ryu... When Pollo and Le Troof compete in ostensibly stronger regions and, when they show up, are more consistent.


EDIT: Smashboards keeps redirecting me to a shady website that is trying to install 'flashplayer.exe'. Beware.

 

[Y2Kay]

it must mean something if im a top player and your not LOL you're not even the best ryu wtf plz die

I hate to burst ur bubble bruh but.......

You are NOT the best Bowser.

Ever since ZeRo named u best bowser you haven't shut the **** up about it.

Please spare everyone in this thread you arrogance. Your ego is way out of line.

I'd kick ur ass but it seems like Venia did all the asskicking for me

 

[Nekoo]

Anyway. Are people really saying that Bayonetta isn't ''Broken''?

I mean. Yeah. She's not Akuma from SFII tiers of broken. But she really need some larges fixes...
Whenever it's Hitbox,SDI DI multiplier, Recovery, Witch Time etc... Where a lot of little thing need to be changed for her to be ''acceptable''.
Also anyone have seen the last Pink Fresh's Bayo vs Pacman (Forgot his name) set?
It was painful to watch for the pac-man. Like really.

Also anyone saying that Bayonetta don't have a good enough neutral/Pressure/Recovery... well. We just don't need to care about their opinion at this point. And anyone saying she don't have result too.
Result isn't only ''Winning''. When you see that she's above anyone else in terme of general result... Well... I don't know what kind of proof other thant her winning EVO or CEO you need.

Which lead to my second subject.

What if we look to character overall result according to the number of entrant?

What i mean is that if a tourney only have 40 player we just look to the top 8.

100+ Top 16

300+ Top 32

EVO/CEO Top64

Because i mean... Being in top 32/300 is not the same as 32/40... So maybe it could help to see result from other character? Maybe we'll see who is truly Mid-tiers because they can almost reach the top in those kind of bigger event?

Again. Sorry For my english...

 

[FallofBrawl]

LordMix While I don't always agree with Emblem Lord, he made a great point, take the damn L

On topic, while Bayo doesn't get the results at the top level, her mid to high level dominance isn't something to scoff at. She reminds me of prepatch Luigi, but stronger and more relevant.

BTW, which zoners do have a good Bayo MU? Besides Megaman

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So the Bowser named the best by Zero is a little kid by the looks?

Good to know.

For the record LordMix : best with a character =/= top level player. Two different categories. Over half of the cast lacks a top level player. Bowser is one of them.

 

[Y2Kay]

So the Bowser named the best by Zero is a little kid by the looks?

Good to know.

For the record LordMix : best with a character =/= top level player. Two different categories. Over half of the cast lacks a top level player. Bowser is one of them.

Don't let his profile fool you, he's sixteen not twenty six lol

 

[BunbUn129]

Don't let his profile fool you, he's sixteen not twenty six lol

Oh shoot, we all fell for the b8!

 

[wedl!!]

Poe's Law likely applies here.

You guys are (probably) getting baited super hard.