Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Jamurai]

I might be wrong but if I feel like I heard that the Chakram infinite could only be done with large mii swordfighter. Even if that's not the case it's still an infinite belonging to a character that is either worst in the game or bottom 3 without question, even when their full moveset is allowed.

You shouldn't make these statements when you don't know the character. In fact you're many months behind on how viable this character is. Swordfighter has been hugely buffed since their dark days. The reason why this stigma still exists is because Miis are illegal in a lot of places (for some reason), so no one has footage proving people wrong about it.

EDIT: We posted at exactly the same time. My post still stands though.

 

[Peppermint1201]

You shouldn't make these statements when you don't know the character. In fact you're many months behind on how viable this character is. Swordfighter has been hugely buffed since their dark days. The reason why this stigma still exists is because Miis are illegal in a lot of places (for some reason), so no one has footage proving people wrong about it.

EDIT: We posted at exactly the same time. My post still stands though.

Huh. I had no idea Mii Sword the buffs that they did. Still not a good character though, and my original point (that comparing Bayonetta's death combos to the Chakram infinite is apples to oranges) still stands as well.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Some of you guys are wondering if Bayometa is mid tier or not. I'm over here concerned for the balance of the game, trying to wrap my head around the complete absurdity that is witch time.

After playing her non stop since Thursday, I am actually asking myself the same question. Her tools are just ridiculous. Both quality and quantity.

 

[Ffamran]

Luigi does not have enough ground mobility and movement options to truly take advantage of up-smashes, since a misplaced up-smash can get you punished. Mario is a much better user of reverse up smash and sliding up smash because he has enough mobility to bait and then fade back, and most likely not get punished for doing so (or at least the punishment is minimal). This question has been brought up countless times and other luigi mains already answered this question ages ago (in the other competitive impressions thread), so this really should not even be discussed since it is meaningless.

Once again, was asking why Luigi players aren't using it to cover ledge options more because Up Smash is relatively safe and running and JC UP Smashes cover a lot of distance. Was not asking why Luigi players aren't spamming Up Smashes like it was a frame 2, 3 recovery, 50%, 90 degree, 100 base, 300 growth, completely invincible, and heavily disjointed move with, just for kicks, metallic pink fire effects.

Also, for people complaining about Bayonetta's Dair, welcome to the world of actually usable slam attacks in Bayonetta and DMC. Either they have good knockback or do enough damage to justify their use in those games not to mention you're fighting punching bags in those games. Also, welcome to Smash, in general, where 70% to 90% of all Dairs are utter crap while the rest are so good they make crap Dairs even more crap. Exhibit C: Cloud's "balanced Melee / Brawl Falco Dair" and Exhibit R: Ryu's "balanced Melee Marth Dair" that he can setup, but it doesn't have a massive, disjointed hitbox. Of the DLC characters, only Mewtwo and Roy have so-so to bad Dairs while Bayonetta, Cloud, Corrin, Lucas, and Ryu have good Dairs.

 

[AnEventHorizon]

Didn't Regi get 3rd? Saw him lose to Leo in Losers Finals.

You are correct, and I have edited it.

@Nah Speaking of jumpsquats, Corrin got a frame 6 one (joining heavier characters like Yoshi/DK/Wario. I do wonder how different the jump for dragon lunge is though (I think I heard it was 3 or 4 frames), and if that jump bypasses the shield drop frames like a regular jump at all.

 

[Nobie]

The Story of Mii Swordfighter

Mii Swordfighter wasn't the fastest knight, or the strongest one, but Mii Swordfighter always tried hard. However, no one thought much of Mii Swordfighter.

One day Mii Swordfighter got a 14% damage bair, but sadly no one in the kingdom noticed.

Then the Custom Moves War Began and Mii Swordfighter died in action

RIP

 

[DE235]

How does the team balance Miis. I don't see them played much in japanese tournaments so I wonder how they get the info to make those changes.

 

[Vipermoon]

One thing I can't stand about Bayo is how hard it is to beat her moves. Fspecial and Uspecial seem impossible to challenge. I haven't been able to trade yet. What kind of hitbox ****ery is that? You can trade with Dair but it's tough and usually not in your favor.

Does anyone else have better luck challenging?

 

[TTTTTsd]

One thing I can't stand about Bayo is how hard it is to beat her moves. Fspecial and Uspecial seem impossible to challenge. I haven't been able to trade yet. What kind of hitbox ****ery is that? You can trade with Dair but it's tough and usually not in your favor.

Does anyone else have better luck challenging?

I've beaten her FSpecial with Mario Dtilt once IIRC but I don't know if that was a coincidence or not.
I imagine disjoint or any kind of blocking works.

USpecial is just don't **** with that unless you have a multihit since I don't believe it has any invincibility so if she's doing it OoS early you can nab the damage. Landing hitboxes also may apply perhaps, but I have no clue on the solidity of this claim.

 

[C0rvus]

I keep telling myself "That side special should never hit me in neutral." and "I'll punish that next time."
But I agree, it's been a struggle.

 

[Vipermoon]

I mean I get that we need to and will get better at fighter her but at the same time, she will get better at fighting us (aka abusing her crap)

 

[Lavani]

SideB doesn't seem disjointed at all, at least on the ground/divekick versions.

UpB is super disjointed above though, you probably don't want to challenge that at all.

 

[TTTTTsd]

SideB doesn't seem disjointed at all, at least on the ground/divekick versions.

UpB is super disjointed above though, you probably don't want to challenge that at all.

Side-B from what I can tell has the same kind of hitbox type as like, Wizkick/Falcon Kick but I COULD be wrong. But considering I KNOW I beat it with Mario Dtilt it probably does.

Up+B's vertical hitbox should not be challenged, it's a lot easier to beat horizontally due to the mostly pure vertical movement and lack of I-frames though.

 

[Corgi]

I still don't think Link should be that low. He's at least above Roy, no?
Link has advantageous MUs against characters like Roy and Kirby, and even Robin, and any low tier character can be beaten by Link or be at an even at least.
I'm still iffy on the whole Link being so low thing. It just doesn't sit right with me.
Link's a character that's not that hard to learn, but very hard to master.

Absolutely. I picked up Link in the glory days of Gamecube master race, and through his many alterations, find that in Smash U is the epitome of his strength. He has many, many options, has one of the most complex advanced tech repertoires of any character, and has a kill confirm off a lagless ariel (bair to up special, boys!).

Being that so few people are very good with Link, we can't point and say "raise his tier placement", because for every decent Link there is, there are 500 garbage Glory Links. In a sense, this is a case of "a bad apple spoils the bunch".

If it were up to me, he'd be in B tier. Unfortunately, his skill ceiling is the reason he's so low.

 

[FallofBrawl]

I remember Witch Twist beating my Cloud dair once, I'm not sure if it was the Bayo getting lucky or if it actually does beat the dair.

 

[C0rvus]

I remember Witch Twist beating my Cloud dair once, I'm not sure if it was the Bayo getting lucky or if it actually does beat the dair.

Up tilt can beat Cloud's dair as well. Me likey

 

[LancerStaff]

Spot dodge, okay. No reason to complain about the air dodge though. Fairly normal. And remember, a 98 weight is pretty high (and don't mention Pit and his combination of dodges and weight, idc lol).

Fsmash is easy to understand if you think about it. Before frame 18, the limb is not completely extended. The 15.2% hit is still the tipper in the same place on the limb, it just isn't at max range yet. Many characters can't punish the 16% tipper. Too far away. Oh and it ends on 56 (see what I mean @Kurogane Hammer )

Dash Attack is good! It's a good punish tool out of a run where your only other option is Dash Grab (bad unless you have kill throw available) and DL. It's really easy to cross up shields which may lessen your punishment especially if you manage to barely cross it up so they can't tell which side you're on. 13% is really good damage for it and the knockback angle sets up into Fair or if at very low %, Utilt. It also eats up landings. Here's another situation: it beats Bayo's broken counter cuz multihit.

Frame 6 and 7 of Nair is the strong hit of both the sword and the limb in front and behind. It hits in front/below probably before 11.

I knew it was a F6 jumpsquat as soon as I first used the character. He has a sword and a 98 weight so no big deal. It sucks because I use both him and Marth, so I'd love it if they had the same JS so I don't have to adapt to different jump timings.

Yeah, didn't know until yesterday that Pit had top tier dodges. Usually use him as a benchmark for things because I always have his data out... Looks like Sakurai wanted to replicate the busted KIU dodges as close as sanely possible on Pit, hehe.

Speaking of the "everything's stupid" balance philosophy, that's also from KIU. Made a bit more sense there because everything had a hard counter and a bunch of other factors... I dunno. Just really hope they turn everything down a notch next game.

Really ought to lab the move and see how all the hitboxes work myself. You really gotta bring up the faf thing lol?

Meh, I'm used to Pit's f7 DA that does 11% and crosses up fairly easily. Dunno how well Corrin's catches landings... Seems very telegraphed due to startup and Corrin's low speed and I don't think it covers a big area. Typically when trying to land against Corrin it feels like drifting away is always the best idea, unless that puts you right in tipper range of course. Also feels like he struggles with platforms because, again, slow movement. Does up angled Fsmash go through platforms?

Pit has 96 weight, two swords and a f5 jumpsquat though.

And yeah what makes Bayo golden is her disadvantage. Escaping trap situations in this game is super important and it means she only needs to fear REAL kill confirms.

Maybe I'm missing something (best Bayo I've played is the CPU so probably) but wouldn't the increasing landing lag from using specials in the air mean something here?

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah uh, as a Cloud player as well, I can safely say....

Dair shenanigans are not a good idea against Bayo beyond beating out ledge options or the usual stuff. Just don't lol.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Maybe I'm missing something (best Bayo I've played is the CPU so probably) but wouldn't the increasing landing lag from using specials in the air mean something here?

She can cancel the landing lag using her standard special while falling (it becomes standard soft landing lag, which is like 2 frames iirc)

 

[LancerStaff]

She can cancel the landing lag using her standard special while falling (it becomes standard soft landing lag, which is like 2 frames iirc)

Huh. That doesn't sound intentional...

 

[TTTTTsd]

She can cancel the landing lag using her standard special while falling (it becomes standard soft landing lag, which is like 2 frames iirc)

Oh, geez. You made it sound crazier than it was! It'll probably be useful albeit a little gimmicky, but if someone runs after you assuming you whiff the combo (which is what I'd use this for) the effectivity might go down a good deal....

 

[Routa]

When it comes to buffs and Miis... The thing is that Miis really don't need buffs. Ofc some tweaks could be nice when it comes to Gunner Smash Attack linkings. But the thing is that... Their Guest 1111 needs buffs to be viable (Swordfighter and Brawler) and buffing Guest 1111 would put Any Size XXXX in very scary spot. For example Guest 1111 Swordfighter has poor mobility, mediocre neutral, bad disadvantage and advantage state and poor recovery. Now in the other hand 50/00:00 X32/3X has good mobility, strong neutral (Chakram is one of the best projectiles due to it being fast, good damage, can combo into other moves for example Lumberchak (multihit Chakram info F-smash), goes through things like the statues in Castle Siege and can be angled), okish disadvantage and good advantage state and good recovery. You could compare the difference between Guest 1111 and Any Size XXXX to Link and Tink. Like I said there is no need to buff them... All they need is a ruleset where they can use their full potential.

And yes my english sucks... But so does Fox's voice.

Edit: removed the quote that had pretty mich nothing to do with my post. Was going to answer to it but accidentally started to write about other thing :S

 

[FallofBrawl]

Huh. That doesn't sound intentional...

Just like hitstun cancelling, but it's still there isn't it.

Oh, geez. You made it sound crazier than it was! It'll probably be useful albeit a little gimmicky, but if someone runs after you assuming you whiff the combo (which is what I'd use this for) the effectivity might go down a good deal....

Not crazy useful, but assuming your opponent is still in the air, they really can't do anything about this. It's like "oops my second witch twist sent you at that weird diagonal angle? Let me spray some bullets at ya and land safely."

 

[TTTTTsd]

Just like hitstun cancelling, but it's still there isn't it.


Not crazy useful, but assuming your opponent is still in the air, they really can't do anything about this.

It's mostly good on hit if you want to duck out and get better advantage I suppose. It seemed like it'd be REALLY useful on whiff but oh well haha, can't win em all I guess!

 

[Thinkaman]

As far as I can tell, the endlag for any action Bayonetta does while landing is extended to meet her cumulative aerial special obligation; doing two Witch Twists and then landing with a special or aerial will result in longer landing/end lag than usual.

However, this still seems like the optimal mitigation strategy. It can even be hard to tell the difference.

 

[Ffamran]

You are correct, and I have edited it.

@Nah Speaking of jumpsquats, Corrin got a frame 6 one (joining heavier characters like Yoshi/DK/Wario. I do wonder how different the jump for dragon lunge is though (I think I heard it was 3 or 4 frames), and if that jump bypasses the shield drop frames like a regular jump at all.

Falco, Jigglypuff, and Zelda say, "Hi!" They're the lightest characters to have a frame 6 jump. Meanwhile, in frame 7 territory, only Mii Swordfighter counts if they're made small since default weighs 100 units with Robin being the runner up and she's a middleweight, 95 units... Why? ...

You could at least justify Falco's even though Greninja and ZSS exist and maybe Jiggles, but not Zelda. What's Zelda going to do? Her Fair and Bair still require a crapton of precision and her jump and air acceleration are by no means good. They might as well just given her a frame 9 jump, the lowest / worst mobility stats in everything, and made her weight 50. Even then, she's can't get any worse when she's the worst.

Up tilt can beat Cloud's dair as well. Me likey

Well, it (Bayonetta's Utilt) is disjointed...

 

[NachoOfCheese]

This is a pretty bad example. I might be wrong but if I feel like I heard that the Chakram infinite could only be done with large mii swordfighter. Even if that's not the case it's still an infinite belonging to a character that is low tier with and without their full moveset. Bayonetta's combos are more practical and they are on top of an already good character. Of course Bayonetta will seem bad for not "taking any names" -- she's been out for FOUR DAYS. Besides, we haven't exactly had a chance to see the Chakram stuff in tournament because most tournaments these days use 1111 miis.

Learn to read. I never said I expected results by now. I'm saying that this is the same BS that happens whenever a new character comes out. Give it a couple weeks.

 

[Radical Larry]

Absolutely. I picked up Link in the glory days of Gamecube master race, and through his many alterations, find that in Smash U is the epitome of his strength. He has many, many options, has one of the most complex advanced tech repertoires of any character, and has a kill confirm off a lagless ariel (bair to up special, boys!).

Being that so few people are very good with Link, we can't point and say "raise his tier placement", because for every decent Link there is, there are 500 garbage Glory Links. In a sense, this is a case of "a bad apple spoils the bunch".

If it were up to me, he'd be in B tier. Unfortunately, his skill ceiling is the reason he's so low.

The skill ceiling for Link is unimaginably high, even compared to the likes of Toon Link, who's just a more simple "get out of jail free" card of Link. If people see the tech skills that Link has and all of his tools, they'll be too scared to actually try playing him because he's not braindead like Sheik or Meta Knight; Link requires some of the utmost precision in the game and that's a dissuading factor for people.

But I play him because I know I can easily master him without a hitch. If it were up to me, I'd agree he'd be in B Tier at the best, C Tier at the least. I'm going to find some things about Link that make him easier to the audience, like his Jab 1 & 2 > Spin Attack combo.

 

[Thinkaman]

Well, I think it's important to be precise when describing both the best and worst character(s), and never resort to exaggeration. Doing so distorts the ENTIRE rest of the context for discussing all other relative viability within the roster.

I think Zelda is distinctly the worst character in high level 1v1, without question--almost to the point of being a statistical outlier. Her theory and tourney performance seem to support this.

However, Zelda is not irredeemable; her flaws are severe but not fatal.

Zelda has legitimately amazing tools at her disposal; there are just structural issues that impede Zelda from being able to effectively apply them in a high-level 1v1 environment.

• Zelda dair is so good that I would probably take it on any other character except Cloud and maybe Mario/Rosa/Fox. (Assuming that the frame timings relative to SH stayed the same.)
• The original elevator combo is a legitimately terrifying OoS and combo option.
• D-smash and d-tilt are fast moves.
• Toes and uair allow some of the most brutal punishes in the game.
• Nayru's Love is arguably the best general-purpose reflector in the game; bidirectional, multi-hitting, multi-reflecting, invincible, low endlag.
• Her buffed nair has legitimate combo-starting potential while landing.

The issue with Zelda is that however great these tools may be, she has zero control over the match as a whole--and unlike Ganondorf, she does not constantly exert the threat of being 2 reads away from a stock at any given moment.

I feel like Zelda winning is totally plausible, but requires the opponent make a different sort of errors than we'd associate as needed by low tiers like Ganondorf or Samus. The opponent has to make mistakes not so much that Zelda can simply punish, but that drop momentary control of the flow of the match and allow Zelda to actually use her (scary and capable) tools.

As Ganon, I need my opponent to make one or two big mistakes. As Zelda, I need them to make a dozen tiny ones.

 

[Corgi]

I'm going to find some things about Link that make him easier to the audience, like his Jab 1 & 2 > Spin Attack combo.

Lets add DThrow > x Utilts (% dependent) > Usmash into that list.

 

[Radical Larry]

Lets add DThrow > x Utilts (% dependent) > Usmash into that list.

D-Air into a stage spike can just be added since that sucker can be quite effective as a whole. D-Throw > U-Air is a good potential combo or KO move if one uses it just right. Heck, Bombs > F-Air is just one gruesome KO confirm. I can go on and on about Link's potential for combos.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Okay, this had to be shared:

Truly disgusting stuff. Missing a tether grab against Bayo seems to be especially bad news bears so will want to be extra careful unless they want a minimum of 30% tacked on and if your character has a bad vertical recovery or no wall jump, you seem to be sunk if she can get a witch time by the ledge.

 

[LancerStaff]

Just like hitstun cancelling, but it's still there isn't it.


Not crazy useful, but assuming your opponent is still in the air, they really can't do anything about this. It's like "oops my second witch twist sent you at that weird diagonal angle? Let me spray some bullets at ya and land safely."

Like TTTTTsd said, you made it sound more useful then it looks... Also typically when you try to cancel the landing lag of a special with another special it's stored until you land again. What happens here?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Okay, this had to be shared:

Truly disgusting stuff. Missing a tether grab against Bayo seems to be especially bad news bears so will want to be extra careful unless they want a minimum of 30% tacked on and if your character has a bad vertical recovery or no wall jump, you seem to be sunk if she can get a witch time by the ledge.

This at least very clearly shows that the fAir combos don't work if DI'd right

 

[Emblem Lord]

But it also shows that if Bayonetta dive kicks you, it really doesnt matter what your percent is.

You are going to die at worst and at best you take around 50%.

I love this woman.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

But it also shows that if Bayonetta dive kicks you, it really doesnt matter what your percent is.

You are going to die at worst and at best you take around 50%.

I love this woman.

You really look forward to getting nerfed do you

 

[TTTTTsd]

I can't seem to recreate that Divekick at 45% combo to the death ceiling.

Did the Link player...DI in?! Was he mad? I must be doing something wrong cause attempting that in training even with NO DI it doesn't work.

So yea, don't DI in against Bayo like, ever.

EDIT: NVM, got it. Window's a bit tighter than I expected. Seems like you'll HAVE to DI out and not have bad DI lol.

 

[Radical Larry]

I don't believe they will buff or nerf a character that just released. Look at how long it took Mewtwo to get his buffs.
And also, they apparently don't want to heavily nerf third party characters because of business.

 

[Ffamran]

Well, I think it's important to be precise when describing both the best and worst character(s), and never resort to exaggeration. Doing so distorts the ENTIRE rest of the context for discussing all other relative viability within the roster.

I think Zelda is distinctly the worst character in high level 1v1, without question--almost to the point of being a statistical outlier. Her theory and tourney performance seem to support this.

However, Zelda is not irredeemable; her flaws are severe but not fatal.

Zelda has legitimately amazing tools at her disposal; there are just structural issues that impede Zelda from being able to effectively apply them in a high-level 1v1 environment.

• Zelda dair is so good that I would probably take it on any other character except Cloud and maybe Mario/Rosa/Fox. (Assuming that the frame timings relative to SH stayed the same.)
• The original elevator combo is a legitimately terrifying OoS and combo option.
• D-smash and d-tilt are fast moves.
• Toes and uair allow some of the most brutal punishes in the game.
• Nayru's Love is arguably the best general-purpose reflector in the game; bidirectional, multi-hitting, multi-reflecting, invincible, low endlag.
• Her buffed nair has legitimate combo-starting potential while landing.

The issue with Zelda is that however great these tools may be, she has zero control over the match as a whole--and unlike Ganondorf, she does not constantly exert the threat of being 2 reads away from a stock at any given moment.

I feel like Zelda winning is totally plausible, but requires the opponent make a different sort of errors than we'd associate as needed by low tiers like Ganondorf or Samus. The opponent has to make mistakes not so much that Zelda can simply punish, but that drop momentary control of the flow of the match and allow Zelda to actually use her (scary and capable) tools.

As Ganon, I need my opponent to make one or two big mistakes. As Zelda, I need them to make a dozen tiny ones.

My problem with Zelda is how baffling her development history is. It was questionable when people learned she had 3 sweet-spot aerials with bad sour-spots. For Dair, not so much, but Fair and Bair? Captain Falcon's late Fair can act as a lingering hit doesn't because his has higher base knockback and active frames while Zelda's has low base and actives. Smash is supposed to be fun and at times, lenient, especially for low level play... And then Zelda comes along with aerials basically asking you to snipe a mile away with a flintlock pistol. By Smash 4, they knew what input lag does which makes spacing thing that more difficult. Her Fair and Bair can keep being high precision aerials, but the sour-spots really shouldn't be that bad. Maybe her sour-spots should do say, 9% with some semblance of knockback and the late hit does 6% with some semblance of knockback. Basically, similar to a Lucas Fair, but with stronger, smaller sweet-spots and weaker, but still stronger than Zelda's sour- and late hits. Oh, look! They're not so heavily punishing while also not having sour-spots that kind of make it seem like they're a bit too good. Basically, her own Dair reward of if you land the sweet-spot, you get massive reward, but if you land the sour-spot, it's okay, but not horrible to you.

Din's Fire is not a recovery move and for covering her recovery, not good since it travels slowly. Why does it make her helpless when used in the air? I'm not sure on this, but I think it also slows down her air speed when used as an aerial... There's no reason then.

The other questionable thing from her development history was her Up and Side Smashes. Those worked fine in Brawl, but didn't for Smash 4's launch until 1.0.6 or something. In other words, they fixed them and they broke them. How do you do that? They worked fine, then why were they broken? How did that even pass Q&A? Game development is a time-consuming and difficult job, but still.

Can she win? Does she have good moves? Yes and yes, but is she a good character? No. Not in competitive play, not in FFA, not in doubles, and for one reason: Zelda's development, character design, whatever you want to call it is just bad. When people said Samus was the worst and I blame memetic culture, the difference is that at least Samus functions in a way that doesn't question why and what the hell were they thinking when designing her. Samus's only real problems are some slightly under-tuned options and some dysfunctional moves. A broken character like Brawl Meta Knight would still be bad game design and bad balancing, but ultimately better character design than Zelda since he just works. He goes beyond what he should be doing, but if we consider Smash 4 Meta Knight as what Brawl was aiming for... then he doesn't have anything questionable. Zelda does. Zelda does to a degree where it's baffling how they though such a character was a good idea and for 3 games without truly addressing her problems.

Those patches that affected her? Fixes not buffs since they returned her Brawl Up and Side Smashes reliability and made Phantom Slash connect properly. The only real buff she had was at launch when they gave her a kill option with Farore's Wind and 1.0.8 when her landing lag was reduced and even then, the lowest is 18 on Dair which does not auto-cancel from a hop and isn't really useful for approaches. Nair does and Nair is, but we're reminded how Falco pretty much stole her Nair while she got a band-aid on hers as compensation. Where's the removal of Din's Fire helpless mode? Where's the reduction in risk for Fair and Bair's sour-spots and late hits? Where's the change to her air acceleration, 0.055, so that it isn't below average, below 0.07? Maybe Ftilt should be a bit stronger, maybe dash attack should be as strong as Peach's, maybe jab and Uair be a bit faster, and maybe her B-throw should kill a bit earlier since she's kind of "magical" and because her D-throw already serves as a combo throw. Maybe U-throw should be altered in a way that it can 50/50 with her Uair and Farore's Wind. Maybe her walk speed should be a bit faster with her Street Fighter cr. LK / Dtilt and maybe her run speed should be 1.4 under Peach and not 1.3 under Dr. Mario and Triple D. All these maybes won't shoot her up to even mid-tier, but they would at least shift her from questionable character design to flawed, but good character design.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I don't believe they will buff or nerf a character that just released. Look at how long it took Mewtwo to get his buffs.
And also, they apparently don't want to heavily nerf third party characters because of business.

If any of her death combos turn out to be true I sure hope she gets nerfed, or we can say bye bye to the games balance.