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Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

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TheHypnotoad

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Using the bullet arts is essentially giving up any opportunity to get a follow up, though. It might be useful for nair or uair, neither of which can really be followed up with anything else, but most moves don't want to use them.

It can get some easy damage by using dtilt from the other side of the stage, though, which could come in handy on Final Destination.
 
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LancerStaff

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If anything Bayo seems like Dorf but instead of raw damage it's combos. Fastest ground move was f7 or something? Jab's definitely f9. Quick jumpsquat buuut unless she has something incredibly fast that's still f7 max.

Speaking of which her standing grab is laughably short. Almost exactly like Dorf's IIRC. Dash grab seems decent to good so eh. (Worse then Pit's but not trash. Large window, I know.)

Ment to post like 15 minutes ago but crashboards.
 
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Zelder

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Another Bayonetta fun fact: holding a after a utilt is the only acceptable way to start a fight. It's like you're firing a starter pistol into the air!
 

Sonicninja115

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Could Bullet arts be used to force an approach? Like Fox's laser? And do they take a slot in the staling que?
 

TheHypnotoad

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If anything Bayo seems like Dorf but instead of raw damage it's combos. Fastest ground move was f7 or something? Jab's definitely f9. Quick jumpsquat buuut unless she has something incredibly fast that's still f7 max.

Speaking of which her standing grab is laughably short. Almost exactly like Dorf's IIRC. Dash grab seems decent to good so eh. (Worse then Pit's but not trash. Large window, I know.)

Ment to post like 15 minutes ago but crashboards.
She gets basically nothing off of grab anyway. There's no point in grabbing except to punish shield.
 

ItsRainingGravy

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Depending on how fast/safe Corrin's Neutral B actually is, it might be one of their most reliable killing moves competitively, via uncarged DFS -> charged chomp. I don't know the exact frame data on the uncharged shot, but it seems to come out just as fast as Bair/Dsmash at 1/4x speed. However, since the projectile takes some time to travel, it ends up being between Bair/Dsmash and Fsmash in terms of actual striking speed (though the chainsaw comes out as fast as bair/dsmash). Unlike Side B/Dsmash/Fsmash though, you don't have to worry about sweetspotting the move.

However, the best thing about this is that it works in the air too, because it makes Corrin stall to line up with the chomp. And even if you miss with the shot, the chomp is still active. Meaning that it has more versatility on how and when you can land the move in the match, also factoring in that you can delay/charge the blast. 20% damage from the chomp alone is nothing to scoff at, so the opponent is under the constant threat of being hit by DFS at close range. Extremely useful for punishing mistakes.

What I'm worried about though is how well opponents can Smash DI during the stun to avoid the chomp. Corrin's viability will lower or raise quite a bit depending on this factor alone, since I feel as though Corrin's killing poweress at CQC is much weaker otherwise. How threatening he/she can be at CQC greatly hindges on the effectiveness of this setup, IMO. Lastly, one weakness that DFS definitely has is that it has the endlag of a Smash Attack (to be fair it deserves it though).

Overall though, if you combine long range pokes with CQC DFS, you can constantly put opponents under the pressure of dying at higher percents...just as long as uncharged DFS -> charged chomp works as effectively as I hope it does.


Other things I've picked up on for Corrin is that, besides chomp, reverse sweetspotted Dsmash might be the next best CQC kill move. It's faster than uncharged DFS, and it deals a solid 14% and sends the opponent at a low angle. And because of its speed, it is easier to sweetspot the move in general. With the combination of Bair, Side B, B Reverse/Wavebounce DFS, and Dsmash; Corrin's back isn't all that vulnerable and can actually be fairly threatening.

What makes me REALLY sad though is that you can't pivot Dsmashes. This would make Corrin's Dsmash so much better, and easily their best ground move for kills. So that's a huge bummer. :/

Oh, and Side B is extremely fast for the amount of range it has. Although you have to sweetspot it, it is still going to be great for surprise kills. Missing with it sucks though, and leaves you quite vulnerable. Especially if you didn't pin the ground with it.


One of Corrin's biggest weaknesses to me though are that he/she feels very lacking in solid OoS moves. Usmash has no horizontal range, Up B is slow and doesn't kill well (despite having some invulnerability), and Side B just soars over people's heads at close range. At best, you can swat people away with Fair or Nair, but neither of those things kill. Corrin is definitely weak in shield.

Recovery is also an issue, but it's not super bad. Just subpar. But this is just my initial impressions on it. Could be slightly better, but as of right now, it feels like a weakness to me.

Lacking a fast foward killing aerial also sucks, but hopefully DFS patches that up slightly.

Corrin's biggest weakness of all though is the general lack of moves that send the opponent a good distance horizontally. This is a glaring issue, because it is a bit of a pain to get opponents offstage with Corrin. Ftilt, Dtilt, Fair, Nair, and Dash Attack all send the opponent up. And you want to save Fsmash, Dsmash, DFS, Side B, and Bair for killing the opponent. So good luck for getting the opponent offstage. It also affects Corrin's edgeguarding game, as well. Large blemishes that should be considered when playing him/her.


In summary, Corrin feels like a solid mid-tier character to me. Great strengths hindered by unfortunate weaknesses. Definitely won't be making waves unlike the high/top tiers, but has a solid enough set of tools to stand his/her ground in the current meta. Either way, this character is really fun to play.
 
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TheHypnotoad

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Depending on how fast/safe Corrin's Neutral B actually is, it might be one of their most reliable killing moves competitively, via uncarged DFS - charged chomp. I don't know the exact frame data on the uncharged shot, but it seems to come out just as fast as bair/dsmash at 1/4x speed. However, since the projectile takes some time to travel, it ends up being between bair/dsmash and Fsmash in terms of actual striking speed (though the chainsaw comes out as fast as bair/dsmash). Unlike Side B/Dsmash/Fsmash though, you don't have to worry about sweetspotting the move.

However, the best thing about this is that it works in the air too, because it makes Corrin stall to line up with the chomp. And even if you miss with the shot, the chomp is still active. Meaning that it has more versatility on how and when you can land the move in the match, also factoring in that you can delay/charge the blast. 20% damage from the chomp alone is nothing to scoff at, so the opponent is under the constant threat of being hit by DFS at close range.

What I'm worried about though is how well opponents can Smash DI during the stun to avoid the chomp. Corrin's viability will lower or raise quite a bit depending on this factor alone, since I feel as though Corrin's killing poweress at CQC is much weaker otherwise. How threatening he/she can be at CQC greatly hindges on the effectiveness of this setup, IMO. Lastly, one weakness that DFS definitely has is that it has the endlag of a Smash Attack (to be fair it deserves it though).

Overall though, if you combine long range pokes with CQC DFS, you can constantly put opponents under the pressure of dying at higher percents...just as long as uncharged DFS -> charged chomp works as effectively as I hope it does.


Other things I've picked up on for Corrin is that, besides chomp, reverse sweetspotted Dsmash might be the next best CQC kill move. Its faster than uncharged DFS, and it deals a solid 14% and send the opponent at a low angle. And because of it's speed, it is easier to sweetspot the move in general. With the combination of Bair, Side B, B Reverse/Wavebounce DFS, and Dsmash; Corrin's back isn't all that vulnerable and can actually be fairly threatening.

What makes me REALLY sad though is that you can't pivot Dsmashes. This would make Corrin's Dsmash so much better, and easily their best ground move for kills. So that's a huge bummer. :/

Oh, and Side B is extremely fast for the amount of range it has. Although you have to sweetspot it, it is still going to be great for surprise kills. Missing with it sucks though, and leaves you quite vulnerable. Especially if you didn't pin the ground with it.


One of Corrin's biggest weaknesses to me though are that he/she feels very lacking in solid OoS moves. Usmash has no horizontal range, Up B is slow and doesn't kill well (despite having some invulnerability), and Side B just soars over people's heads at close range. At best, you can swat people away with Fair or Nair, but neither of those thing kill. Corrin is definitely weak in shield.

Recovery is also an issue, but it's not super bad. Just subpar. But this is just my initial impressions on it. Could be slightly better, but as of right now, it feels like a weakness to me.

Lacking a fast foward killing aerial also sucks, but hopefully DFS patches that up slightly.

Corrin's biggest weakness of all though is the general lack of moves that send the opponent a good distance horizontally. This is a glaring issue, because it is a bit of a pain to get opponents offstage with Corrin.
Fun fact: if you land the fully charged neutral B and the chomp, it does 37%. THIRTY SEVEN PERCENT.
 
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LancerStaff

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Could Bullet arts be used to force an approach? Like Fox's laser? And do they take a slot in the staling que?
Holding A after a tilt? Basically the bare minimum for a projectile. Technically, but the Dtilt version does 10% max. It's a transcendentant hitbox so no reflecting though.

Nspecial, eh. Not going to do a lot of good besides stuffing S/FH projectiles. She's going to get out-zoned by everybody but Ryu or something.

She gets basically nothing off of grab anyway. There's no point in grabbing except to punish shield.
Just reiterating how terrible her defensive options are.

Fun fact: if you land the fully charged neutral B and the chomp, it does 37%. THIRTY SEVEN PERCENT.
Another fun fact: You'll never land this, ever. :p
 

Locke 06

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I'm going to be investigating Bayonetta a bit more, but my impression is that she's very trap and fear tactics based (SF4 Seth from what I understand). Some of her stuff doesn't seem to true combo when I want it to and the day1 inexperienced Bayo yells me "wtf, this feels like I should hit you." This is especially true with rage vs floaties. You have the frame advantage, but your moves are just too slow.

However, the analyst in me takes it a step further. "If they have time to airdodge, I can go up and punish that." So you wait and start a FAir combo/side-b string. Playing a lot of Kamui v Bayonetta, using Kamui NAirs to get out of combos was annoying at the beginning, but then using witch time punished those hard.

Given space, dtilt is really nice (or maybe it's because I'm envious of normal dtilts from playing Mega/Cloud) and sets up for a lot of her kit. Her mobility is nice, she has a Diddy like foxtrot (not as good as Cloud, but still very good) and grounded side-b is a lot like wizard's foot in terms of a burst mobility aggressive poke. I kind of wish the side-b was safer ala MK Dash attack, but whatever.

As said, her rolls are garbage. Bat within is really weird. Her crouch is fantastic, but because of her dtilt's utility it feels like she should have a crawl even though she doesn't.

I really like her, but vs high tiers that can run away from those uncomfortable positions (thinking of Pika mostly), I can see her having a rough time getting adequate reward.

Oh, and bullet climax is amazing vs SH falling aerial approaches and as a landing trap. Theoryland here, as I haven't tried it yet, but you bait someone to land with an airdodge (to avoid getting shot) and then you jump OoS and dive kick them to start a combo.

Going to give her full attention for the next month or so at least, so we'll see where that ends up. (Projectile MegaMan, stage control Cloud, combo mindgame Bayonetta sounds like a wonderful triumvirate for me)
 
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Radical Larry

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Another fun fact: You'll never land this, ever. :p
Well, not necessarily. It's easier to land than Warlock Punch and KO Punch, but still hard. Maybe if people go in the air and use it, they'll have an easier time. Also, if it hits on shield, there's an almost broken shield right there.

So two options are dodge it or pick Link.
And I'm serious, pick Link against Corrin. Bombs and N-Air beat the projectile.
 

Fatmanonice

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Using the bullet arts is essentially giving up any opportunity to get a follow up, though. It might be useful for nair or uair, neither of which can really be followed up with anything else, but most moves don't want to use them.

It can get some easy damage by using dtilt from the other side of the stage, though, which could come in handy on Final Destination.
Obviously you wouldn't want to use it all the time but if you wanted to play things safe and not chase after someone it would definitely be an option to tic-tack a few %s here and there and, like I said, it would eventually add up. Like Fox's lazers, it would be very low commitment and mostly pointless to reflect if your opponent isn't mindlessly spamming it.
 

meleebrawler

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She gets basically nothing off of grab anyway. There's no point in grabbing except to punish shield.
Her fthrow Tetsukanko is pretty decent at killing, and even if they don't guarantee being put in the air against Bayonetta for any reason is bad.

Her Witch Twist OOS is like a weaker Boost Kick that can followed up with Flip Jump (down Afterburner Kick) if it misses.
 

C0rvus

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I want to experiment with Dragon Fang Shot to cover ledge options. Between the shot and the chomp, and the ability to delay the chomp, I feel it is a strong tool. Honestly it might be Corrin's best move. Kill confirms, neutral, and good damage.
 

FimPhym

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Is that true? I still have almost no idea how that move works. Bayonetta's entire moveset is very confusing and unintuitive. I still haven't figured out how to make the aerial side B go downwards on command, either.
It's super easy. Just input a quarter circle forward motion before pressing b. You can do the divekick out of short hop or right after a double jump or anything.
 

TDK

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So two options are dodge it or pick Link.
And I'm serious, pick Link against Corrin. Bombs and N-Air beat the projectile.
Actually, with Corrin, Ike, Toon Link, and even Shulk in this game, there's almost no reason to pick Link. They've all got better combos, frame data, range, or projectiles than him. And even if you do beat the projectile, Corrin's dragon attacks outrange your sword for the most part, and Corrin's sword attacks are faster than Link's. Even then, it's not that hard to beat out shot with other characters. Link vs Corrin isn't anything special.

Also, I feel like Corrin's best stage would be Dream Land. Platforms + Walls below the stage to pin yourself into for recovery + fairly low ceiling for lots of Corrin's vertical kill options.
 

A2ZOMG

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Bayo is super good for following reasons:

4 frame UpB that converts to big damage and doesn't put her in free fall
Dive kick controls huge space and gets her out of a lot of trouble easily.
Aside from jank, has a strong Fthrow, safe Bair, and TOP 3 EDGEGUARDS to end stocks. Yes, Bayo can edgeguard about as well as Villager and Pikachu.

Nair and Uair are fantastic moves in neutral too.
 

Emblem Lord

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Bayo can just run off the stage and press nair alot of the time. she can make it back onstage pretty easily.

Also her kick specials CAN grab the ledge with proper alignment.
 

Terotrous

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Bat Within activates at the end of a roll, I just had a Pit hit me with the back hit of D-Smash while I was rolling towards him and it was activated.
Someone will have to get exact frame data, then, but there's definitely a window at the end where it doesn't activate, I've gotten hit during it a bunch of times.
 
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Radical Larry

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Actually, with Corrin, Ike, Toon Link, and even Shulk in this game, there's almost no reason to pick Link. They've all got better combos, frame data, range, or projectiles than him. And even if you do beat the projectile, Corrin's dragon attacks outrange your sword for the most part, and Corrin's sword attacks are faster than Link's. Even then, it's not that hard to beat out shot with other characters. Link vs Corrin isn't anything special.

Also, I feel like Corrin's best stage would be Dream Land. Platforms + Walls below the stage to pin yourself into for recovery + fairly low ceiling for lots of Corrin's vertical kill options.
Actually, I'd still pick Link over Shulk...and any of those characters. Besides, Link's the all-around swordsman. His frame data might not be impressive to you, but it's still decent frame data compared to Shulk. Link's Smash Attacks have good start up too, way better than Ike's. And I think I'd prefer a Link who's F-Air may deal 11% damage but more knockback to a character who's F-Air does 13% and less knockback...at the same F14.

Sometimes a little extra power isn't all that bad. If you want, I can show you why I never choose other swordies over Link. :)
 

A2ZOMG

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Bayo can just run off the stage and press nair alot of the time. she can make it back onstage pretty easily.

Also her kick specials CAN grab the ledge with proper alignment.
That Dair and Fair too. I need to change clothes.

I just labbed Bayo spiking Mario with the latter portion of Dair, trading and killing Mario. Not to mention she can live after walkoffs Dair.

And Fair wall of pain is scary.
 

LancerStaff

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Pinning into a wall to jump off it with Corrin is a bad idea. Takes forever to even act out of it in the first place, much less the jump. Kicking onto the stage is okay, but again it takes forever to start the kick. Pinning in general is just useless.
 

jespoke

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One of Corrin's biggest weaknesses to me though are that he/she feels very lacking in solid OoS moves. Usmash has no horizontal range, Up B is slow and doesn't kill well (despite having some invulnerability), and Side B just soars over people's heads at close range. At best, you can swat people away with Fair or Nair, but neither of those things kill. Corrin is definitely weak in shield.


Corrin's biggest weakness of all though is the general lack of moves that send the opponent a good distance horizontally. This is a glaring issue, because it is a bit of a pain to get opponents offstage with Corrin. Ftilt, Dtilt, Fair, Nair, and Dash Attack all send the opponent up. And you want to save Fsmash, Dsmash, DFS, Side B, and Bair for killing the opponent. So good luck for getting the opponent offstage. It also affects Corrin's edgeguarding game, as well. Large blemishes that should be considered when playing him/her.
Have you had any success getting a short Side-B by stabbing the ground immediately at the start? Someone mentioned flicking B > A quickly to get it more consistently. Someone posted a vine in our local group of a Japanese player doing it out of a grab release, but it could potentially also be used as an (admittedly not very fast) option out of sheild.
If people can pull it off consistently, Corrin will have a more consistent horizontal move and an actual throw grab followup
 
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TDK

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Actually, I'd still pick Link over Shulk...and any of those characters. Besides, Link's the all-around swordsman. His frame data might not be impressive to you, but it's still decent frame data compared to Shulk. Link's Smash Attacks have good start up too, way better than Ike's. And I think I'd prefer a Link who's F-Air may deal 11% damage but more knockback to a character who's F-Air does 13% and less knockback...at the same F14.

Sometimes a little extra power isn't all that bad. If you want, I can show you why I never choose other swordies over Link. :)
Love to, but I've only got the 3DS version with all the characters on it :(

If you want to use Link, more power to you. I'm probably biased because I use Corrin and have used Ike and toon link in the past.

Anyways, after a bit more testing with Corrin, sometimes Fair pops you up at an angle for another fair, which then pops you up into an Up-B but I can't actually tell if it's true or not because sometimes it seems diable and other times it works fine.
 

TheHypnotoad

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I haven't been able to test it since I have the 3DS version but I heard a rumor that Villager could pocket Bayo's smash attacks, is this true?
They do have projectile properties, but I think I tried using a reflector against them and it didn't do anything, so I'm not sure.
 

Ffamran

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They do have projectile properties, but I think I tried using a reflector against them and it didn't do anything, so I'm not sure.
Falco's Reflector is considered a projectile, but reflecting it does nothing; Falco just grabs it back. Guessing this how Bayleef's Wicked Weaves / Smashes work.
 

Vipermoon

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By the way, it's impossible to SDI out of Bayonetta's jab or anything of Bayonetta's for that matter. Let me know if you guys are successful.
 

Linkshot

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Falco's Reflector is considered a projectile, but reflecting it does nothing; Falco just grabs it back. Guessing this how Bayleef's Wicked Weaves / Smashes work.
I don't think something has to be blockable with Reflector to be eligible for Pocket. Mr. Saturn isn't Reflectable but can still get tugged by Gravity Pull, right?
 

Ffamran

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By the way, it's impossible to SDI out of Bayonetta's jab or anything of Bayonetta's for that matter. Let me know if you guys are successful.
Speaking of jabs, I'm sitting here regretting that I forgot to save a replay where a Corrin mashed Counter Surge and it activated in between Falco's jab 1 to jab 2... Or was it jab 2 to rapid jab? I wasn't even going for a jab mixup! I was just holding down attack for the full jab to come out...

I don't think something has to be blockable with Reflector to be eligible for Pocket. Mr. Saturn isn't Reflectable but can still get tugged by Gravity Pull, right?
I'm just saying there's moves out there counted as projectiles, but aren't actually projectiles.
 
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Vipermoon

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Speaking of jabs, I'm sitting here regretting that I forgot to save a replay where a Corrin mashed Counter Surge and it activated in between Falco's jab 1 to jab 2... Or was it jab 2 to rapid jab? I wasn't even going for a jab mixup! I was just holding down attack for the full jab to come out...


I'm just saying there's moves out there counted as projectiles, but aren't actually projectiles.
While on the other hand Corrin's rapid jab is extremely easy to SDI out of and punish.

Falco: I believe I've Uaired before Jab 2. It could be they did it slower though but I doubt it lol.
 
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Baby_Sneak

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I'm going to be investigating Bayonetta a bit more, but my impression is that she's very trap and fear tactics based (SF4 Seth from what I understand). Some of her stuff doesn't seem to true combo when I want it to and the day1 inexperienced Bayo yells me "wtf, this feels like I should hit you." This is especially true with rage vs floaties. You have the frame advantage, but your moves are just too slow.

However, the analyst in me takes it a step further. "If they have time to airdodge, I can go up and punish that." So you wait and start a FAir combo/side-b string. Playing a lot of Kamui v Bayonetta, using Kamui NAirs to get out of combos was annoying at the beginning, but then using witch time punished those hard.

Given space, dtilt is really nice (or maybe it's because I'm envious of normal dtilts from playing Mega/Cloud) and sets up for a lot of her kit. Her mobility is nice, she has a Diddy like foxtrot (not as good as Cloud, but still very good) and grounded side-b is a lot like wizard's foot in terms of a burst mobility aggressive poke. I kind of wish the side-b was safer ala MK Dash attack, but whatever.

As said, her rolls are garbage. Bat within is really weird. Her crouch is fantastic, but because of her dtilt's utility it feels like she should have a crawl even though she doesn't.

I really like her, but vs high tiers that can run away from those uncomfortable positions (thinking of Pika mostly), I can see her having a rough time getting adequate reward.

Oh, and bullet climax is amazing vs SH falling aerial approaches and as a landing trap. Theoryland here, as I haven't tried it yet, but you bait someone to land with an airdodge (to avoid getting shot) and then you jump OoS and dive kick them to start a combo.

Going to give her full attention for the next month or so at least, so we'll see where that ends up. (Projectile MegaMan, stage control Cloud, combo mindgame Bayonetta sounds like a wonderful triumvirate for me)
Just for correction's-sake, Seth in SF4 is Mr. Options. He has everything you can think of in the neutral and has ridiculous damage potential and mix up game. His defense though is pretty crappy and his health is trash, so he's also Mr. Flawless (a curse).

Mewtwo is kinda like that, if anyone can clarify (I STILL don't have mewtwo lol).
 
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Locke 06

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Just for correction's-sake, Seth in SF4 is Mr. Options. He has everything you can think of in the neutral and has ridiculous damage potential and mix up game. His defense though is pretty crappy and his health is trash, so he's also Mr. Flawless (a curse).

Mewtwo is kinda like that, if anyone can clarify (I STILL don't have mewtwo lol).
I thought he was "pull you in, now we play the spd/srk game"

Edit:
As a clarification, SPD is a command throw that beats blocking. Srk is shoryuken, that beats pressing a button. When you're in range for both, you face this dilemma. Because Seth has low health, he can't play this game all the time. That's my perception of that part of Seth's character. I don't know that much about SF4.
 
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ItsRainingGravy

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Have you had any success getting a short Side-B by stabbing the ground immediately at the start? Someone mentioned flicking B > A quickly to get it more consistently. Someone posted a vine in our local group of a Japanese player doing it out of a grab release, but it could potentially also be used as an (admittedly not very fast) option out of sheild.
If people can pull it off consistently, Corrin will have a more consistent horizontal move and an actual throw grab followup
Yes, actually. I can consistently pin the ground 100% of the time by rolling my thumb over the special button over to the attack button. I've also learned that there's an in-game hint that lets players know about this, so it is an intentional technique.

The grab release follow-up is not guaranteed, but it certainly makes for a neat surprise. Just as long as you don't spam it/make it predictable throughout the match. It can be power-shielded.

As for an OoS...not so good, because Corrin's shorthop goes higher than the Side B's hop. So while you can immediately pin the ground with Dragon Lunge on the ground, you can't pin the ground if you jump OoS. And I've pressed it as fast as possible.

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In other news, I like the Street Fighter referencing in regards to Bayonetta. What I find funny about it is that you can actually Tiger Knee (?) her aerial Side B immediately off of the ground by inputting a Hadoken motion before you jump. Reminds me of Cammy from SF or Jill from MvC.
 
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Vipermoon

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Really? I thought jab 1 transitioned to jab 2 really fast, presumably so it's not safe to crouch under.
The second sentence is talking about Falco not sure if you know that.
 

NachoOfCheese

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Yes, actually. I can consistently pin the ground 100% of the time by rolling my thumb over the special button over to the attack button. I've also learned that there's an in-game hint that lets players know about this, so it is an intentional technique.

The grab release follow-up is not guaranteed, but it certainly makes for a neat surprise. Just as long as you don't spam it/make it predictable throughout the match. It can be power-shielded.

As for an OoS...not so good, because Corrin's shorthop goes higher than the Side B's hop. So while you can immediately pin the ground with Dragon Lunge on the ground, you can't pin the ground if you jump OoS. And I've pressed it as fast as possible.
Agreed. More than anything, I find Dragon Lunge to be a great long range punish tool, or a great move to cover Bair.
Scenario: You space a Bair, opponent powershields, but you buffer an instant Side B and they're pinned.
Other scenario: You're fighting a Villager. Lloyd rocket comes out at mid range. Tipper Dragon Lunge.

His mid range punish game is a major selling point.
 
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