3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[SaltyKracka]

Everyone is arguing about DACUS/ dash attack + upsmash, about the techs that disappeared...and i'm just here happy, that tripping didn't come back. Thanks sakurai.

We haven't had a reason to SAKURAIIIIII yet.

Yet.

Panda may disagree.

 

[Judo777]

I hate everyone right now

LOL this is too funny!

For those who don't know DACUS is Dash Attack Cancel Up Smash. It requires to execute a dash attack, then an usmash very quickly before the dash attack comes out canceling it. With Sheik you should slide about half the length of FD WHILE CHARGING the smash. It is extremely difficult (I have heard from different sources actually completely impossible) to do on the 3DS. So if you don't have a GC controller hard wired to your 3DS I don't believe you if you say its gone. If it is possible with the 3DS you had better be a veteran player, or have spent 10 hours practicing or I still don' believe you lol.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I hate everyone right now

Anyone who has the New 3DS can DACUS. It's entirely possible that testing has been done to determine whether or not DACUS got patched out.

 

[D-idara]

Does anyone have any Samus data? I haven't seen any of her, has she received some much-needed buffs?

 

[Crven]

LOL this is too funny!

For those who don't know DACUS is Dash Attack Cancel Up Smash. It requires to execute a dash attack, then an usmash very quickly before the dash attack comes out canceling it. With Sheik you should slide about half the length of FD WHILE CHARGING the smash. It is extremely difficult (I have heard from different sources actually completely impossible) to do on the 3DS. So if you don't have a GC controller hard wired to your 3DS I don't believe you if you say its gone. If it is possible with the 3DS you had better be a veteran player, or have spent 10 hours practicing or I still don' believe you lol.

It isn't hard at all. If you go into training mode and switch it to 1/4 speed it is extremely easy. You just have to dash, input down smash, then up smash quickly and you will get a DACUS. Not only that, but because it is 1/4 speed you can visually watch the character go into the Dash attack animation and then go into an Up smash. It is not a hard thing to test.

 

[M@v]

LOL this is too funny!

For those who don't know DACUS is Dash Attack Cancel Up Smash. It requires to execute a dash attack, then an usmash very quickly before the dash attack comes out canceling it. With Sheik you should slide about half the length of FD WHILE CHARGING the smash. It is extremely difficult (I have heard from different sources actually completely impossible) to do on the 3DS. So if you don't have a GC controller hard wired to your 3DS I don't believe you if you say its gone. If it is possible with the 3DS you had better be a veteran player, or have spent 10 hours practicing or I still don' believe you lol.

You can make it easier to do on 3ds if you go to training mode and slow the speed down. Its good for just seeing if it works or not.

 

[G-Dub]

I just assumed that DACUS was just up smashing with a dash since you're not doing a dash attack and that it looks like it's overriding the dash attack. Maybe there should be an official term for dash up smash like DUP or RUP (Running Up Smash). Personally, DACUS should have been called a sliding up smash and the process is DACUS. Complicated, but if people knew that SUP (Sliding Up Smash) involved a DACUS (Dash Attack Cancel Up Smash) and that DUP/RUP were running up smashes, it wouldn't have caused confusion.

Im sorry, I have to ask. Why would anyone ever want dacus to be called a "sliding up smash" when the term dacus explicitly and perfectly describes what a DACUS is....

 

[Ffamran]

Im sorry, I have to ask. Why would anyone ever want dacus to be called a "sliding up smash" when the term dacus explicitly and perfectly describes what a DACUS is....

I don't know, but we should have a term for a running/dashing up smash for the sake of differentiating the two.

 

[Thinkaman]

Not sure if anyone said this or not, but a huge change ive noticed right off the bat is that Marths METEOR smash has a slightly bigger hit box, so its easier to connect meteor smashes. before it had to be dead on at the tip, now its slightly more of the blade.

I cannot replicate this. Side-by-side, I see the same results and spacings.

@Reserved
@ Thinkaman
Can i have shulk first hit of 2 hit moves working better because less kb on first hit confirmation?

Hard to tell; can some set up a use case for me to test clearly?

Anyways, so far for Yoshi.


- Slightly slower start-up on NeutralB.
- Slightly more ending lag on Dash Attack.
- Slightly more landing lag on Dair.
- Yoshi can no longer do slope shenanigans with Down B
(unconfirmed/Mentioned) Neutral B longer range?

All confirmed; except the last one, deconfirmed..

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ Thinkaman

@Reserved

@ LordFluffy

Things that would be nice to have confirmation =

Gannondorf:
Aerial landing lag on Fair decreased?
Faster startup on grounded down B?

WFT:
Deep breathing is faster?

Greninja:
How much is the endlag increased for Usmash?

Wario:
Is grab release actually changed?

Shulk:
Fully extended Fsmash against a light character or jumping opponent (especially up-angled Fsmash): Any difference in the knockback of the first hit?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Man dis list isn't even in alphabetical order!
Anyways, so far for Yoshi.


- Slightly slower start-up on NeutralB.
- Slightly more ending lag on Dash Attack.
- Slightly more landing lag on Dair.
- Yoshi can no longer do slope shenanigans with Down B
(unconfirmed/Mentioned) Neutral B longer range?

i'll fix that later

 

[KERO]

Alright, for people testing frame perfect stuff (or at the very least, super precise things), here's something I discovered a week or two ago. In Training Mode, spawn a Timer and have a computer grab it in 1x speed. Make sure the Timer has slowed you down. Then, go to 1/4x (Hold L) and briefly hold L. Finally go to 1/4x speed. You will then be in 1/8x speed rather than just 1/4x speed. Just make sure to go left from 1x instead of right to get to 1/4x (hold L) immediately and then go left to more times to get to 1/4x speed. Happy nerf/buff finding. For reference regarding the amount of precision it gives you, I was able to do Greninja's DACUS via this method back in v1.0.3. Can't anymore, but clearly Samurai's already heard enough regarding DACUS issues.

 

[SonicZeroX]

@ Thinkaman

@Reserved

@ LordFluffy

Things that would be nice to have confirmation =

Gannondorf:
Aerial landing lag on Fair decreased?
Faster startup on grounded down B?

WFT:
Deep breathing is faster?

Greninja:
How much is the endlag increased for Usmash?

Wario:
Is grab release actually changed?

Shulk:
Fully extended Fsmash against a light character or jumping opponent (especially up-angled Fsmash): Any difference in the knockback of the first hit?

Wario's grab release is definitely changed. Like it's not even close.

 

[Thinkaman]

Something I can confirm about Ganon. His down throw was given more knockback (not less ending lag, as it was stated previously). It is more possible for him to now carry out followups during later percentages.

Confirmed incorrect side-by-side; they are the same.

So if you don't have a GC controller hard wired to your 3DS I don't believe you if you say its gone. If it is possible with the 3DS you had better be a veteran player, or have spent 10 hours practicing or I still don' believe you lol.

To beat a dead horse, you can force a 2-frame DACUS in training mode "frame advance" quarter speed.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

Has anyone noticed some minor changes to some maps? Gaur Plains, for example, seems to have a higher blast ceiling.

 

[Spiderfog]

Just tested my 1.0.4 alongside my brother's 1.0.3. I tested Greninja, Falco, and Mario. These were all tested on Mario:

- Greninja's Shadow Sneak now does 12% instead of 10%
- Falco's twirling attack when you hold A now does 1/2% per hit instead of 1% per hit.
- Falco's finisher now does 3% instead of 5%.
- I don't know if all the hits are connecting, but the most damage I can get with Falco's Fire Bird is 21% instead of 31%.
- Mario's Down Smash now does 14% instead of 13.98% when sourspot is fully charged. Sweetspot is the same.
- Mario's F-Air now does 12% when sourspotted instead of 10%. Sweetspot is the same.
- Mario's Fireball now does 4% from far away. Still does 5% up close though.
- Mario's Cape now does 7% instead of 4%.
- Mario Finale now does 32% instead of 31%.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I don't know, but we should have a term for a running/dashing up smash for the sake of differentiating the two.

It's called... a running upsmash. Hyphen upsmash if you're feeling fancy, and no I'm not entirely sure why. If you cancel the run with a jump and input an upsmash during the jumpsquat frames, that's a jump canceled upsmash. If you do a dash attack but quickly cancel it into an upsmash, that's a dash attack canceled upsmash.

Descriptive names are awesome! Please use them accurately! Thank you! Exclamation marks!

 

[Nat Goméz]

Well at least Mac's game haven't changed too much, or actually it haven't changed at all. Fast hard hiter with super armor on smashes that go through everything. Rapid jab now does 4% less than usual, that's a little sad but not so harsh and understandable for a 1 frame move that did all the combo work for you.

Ftilt unchanged, happy they didn't changed his best move imo. A poke, a kill move, and a fast racking damage move that's safe on block if spaced, untouched.

KO punch is now unvectorable, that's nice. Still, it just KOes Bowser at 30% like before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Os9AWCJRI

Comparison of Mac's air side b before and after, it's just like 20% less than what it was before, not such a big deal.

I'm happy that they didn't changed him too much, or did any big nerfs too him.

I'm also happy of having combo throws with Marth.

 

[akasheo]

I cannot replicate this. Side-by-side, I see the same results and spacings.



Hard to tell; can some set up a use case for me to test clearly?



All confirmed; except the last one, deconfirmed..

dam,i swear i notced the difference when the rate of my spikes went up dramatically. but if im tripping out, i guess i just got better ahahaha

 

[Shaya]

Re: Marth

Throw changes may not have happened.

Marth's down air 'spikes' centre body/around his legs in previous patches. My general rule is you kick people to spike with Marth, rather than aim for the tip of the sword, haha. So I think on that one, you just didn't notice before

[In brawl, when the sword reaches straight down below him, he gets a single frame of a super large hitbox that spikes; I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's here, hence legs spike, rather than sword]

 

[Blue Banana]

Good to know that she can't absorb purples anymore lol. Now for Sakurai to fix his smashes.

I tested it out in Training on 1.0.4, and Rosalina can still pull in purples with Down B.

Fsmash range was noted by another user on the Olimar boards early on. He used BF as a way to measure distance. From there we can go in an see the change in difference. It does look to affect all colors as well. For Pikmin Throw I hadn't actually timed it previously, but looked at the difference in damage of ticks and how much damage accumulated before they fell off. These were done on a 0% Mario.

I took an in-game screenshot of Olimar using Fsmash from the left edge of Battlefield Omega in 1.0.3. Then I took another screenshot in 1.0.4 with the exact same conditions and compared the two, as screenshots are not affected by patch changes. From what I took, Fsmash seems to go about the same distance as before.

As for Pikmin Throw...

 

[Virgule]

So i might have something to add to test :
Some fox players (myself included) found the B-air to hit faster than in 1.0.3 but the difference is really hard to tell without two console side to side, it just feels smoother.There might be some other things about fox but B-air seems important enough to be looked up imo.

 

[PikachuMexicano]

Robin's Bair feels faster and i am able to hit with it at a lower height. Can someone confirm this?

 

[Berserker.]

To be more precise with the f-air buff
http://gfycat.com/AromaticFarAlligatorgar

I put it in 60 fps and went through it frame by frame in sony vegas. Lets say at frame 0 both don't have their shield up. At frame 1 1.04 puts his shield up and at frame 7 1.03 puts his shield up.

Shulk:
Fully extended Fsmash against a light character or jumping opponent (especially up-angled Fsmash): Any difference in the knockback of the first hit?

It still whiffs against jumping opponents (both forward and up-angled)

It fully connects against light characters because of the zero knockback people were talking about

Edit: Oh wait. I got one to connect against a mid air puff. OKAY, now they're all connecting.

I don't know what I did wrong at first but all the angled f-smashes I did against jumping puff and mario are connecting. Maybe there's a specific point where it won't hit. Not sure. Needs more testing

 

[Thinkaman]

Gannondorf:
Aerial landing lag on Fair decreased? NOPE
Faster startup on grounded down B? NOPE

WFT:
Deep breathing is faster? NOPE

Greninja:
How much is the endlag increased for Usmash? Alot. Like, ~10 frames.

Wario:
Is grab release actually changed? Absolutely. No question, super obvious.

Shulk:
Fully extended Fsmash against a light character or jumping opponent (especially up-angled Fsmash): Any difference in the knockback of the first hit? Yes, but it's hard to quantify; the hitboxes do more damage. Not really sure what I'm looking for here.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ Thinkaman
Changes that would make Shulk's 2 hits more consistent.

And can you quantify the changes to Wario's grab release?

 

[Ffamran]

It's called... a running upsmash. Hyphen upsmash if you're feeling fancy, and no I'm not entirely sure why. If you cancel the run with a jump and input an upsmash during the jumpsquat frames, that's a jump canceled upsmash. If you do a dash attack but quickly cancel it into an upsmash, that's a dash attack canceled upsmash.

Descriptive names are awesome! Please use them accurately! Thank you! Exclamation marks!

I like you. You're specific.

 

[Rojo Espada]

Oh balls, hold on. Link's grab range has been increased now?
No more of that claw touches the guy but doesn't grab nonsense?

Halle****inglujah

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just tested my 1.0.4 alongside my brother's 1.0.3. I tested Greninja, Falco, and Mario. These were all tested on Mario:

- Greninja's Shadow Sneak now does 12% instead of 10%
- Falco's twirling attack when you hold A now does 1/2% per hit instead of 1% per hit.
- Falco's finisher now does 3% instead of 5%.
- I don't know if all the hits are connecting, but the most damage I can get with Falco's Fire Bird is 21% instead of 31%.
- Mario's Down Smash now does 14% instead of 13.98% when sourspot is fully charged. Sweetspot is the same.
- Mario's F-Air now does 12% when sourspotted instead of 10%. Sweetspot is the same.
- Mario's Fireball now does 4% from far away. Still does 5% up close though.
- Mario's Cape now does 7% instead of 4%.
- Mario Finale now does 32% instead of 31%.

thinkaman go confirm these for us <3

 

[akasheo]

Re: Marth

Throw changes may not have happened.

Marth's down air 'spikes' centre body/around his legs in previous patches. My general rule is you kick people to spike with Marth, rather than aim for the tip of the sword, haha. So I think on that one, you just didn't notice before

[In brawl, when the sword reaches straight down below him, he gets a single frame of a super large hitbox that spikes; I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's here, hence legs spike, rather than sword]

mmaayyyybbeee. now i feel stupid, but im glad my spike game is up.

 

[Thinkaman]

So i might have something to add to test :
Some fox players (myself included) found the B-air to hit faster than in 1.0.3 but the difference is really hard to tell without two console side to side, it just feels smoother.There might be some other things about fox but B-air seems important enough to be looked up imo.

Same.

Robin's Bair feels faster and i am able to hit with it at a lower height. Can someone confirm this?

Same.

 

[Ffamran]

Oh balls, hold on. Link's grab range has been increased now?
No more of that claw touches the guy but doesn't grab nonsense?

Halle****inglujah

Yeah, that was shenanigans. It's like the claw was just a ghost-hand-thing.

 

[SonicZeroX]

@ Thinkaman
Changes that would make Shulk's 2 hits more consistent.

And can you quantify the changes to Wario's grab release?

He flies out farther horizontally so that it's impossible to follow up with anything.

 

[Shaya]

mmaayyyybbeee. now i feel stupid, but im glad my spike game is up.

I proclaimed infinite marth greatness at his sudden diddy kong down throw, how wrong twas I :<

 

[LordFluffy]

@ Thinkaman

@Reserved

@ LordFluffy

Things that would be nice to have confirmation =

Gannondorf:
Aerial landing lag on Fair decreased?
Faster startup on grounded down B?

WFT:
Deep breathing is faster?

Greninja:
How much is the endlag increased for Usmash?

Wario:
Is grab release actually changed?

Shulk:
Fully extended Fsmash against a light character or jumping opponent (especially up-angled Fsmash): Any difference in the knockback of the first hit?

Can confirm Wario's grab release is changed.
Deep breathing appears to have no notable speed increase. so saying no on that.
Still testing but looks like greninja needs to wait the full duration of the animation before acting. about 10 frames
Ganondorf has the same startup on grounded down b and same landing lag on Fair

 

[Supreme Dirt]

this is why i tried to make such a point to actually explain what a DACUS is because for some reason a lot of people don't even know the difference.

when people kept saying dacus isn't in, i already knew they were talking about dash up smashing because that legitimately did get changed and is harder. we have no real way of knowing if dacus isn't in until wii u version.

I have tried to dacus repeatedly on the Wii U version and been unable to, unless the input is different from Brawl it IS gone.

Take this from someone able to consistently DACUS with Sheik in Brawl, it's gone.

 

[Thinkaman]

Marth f-throw is the same.

 

[Shaya]

Thank you~

 

[Captain Norris]

so were Marth and Lucina's Spikes buffed, or just Marth's? Cause that would differentiate them.

 

[Ffamran]

I have tried to dacus repeatedly on the Wii U version and been unable to, unless the input is different from Brawl it IS gone.

Take this from someone able to consistently DACUS with Sheik in Brawl, it's gone.

Now I'm wondering why they removed it since DACUS doesn't break the game in any way if everyone can perform it and take advantage from it. It's not like Character X has a wonky hitbox or a move that's too powerful or too fast to react or too spammy.