3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Adrian Marin]

Wario's forward tilt seems to do 1% more damage, so that should be added to the OP. I also don't know if it's just me, but I feel that the Wheelie seems to have slightly more knockback.

 

[LancerStaff]

Falcon, Pit, and Dark Pit all have a similar line: Subactions windbox unknown parameter changed 0x3F -> 0x1F

I'm guessing this move is their side B, which apparently has a windbox and now it has been reduced?

Well, the angels have windboxes in two moves: Breezy Flight (custom), and Guardian Orbitars. Although it's an astute observation seeing as they all have similar Sspecials, but no noticeable windboxes on 'em. Perhaps the actual attack is triggered by a windbox connecting with the opponent?

 

[Udlr Customs]

Did Shulk reeealy need all those buffs?

 

[LancerStaff]

Did Shulk reeealy need all thoe buffs?

Proooobably.

 

[Cherubas]

I don't think he did. I think they just realized that only Japan cares about Shulk so they overbuffed him.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Proooobably.

Nooooot

 

[LancerStaff]

Nooooot

Are you suuuuuure?

Okay, I'll quit.

 

[Wyattkins]

Are you suuuuuure?

maaaaaaaaaybe

 

[jamesdp5]

Wow i can't belive they nefted dr mario, if anything he needed to be buffed, however he does feel a bit faster to me

 

[Smash Bro]

Shulk definitely did not need buffs. I still can't get over how overly-good his counter is. There is no escape...

Pikachu, on the other hand...yeah. I'm so pleased with his buffs. Haven't had a chance to play with this update yet, but more potential for kill moves = happy me. Now, if only they'd let me QAC...

 

[Terotrous]

Did Shulk reeealy need all thoe buffs?

Shulk used Shadow Eye, which caused people to ignore him while buffing his base stats.

Keep your aggro on Shulk, people! We can't let him keep getting better!

 

[Shaya]

I'm pretty sure custom specials are in those data files, although maybe not all of them.

I was able to find all instances/customs of shieldbreaker on Marth, including one of them having an aerial instance.
But they only cover the 'release' of the charge, not the charging part itself (which is like an 11 frame animation).

I'm not going to try to decrypt/find dancing blade or variations there of in there, but I believe some/a lot are. Found Dolphin Slash / Crescent Slash too.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ SamuraiPanda I don't know if someone already posted this: Luma still can attack while Rosalina is grabbed.

http://youtu.be/gC9UGqMPT2s?t=17m9s

EDIT: Ah, I may have confused "being grabbed" with "being thrown". Is that the distinction?

Bingo you got it.

@ SamuraiPanda
Peach can N-air lock as before - it has not been changed in any way.

@Thinkaman
How are you viewing the character script files? I'm familiar with modding Brawl characters and I recognize a lot of the sub-actions, so I may be of some help if it's needed.

Ima need some confirmation on this: can peach still 0-death peeps?

@ SamuraiPanda @Aoi Inu / blue dog

Let me handle changes in the op from here pls but I'm at work at so give me 6 hours to update the op

Sir yes sir!

 

[Xiao-Xiao]

But the best player in Japan mains Diddy right now?

 

[DarkKiru]

Did the Dr. Mario change where Dair had less lag on it get deconfirmed or something? I ask because I noticed its not up there anymore.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm pretty sure it has less lag...or is that just placebo? No, I'm POSITIVE it has less landing lag. OP gotta update dat.

 

[Shaya]

But the best player in Japan mains Diddy right now?

But WiiU would've been in print a month ago at the latest.
If they did take japan opinions/words, it would've been the initial ones primarily. Which, IIRC, had Rosalina Sheik, and as third... Yoshi? Or Greninja or something? It's been a while.

Which is dumb/crazy, that list had Ike and Shulk as bottom tier, yet neither of which seemed helpless/not tuned well enough for competitive use.
Losing a little tiny bit of faith here towards Sakurai here, unfortunately

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Made a few changes to my post on the previous page.

Also, Greninja's Fair bkb is incorrectly labled as 86 in the OP when it should be 84. Someone should probably double-check values in the OP.

 

[SonicZeroX]

But WiiU would've been in print a month ago at the latest.
If they did take japan opinions/words, it would've been the initial ones primarily. Which, IIRC, had Rosalina Sheik, and as third... Yoshi? Or Greninja or something? It's been a while.

Which is dumb/crazy, that list had Ike and Shulk as bottom tier, yet neither of which seemed helpless/not tuned well enough for competitive use.
Losing a little tiny bit of faith here towards Sakurai here, unfortunately

You mean this?

http://i.imgur.com/FsYIK1x.png

 

[Shaya]

Well the biggest buffs we see are for Ike, Shulk and Ganondorf out of everyone.
While MK was buffed (he really needed it); funnily enough the hitbox changes now means he can up air/down air to BEAT THINGS.

The biggest nerfs we saw were to Sheik and Rosalina, fair changes to Yoshi, although I think his main issue is too high damage per hit (1% cuts would be enough to align me to be less abusive in contrast to others). Greninja kinda gutted and ZSS not really touched.

At the least I'm sure Sakurai had dominating Greninja wifi stats to go off.

Perhaps Sakurai just felt the top 4 needed tuning down, and knew that Palutena wasn't that bad (although she got small buffs anyway); the bottom 4 got buffs.

 

[Iron Kraken]

You mean this?

http://i.imgur.com/FsYIK1x.png

The Japanese Smash community failed us with the Diddy placement.

 

[NairWizard]

The Japanese Smash community failed us with the Diddy placement.

Peach, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Robin are all also shocking placements.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Metaknight is over donkey kong.

What in the 9 hells is this blasphemous travesty?!

Edit: and ness?! Yo **** the land of the rising sun.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Made a few changes to my post on the previous page.

Also, Greninja's Fair bkb is incorrectly labled as 86 in the OP when it should be 84. Someone should probably double-check values in the OP.

Yes I am changing the op when I get the chance.

Getting a haircut and then reformatting the entire thing, fixing small errors and swapping the values we think are bkb to kbg

 

[Tagxy]

But WiiU would've been in print a month ago at the latest.
If they did take japan opinions/words, it would've been the initial ones primarily. Which, IIRC, had Rosalina Sheik, and as third... Yoshi? Or Greninja or something? It's been a while.

Which is dumb/crazy, that list had Ike and Shulk as bottom tier, yet neither of which seemed helpless/not tuned well enough for competitive use.
Losing a little tiny bit of faith here towards Sakurai here, unfortunately

If you had to make adjustments one month ago for the wii U though, wouldnt you play it safe? Rosalina and Sheik were out the door good. Well maybe thats too optimistic, but I feel Id rather choose the safe option of no changes. Characters may have fallen below Ike, Ganon and Shulk but it was also very apparent they needed a bit of help here and there. I wouldnt exactly consider any of them too good now, but maybe its too early too tell.

And at others while its possible they considered opinions from Japanese players I doubt that was their greatest consideration.

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

You mean this?

http://i.imgur.com/FsYIK1x.png

So many underestimated characters in this list...Just looking at the last 3 tiers show how awful this list is. Luigi, kirby, and shulk are at E tier? Are you kidding me? Little mac seems like he belongs in D tier in IMO and how the hell are captain falcon and Mario only at C tier? Those two definitely belong in B tier.

 

[NairWizard]

Well the biggest buffs we see are for Ike, Shulk and Ganondorf out of everyone.
While MK was buffed (he really needed it); funnily enough the hitbox changes now means he can up air/down air to BEAT THINGS.

The biggest nerfs we saw were to Sheik and Rosalina, fair changes to Yoshi, although I think his main issue is too high damage per hit (1% cuts would be enough to align me to be less abusive in contrast to others). Greninja kinda gutted and ZSS not really touched.

At the least I'm sure Sakurai had dominating Greninja wifi stats to go off.

Perhaps Sakurai just felt the top 4 needed tuning down, and knew that Palutena wasn't that bad (although she got small buffs anyway); the bottom 4 got buffs.

Or maybe this is his clever way of getting us to pay a little bit less attention to the top characters and a little bit more to the bottom.

...Which is exactly what is happening.

 

[Shaya]

If you had to make adjustments one month ago for the wii U though, wouldnt you play it safe? Rosalina and Sheik were out the door good. Well maybe thats too optimistic, but I feel Id rather choose the safe option of no changes. Characters may have fallen below Ike, Ganon and Shulk but it was also very apparent they needed a bit of help here and there. I wouldnt exactly consider any of them too good now, but maybe its too early too tell.

And at others while its possible they considered opinions from Japanese players I doubt that was their greatest consideration.

Well as I see it, it looks like the top 4 and bottom 4 of that japanese tier list were focused on the most out of anyone else.
I can respect this. Like, take an initial relatively well thought out list (for the time/observations), likelihood of the top X or bottom X actually needing adjustments would be pretty high.

It seems to me that there's a good chance this 1 week in tier list (it was just 1 week in or less I'm pretty sure) was considered.

 

[---]

You mean this?

http://i.imgur.com/FsYIK1x.png

Kinda surprised by some of that considering the fair amount of diversity I've seen in Clash Tournament videos and decent players online. Am just glad that Mega Man was buffed overall.

Man I can't wait for APEX.

 

[Shaya]

Guys, that list was like, a week within the original 3DS release. Of course it isn't accurate anymore.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Guys, that list was like, a week within the original 3DS release. Of course it isn't accurate anymore.

Of course. Which is why I hope this isn't the last balance patch

 

[Pikabunz]

I think this might be the most recent Japanese tier list.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's ok they buffed zeldas utilt this will save her

 

[Iron Kraken]

I think this might be the most recent Japanese tier list.

And this was in version 1.0.3. In 1.0.4 Diddy lost nothing, while every single other S-tier and A-tier lost something.

I think, at the moment, Diddy truly is the only S-tier character.

 

[Tagxy]

Simmer down thats not a definitive tier list. Granted I do think most people believe Diddy will be sitting pretty after this update.

No love lost for the swordsman in Japan. Guess thats good news for the ones over here.

If Sonic, Diddy, and perhaps Lucario were toned down a bit, I dont think this game would need to be touched for years aside from a couple game fixes and buffs here and there.

 

[Iron Kraken]

Simmer down thats not a definitive tier list. Granted I do think most people believe Diddy will be sitting pretty after this update.

No love lost for the swordsman in Japan. Guess thats good news for the ones over here.

If Sonic, Diddy, and perhaps Lucario were toned down a bit, I dont think this game would need to be touched for years aside from a couple buffs here and there.

Haha of course it's not definitive. I mean, they have no separation between Marth and Lucina on the list. The placement of Sonic, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff among others also seem quite a bit off.

I'm just saying that, according to this list (which, perhaps, is a list that would catch the attention of Mr. Sakurai), Diddy would probably stand alone if it was updated for 1.0.4. And I think that part would actually be accurate.

Sonic, Diddy, and perhaps Lucario... huh. You hit the nail on the head with what I would like to see fixed. Although I think it's possible that Lucario's recovery nerf was enough, despite his aura mechanic being absurd.

 

[NairWizard]

Haha of course it's not definitive. I mean, they have no separation between Marth and Lucina on the list. The placement of Sonic, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff among others also seem quite a bit off.

I'm just saying that, according to this list (which, perhaps, is a list that would catch the attention of Mr. Sakurai), Diddy would probably stand alone if it was updated for 1.0.4. And I think that part would actually be accurate.

Sonic, Diddy, and perhaps Lucario... huh. You hit the nail on the head with what I would like to see fixed. Although I think it's possible that Lucario's recovery nerf was enough, despite his aura mechanic being absurd.

loss of vertical vectoring was a huge nerf to Lucario. He's much worse in many matchups now, because his own vertical KO power isn't that impressive, but he dies much earlier off the top

 

[Feryn Hyrk]

Why there is no Mii Brawler, Mii Swordsmasn and Mii Gunner on the 2 tier lists posted?

Do these tier lists took in account the characters with their best customs?

 

[Iron Kraken]

Why there is no Mii Brawler, Mii Swordsmasn and Mii Gunner on the 2 tier lists posted?

Do these tier lists took in account the characters with their best customs?

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but I don't think they take into account custom moves. The Japanese smash scene seems to generally be against them.

 

[Jabejazz]

>Game releases

>Tier list released two weeks later

>People shocked at inaccuracies

??????

I think, at the moment, Diddy truly is the only S-tier character.

Sanic's the name, jank's his game.