2.6 impressions so far

[ItalianStallion]

The issue I take with it has nothing to do with its effect on recovery. Mixing up your recovery option doesn't make him able to apply pressure above the stage. That's what the real utility is in being able to jump after ending the glide- being able to use it after any of Charizard's numerous launchers to finish up with a strong read mid air: Superjump, glide, wait, double jump read for hopefully an off-the-top kill. Forcing a more predictable set of followups, of those that still exist, makes for a less rewarding set of reads and feels extremely janky from a gamefeel standpoint.

Dash attack buff is nice though.

That is my issue with it as well. Gliding after a super jump (We're assuming the opponent DI'ed well) means you can follow their DI and wait for them to come down and then use a jump to space out a fair for a kill (Or something similar to that). Taking away the ability to jump after gliding means he won't be able to do as much against DI.

 

[cmart]

As you noticed, Withdraw can now pivot off-stage while turning. It has a unique trajectory that he can't otherwise achieve, and a generous window to cancel and recover if you do it by accident. That does mean you can't use the turnaround to hug an edge anymore though.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'll just wait for the change list since I care way more about mobility at a glance than move properties and seemingly mobility nerfs like this stand out. I'm sure Squirtle got other stuff effecting how he can followup or how moves hit.

And Metaknight's empyhop is fantastic. He feels like a flying Fox with his ability to fake and bait dumb reactions.

 

[Oro?!]

Character's being good or bad is not always the reason why we touch aspects of characters whether it's through buffs or nerfs. Moves being toxic/polarizing is definitely a key factor, like Sonic spins, regardless of whether you thought he was beatable or omg broken PMBR pls nerf BibleThump. All of the changes that we ship out, we believe to be beneficial to the health of PM's metagame in some way. So when everyone starts throwing insults because Charizard might have slight stat tweaks or slight mechanical tweaks, know that it might not have been because we thought Charizard was too good or not good enough. It could have been because we believe it will make Charizard a more complete feeling character as well as a more healthy one, even if it doesn't feel like it in the short term. This applies to every character the PMBR deals with, so no, Sonic or x character is not special. That's all I wanted to say before a changelist comes out or people continue complaining (or praising) changes.

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

Could anyone else: run off the ledge > b reverse needles > shield cancel > ledge grab to edgehog with sheik before 2.6? I've only been able to do it in 2.6

 

[Shwagzamaxima]

>wizzrobe single handedly breaking a game so bad it needed a patch
OH WOW. THE TEARS, THEY ARE DELICIOUS.
In other news, did they add turbo? Make any changes to the engine?

 

[ItalianStallion]

Character's being good or bad is not always the reason why we touch aspects of characters whether it's through buffs or nerfs. Moves being toxic/polarizing is definitely a key factor, like Sonic spins, regardless of whether you thought he was beatable or omg broken PMBR pls nerf BibleThump. All of the changes that we ship out, we believe to be beneficial to the health of PM's metagame in some way. So when everyone starts throwing insults because Charizard might have slight stat tweaks or slight mechanical tweaks, know that it might not have been because we thought Charizard was too good or not good enough. It could have been because we believe it will make Charizard a more complete feeling character as well as a more healthy one, even if it doesn't feel like it in the short term. This applies to every character the PMBR deals with, so no, Sonic or x character is not special. That's all I wanted to say before a changelist comes out or people continue complaining (or praising) changes.

I understand your point. However, I don't think there have been too many insults thrown around in this thread, unless I missed them.

 

[MonkUnit]

Turbo is not in 2.6. Turbo will be in 3.0.

 

[\Apples]

I'm pleased with most of what I've seen here. I like that most changes made to recoveries have been slight nerfs, I felt that the abundance of good recoveries in P:M made it feel childish in comparison to Melee. Wario's aerial sideB is a welcome change, even as a Wario main. His recovery was already linear but still really solid and I think this is great. Sonic actually feels like a reasonable character (also coming from a Sonic player), he actually feels like he belongs in this game now and I think he's still very strong. No more airdodging after UpB is solid. Link feels much more comfortable and no longer feels overshadowed by his toon version and I really like how Metaknight was done.

The Diddy nerfs I feel were a bit harsh, and I would have liked to see ZSS' recovery tamed a little bit. But thus far, I welcome 2.6's changes. 2.5 was just getting to a point where my playgroup and I were feeling that character matchups were often too important of a factor of the metagame and I'm hoping to see that flattened out a little bit as we settle into 2.6.

Oh also, whoever did work on Dedede, props. His changes were subtle and perfect. He was given exactly the tweaks I felt he needed and no more. He doesn't feel like a top contender at all but now he feels much more playable and that's exactly where I feel his design should put him.

 

[ItalianStallion]

Oh also, whoever did work on Dedede, props. His changes were subtle and perfect. He was given exactly the tweaks I felt he needed and no more. He doesn't feel like a top contender at all but now he feels much more playable and that's exactly where I feel his design should put him.

You feel like DDD's design should not make him a top contender??

 

[Spiffykins]

Lucario feels really weird. I'll have to wait for the changelist but almost everything feels a little different. I smell a few nerfs here and there.

Wolf's fair seems to have a little more end lag, and his up air feels different somehow. Might just be the animation.

Lucas' new dair and bair are perfect. He can drill shine now, which is pretty hilarious. His bair spike is absurd, I never thought Lucas would get a spike, let alone one this strong. Best of all, it replaced his failtastic 2.5 bair.

MK is dope, 'nuff said.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Lucario feels nerfed. Force Palm seems a bit faster now, and his f-tilt animation is cool.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I'm a little disappointed that Ike's Quickdraw up-smash slide is gone, though I'm willing to believe it was for the best.

Overall, 2.6 feels amazing. I have yet to find a change that I didn't like or felt was justified. Great work PMBR!

 

[standardtoaster]

the slide is still there idk what you're talking about

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

MetaKnight Down Air is AMAZING! It can be punished if your not careful with your aim but I LOVE how well it sets up for combos. Speaking of that, the way he can mix up his specials so well mid combo blows my mind. Funny thing is, he still doesn't feel OP. You actually need to be careful when playing as him, and without momentum canceling and ridiculous Special Move range he IS a worthy, but not overly cheap, opponent. Keep it up guys! (Just be careful with the "tweaks". Use those wisely.)

 

[DMG]

>wizzrobe single handedly breaking a game so bad it needed a patch
OH WOW. THE TEARS, THEY ARE DELICIOUS.
In other news, did they add turbo? Make any changes to the engine?

You know there were other Sonic players right? Sethlon used to play Sonic and basically won everything and QUIT Sonic because he felt the character wasn't healthy for the game. This was all without playing super duper campy too.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

the slide is still there idk what you're talking about

Really? I haven't been able to do it in 2.6 at all. Did they change the timing on it, or is it just done differently now?

 

[standardtoaster]

i'm doing it exactly the same as i did in 2.5

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Not sure what I could be doing wrong. Guess I'm just going to have to give it a try again next time I play 2.6.

 

[fatman667]

Okay, so I haven't been here for a while or played P:M for a while, but I got the chance to play 2.6 today and here's what I think. MK doesn't feel to OP and that's a good thing, but I haven't play him to his fullest potential yet, but I feel that spacies still overpower him in terms of shield pressure and spacing. So overall MK feels balanced from what I see so far. The game feels a smoother now in terms of movement, but I don't see that many drastic gameplay changes compared to the previous version (again first impression, so I might see some changes later). I'm going to try out Link later and see how much he's improved. I'm really looking forward to the next update and hopefully we'll have the addition of at least Olimar, Samus, and/or Yoshi (I know Kirby gonna have to be reworked a lot and it can be controversial on what to improve or change and IC's in general is controversial on how to change them or to keep them with their broken grabs or not). Overall this is a good improvement and I know MK was really controversial and you really made him into a more balanced character and that is really impressive. I might edit this post when I play more and add more details on my opinions.

 

[EpixAura]

I'm a pretty big fan of what they did with MK. He's kept a lot of his original concept and playstyle while being balanced exceptionally well. He seems very versatile in what he does. Good gimps, decent combos, not too much trouble killing, and amazing recovery. Not to mention he applies a ridiculous amount of pressure because of his mobile specials, great OoS game, and forward and down tilts, the former of which has amazing range, and the latter being great at shield poking. He can both approach and bait reactions out really easily too, all while feeling perfectly balanced and completely at home with the game's physics. I haven't gotten to experiment an awful lot with his Dimensional Cape, but I have to admit, it looks like it would be a pretty gimmicky option anyway.

All the buffs given to characters were well deserved and from what I've seen, none of them are over the top. I heard Diddy got nerfed, so I don't particularly know what to think about that. I'm actually somewhat surprised to see Fox/Falco weren't given a slight nerf given how much they still dominate, especially since Fox's Usmash was indirectly buffed with the way the C-stick works now. I feel like Melee spacies are still stronger than a lot of the characters we've seen nerfed already. I don't know about Sonic, though. I can't decide if he was overpowered or just really good and extremely annoying. Either way, a change was justified. I don't play Sonic nearly enough to know whether or not they overdid it.

 

[Galaga]

As a Diddy main, this patch makes me a bit sad. RIP 2.5 Side-B. However, I can still say that Diddy definitely needed some nerfs and he feels like a strong character even after the nerfs. The new side-B is still more than usable, it's just going to make me play Diddy a bit differently. And I've been dreading the day Meta Knight made it into P:M because of how OP I've heard he is in Brawl, but I definitely think the PMBR handled him well and he is definitely a fun character to play. I only played 2 or 3 matches vs lvl9 bots so I can't really judge a lot yet, but overall I'm definitely satisfied with how 2.6 came out. Keep up the great work PMBR, you guys deserve as much praise as possible.

 

[reymj20]

Has anyone fought against a Level 9 Jigglypuff yet? Because you should.

lol fight a lv9 falco die to him and watch him jus multishine until u come down

 

[NightShadow6]

So reading what I could about charizard, does this mean I can no longer cancel glide and immediately double jump? I just loved the freedom it gave in the air, mind games were just a plus,

(No SD card so can't play)

 

[Sixth-Sense]

the game feels a liiiittle smoother, mostly noticed it with fox, where his SHDL is just easy now and not baby-easy like it was in 2.5, ganon needed that up-tilt (although i think he should have a better, more "destructive" animation, or at least more beast-like), I have to say i'm very very impressed with MK, just with the first impression he feels great and it feels like i actually have to think with him, while still being a really good (and boss) character. Link's boomerang animation looks off and could really use some sprucing up, bc it really looks wierd, Sonic actually feels like a character now and not just a three button combo=WIN, he actually has to use his amazing speed to outmanuver and take control of the stage effectivily without the need to spin everywhere, also impressed.

I'm a melee guy and i never really looked at lucas's moveset animation in Brawl, and i have to say the new animations look way cooler (and seem to be better aswell, i have no idea, i just like it more), Lucario feels really good now, and that new f-tilt animation.......GOD you guys realllllly outdid yourselfs with that animation, it looks amazing in a string of combos, much more pleasing to the eye, cpu in general seems a little bit better, snake a little cooler with grenade+up-smash angle, uhhhhhh oh lylat is actually playable. that's it for now i guess

From what i can see and what i think, this demo is just to test run the changes made on a much bigger scale (mostly MK and sonic) and the next (please 3.0) might come out in december or early january, and also to tease us for the real release. Once again a great demo, but i think i'll just keep on waiting for mechanic changes and new features. Still though, really impressed with mk, like really impressed, might main actually

 

[Sixth-Sense]

what the hell? first d-post, thought i could get to 300 without doing that

 

[AncientPancakes]

2.6 is extremely juicy. I'm loving the most of the changes.

The only changes that i didn't agree with are:

1. Link's new boomerang is a great idea imo, but the new animation seems odd to me. I certainly won't mind if it stays but the old one just looked cooler. His new dash attack animation however is delicious.

2. I'd definitely like Diddy's smash sideB to be a little less strict. It reminds me of how difficult it was to get Ivysaur's smash razor leaf to come out but (correct me if i'm wrong) you changed that in 2.6, so i'm hoping Diddy's sideB will get the same treatment in the next release/patch.

3. I'm not a huge fan of Charizard losing his jumps after a glide, but I will wait and see if my opinion changes on that. I think being a flying pokemon and having his moveset based around aerial combat that being able to jump after gliding would be a great asset to him, so it seems weird to me that it was removed.

These are just a few gripes that I have, but other than those you guys have done a great job and i'm sure 2.6 will last us a while.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

You guys brought back Apple Boots Fox........NOW he's back to the Melee top tier we learned to fear.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Ivy's Side B is the funniest jankiest thing ever. She can repeat the move since it has no end lag but it doesn't do anything lol. Would it not be possible to code it so you just can't do the move if the projectile is already out?

MK still has possibly the best empty hop in the game. Fox's is great and Wolf's is better in a vaccum, but Fox seems to jump a bit higher and Wolf doesn't have the ground speed to use it as a nearly as effective fake. Metaknight's feels perfect in the middle.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'd definitely like Diddy's smash sideB to be a little less strict. It reminds me of how difficult it was to get Ivysaur's smash razor leaf to come out but (correct me if i'm wrong) you changed that in 2.6, so i'm hoping Diddy's sideB will get the same treatment in the next release/patch.

I too super hope they indeed include that in the probable upcoming patch for all the MK bugs and Wifi desync issues. For comparison: Link's side-b is so much easier to get the strong version, yet even with how easier it is it's not hard at all to have the finesse to do the weak version every time as well. I didn't notice they made Ivy's less strict but that's definitely awesome to hear

 

[Generically Epic]

I play diddy a lot and he seems really different...

 

[Deleted member]

Ivy's Side B is the funniest jankiest thing ever. She can repeat the move since it has no end lag but it doesn't do anything lol. Would it not be possible to code it so you just can't do the move if the projectile is already out?

I wouldn't necessarily call it janky, especially because Link does the same with his boomerang. I wouldn't mind that change, but it's not really a huge deal. You just have to get used to only throwing one out at a time.

But honestly, Ivysaur is a blast to play now. The tweaks make for an overall faster, more effective character that fits into the Melee environment much better. For this reason alone, I'm very pleased with 2.6.
<3 Ivysaur

 

[Jasou]

As said before, Meta knight was brought into the game excellently because he is balanced and original/fun to play as. I love how he can juggle with his u-air and zero to death with up-b finisher on some characters if you read their DI and are on a good part of certain stages. It's also great that they got rid of that infinite priority because that was kinda dumb. Still is similar to Brawl, but not stupidly broken which is awesome. So kudos to PMBR on his release.

My main Mario seems pretty much the same and still has very satisfying mobility and combos so I'm very happy about that.

The only thing I'm upset about is the Diddy Kong dash attack. I played a ton of Diddy Kong as my secondary and I want to say it was a nerf because of the way I used him but in some ways the change is good. I really miss the old dash attack and I'm not used to the distance options on his side-b yet, but I noticed that with these changes it's easier to dash off the edge(hitting your opponent)>double jump>side-b gimp which is a neat change I'll have to use more. Except I still feel more comfortable edgeguarding with the old dash attack into a special or aerial but I'll live. The peels are still there.

 

[MrWeavile]

No SD card atm but did they do anything to Dedede?

They beefed the **** out of his dash attack. It has a load of super armor on it, not sure if it's infinite or not.
Also you can dash cancel his waddle dee.

 

[Wieners]

Felt the exact same way going from 2.1 sonic to 2.5 sonic. Spent months and months practicing and mastering SideB WD and the Homing Attack Cancels. Only to have it taken away.

It honestly makes the character unplayable. Your hands will try to do the same **** but none of it will work.

This is probably terrible advice, but I'd recommend just not playing Sonic anymore. I had to learn a new character - went with wolf. He turned out to be a lot of fun and probably improved my overall smash game.

Aren't you PMBR? Yeesh.

 

[Shwagzamaxima]

You know there were other Sonic players right? Sethlon used to play Sonic and basically won everything and QUIT Sonic because he felt the character wasn't healthy for the game. This was all without playing super duper campy too.

Well, I know that. But Wizzrobe really showed off Sonic more, and he developed a system for dealing with the major threats. Other people gave him the parts, he made a car. I am sure they wouldn't have nerfed him if Wizzy didn't win everything and 4stock M2K and stuff like that.

 

[Wieners]

MetaKnight Down Air is AMAZING! It can be punished if your not careful with your aim but I LOVE how well it sets up for combos. Speaking of that, the way he can mix up his specials so well mid combo blows my mind. Funny thing is, he still doesn't feel OP. You actually need to be careful when playing as him, and without momentum canceling and ridiculous Special Move range he IS a worthy, but not overly cheap, opponent. Keep it up guys! (Just be careful with the "tweaks". Use those wisely.)

Is side B actually good for combos? I can't figure out how to make it work.

 

[Strong Badam]

Well, I know that. But Wizzrobe really showed off Sonic more, and he developed a system for dealing with the major threats. Other people gave him the parts, he made a car. I am sure they wouldn't have nerfed him if Wizzy didn't win everything and 4stock M2K and stuff like that.

you are mistaken, we were well aware of sonic's issues long before Zenith.

 

[2fast]

I'm with the people on Sonic. WD out of spin dash, I admit, was really good and he needed to be nerfed a little but not the way he was. They should have taken out the ability to just bust out a move on contact when you hit them with spin dash (besides air dodge/WD), lowered the range of homing attack, and nerfed his damage output and kill power but still maintained his WD game for his mobility. I'd much rather the great mobility over kill power.

I find myself playing my second way more now :/

 

[Juushichi]

Sonic still has amazing mobility. o_O