ZSS.. Now with 0-death combo !

[kuenzel]

Would Plasma Wire -> ftilt work?

I tried on Bowser, and got it a couple times, but when i tried it on every other heavy character (and space animals) they didn't SLAM into the ground until they were out of locking range. They would regain their footing and land normaly before then. I have an idea though...

I haven't been able to try it because I don't entirely understand it, but have you noticed how sometimes (at least for me) when you attempt to spike with plasma wire, sometimes the ememy only gets hit once and the spike is WAAAY stronger/faster than with the three hit meteor smash? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Anyways, if you could hit with that consistantly, perhaps that would make it possible to lock right after that one-hit spike.

 

[ph00tbag]

I tried on Bowser, and got it a couple times, but when i tried it on every other heavy character (and space animals) they didn't SLAM into the ground until they were out of locking range. They would regain their footing and land normaly before then. I have an idea though...

I haven't been able to try it because I don't entirely understand it, but have you noticed how sometimes (at least for me) when you attempt to spike with plasma wire, sometimes the ememy only gets hit once and the spike is WAAAY stronger/faster than with the three hit meteor smash? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Anyways, if you could hit with that consistantly, perhaps that would make it possible to lock right after that one-hit spike.

This is the one I was thinking about. Adapt seems to have figured out a way to get it with some measure of consistency for his spike rankings, so I think it's a useful idea.

 

[Wildfire393]

I'd seen behavior slightly like this before, but I didn't figure out it was a jab-lock type effect, I thought my opponent had just screwed up. But I did chain 3-4 Dash Attacks into a running-off-the-stage Fair on an opponent who had tumbled like this for the Kill once, which was pretty cool.

 

[Adapt]

This is the one I was thinking about. Adapt seems to have figured out a way to get it with some measure of consistency for his spike rankings, so I think it's a useful idea.

You have to hit with the tip of the whip as the tip rises into the air.

It happens best when the foe is right above you and slightly in front of you

 

[Z1GMA]

I learned from Rohins that you can make your opponent fall from platforms, causing them to bounce..
And that should be a perfect setup for this : )

EDIT: If someone would want to make a little vid of different setups I would be happy to place it in the OP.

 

[FadedImage]

well all the setups are the same sort of setups as other ground locking things.

off the top of my head for ZSS:

• strong hit to shielding opponent at edge of platform (b-air, side-b, etc.)
• low trajectory attacks that put opponent into tumble (dash attack, bthrow, etc)
• spikes (up-b, flipspike, footstool?)

 

[TLMSheikant]

Brawl has combos!!! nice find. That's a jab lock.

 

[Adapt]

well all the setups are the same sort of setups as other ground locking things.

off the top of my head for ZSS:

• strong hit to shielding opponent at edge of platform (b-air, side-b, etc.)
• low trajectory attacks that put opponent into tumble (dash attack, bthrow, etc)
• spikes (up-b, flipspike, footstool?)

footstool won't work. you can't get back to the ground quick enough

I have been trying to get dsmash>footstool>first hit of dair (which makes the opponent bounce) and then a dsmash again after the get-up attack, but I can't quite fit it in before the opponent can shield.

You can easily hit them with a dash attack though.

You seem to have to hit with the ftilt first, the dash attack doesn't seem to initiate the lock from what I have tried

 

[kuenzel]

So, by definition, anyone can escape this if they tech, right? Then would this descovery simply be used to punish a failed tech? Or would there be any other uses?
The level 9 cpu's ALWAYS tech- actual people seem to miss quite often now that I think about it...

 

[Iwan]

So, by definition, anyone can escape this if they tech, right? Then would this descovery simply be used to punish a failed tech? Or would there be any other uses?
The level 9 cpu's ALWAYS tech- actual people seem to miss quite often now that I think about it...

Essentially, yes, this could be used to punish a failed tech. A set-up would be nice, however. lol. Either way, this is useful no matter what.

It's just with a set-up, it becomes...way more useful? xD

 

[Cynan Machae]

Oh wow that is pretty good. Time to start using Ftilt

 

[kuenzel]

Wait... what about a team match with snake? would his d-throw allow you to lock them? or can they get up before they run out of invincibility frames?

 

[DeliciousCake]

Snake's d-throw does not put them into a bouncing animation, hence why he can't combo with it all that well.

 

[Taalcon]

lmao, this would work in teams with a G&W

G&W ZSS team now has an instant kill move (bucket) and a 0 death combo.

...SNAKEEE GET A G&W PARTNER

 

[Snakeee]

lmao, this would work in teams with a G&W

G&W ZSS team now has an instant kill move (bucket) and a 0 death combo.

...SNAKEEE GET A G&W PARTNER

lol I'm teaming with one tomorrow. Perhaps we'll get vids up

 

[Z1GMA]

lol I'm teaming with one tomorrow. Perhaps we'll get vids up

Yay! : ) ... perform those crazy double team combos : D

 

[FBM]

The best part of this is dsmash Flip Jump at the end. I love it so much.

Sadly, that's not a 0-death combo. It's a 0-awkward situation often resulting in gimping death combo.

I've been totally soured on the dsmash->flip kick (unless I get the dsmash when they are a ways off-stage) b/c every time I try it, my opponent DI's toward the stage and the flip kick lands them on the stage 90% of the time or at least allows them to tech the wall. Watch the last 7 seconds of the vid in the OP slowly and see how barely Snake misses landing on the stage without DI (granted he wasn't perfectly at the ledge there).

 

[ph00tbag]

Sadly, that's not a 0-death combo. It's a 0-awkward situation often resulting in gimping death combo.

I've been totally soured on the dsmash->flip kick (unless I get the dsmash when they are a ways off-stage) b/c every time I try it, my opponent DI's toward the stage and the flip kick lands them on the stage 90% of the time or at least allows them to tech the wall. Watch the last 7 seconds of the vid in the OP slowly and see how barely Snake misses landing on the stage without DI (granted he wasn't perfectly at the ledge there).

If you space the dsmash right (which you have the time to do in this case), it's guaranteed. And even then, if you don't get the spike but still hit them with the kick, the knockback is generally enough to keep them from edgeguarding. Damage is damage.

 

[Hence]

I recently used this on a friend who doesn't always tech-roll. I couldn't complete the spike (Snake's Recovery), but it was probably because of DI. In my opinion, if you predict that someone won't tech-roll, it's worth a try.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Went to a tournament today, had no opportunities to pull this off. :\ I did get a cake combo though.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Its not a true 0-death combo, as you didn't factor in DI, and if they tech then it wont work. Otherwise its really good. Good luck getting a wario in it though, we rock the air! XD

 

[FBM]

If you space the dsmash right (which you have the time to do in this case), it's guaranteed. And even then, if you don't get the spike but still hit them with the kick, the knockback is generally enough to keep them from edgeguarding. Damage is damage.

My first sentence might have accidentally implied that you are at risk of gimping yourself - I meant the reverse: that you put yourself in a good position to gimp after the combo because you can hit them offstage after the dsmash with an aerial or something.

As far as spiking goes, landing it isn't that hard but (and I've tested this) if your opponent DIs towards the stage at an angle perpendicular to the launch angle of the dsmash, they will pop out of the dsmash almost vertically; if they then DI towards the stage before you land the kick, there is no possible way to spike them IF they were still onstage when hit by the dsmash, even if they were RIGHT at the edge, because the kick will hit them onto the stage. Often they can still do this simply by DIing the kick and not the dsmash (and really, it should be a no-brainer DI... you're going to get spiked, so DI towards the stage and look for the walltech). They have to be offstage when dsmashed to be spiked regardless of DI.

That explanation isn't a model of clarity, I know, so my apologies. I'll draw a diagram if it comes to that.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Its not a true 0-death combo, as you didn't factor in DI, and if they tech then it wont work. Otherwise its really good. Good luck getting a wario in it though, we rock the air! XD

You can't DI or tech the bouncing animation. Unless you're talking about the spike, in which DI is pretty much useless.

 

[FBM]

You can't DI or tech the bouncing animation. Unless you're talking about the spike, in which DI is pretty much useless.

I'm probably spazzing over nothing, but as my above post says, DI ruins the spike completely. The dsmash to flip-kick spike does not kill if the opponent is onstage and knows ZSS's moveset remotely well and knows how to auto-DI.

It's worth going for if you think you can hit it and catch someone by surprise, but I've done it and had the person I hit get up and grab the ledge faster then I could get out of the kick animation, which lead to me getting gimped because I lost both my down-B and my first jump in the process.

 

[Hence]

I'm probably spazzing over nothing, but as my above post says, DI ruins the spike completely. The dsmash to flip-kick spike does not kill if the opponent is onstage and knows ZSS's moveset remotely well and knows how to auto-DI.

It's worth going for if you think you can hit it and catch someone by surprise, but I've done it and had the person I hit get up and grab the ledge faster then I could get out of the kick animation, which lead to me getting gimped because I lost both my down-B and my first jump in the process.

This is actually true, on many occasions my Down+B spike (Landed Perfectly, might I add) has been DI'd out of. Of course, this is a player who was expecting the spike, and knew my moveset extremely well. Thinking back to match one of M2K vs. Snakeee at the ECRC, the second spike probably could have been DI'd out of. Of course, he probably hadn't played enough against a good ZSS to know to Auto-DI out of the Down+B. He obviously didn't expect it, due to the lack of air dodging as well. It would probably work on occasions such as this one.

 

[James Sparrow]

I'm probably spazzing over nothing, but as my above post says, DI ruins the spike completely. The dsmash to flip-kick spike does not kill if the opponent is onstage and knows ZSS's moveset remotely well and knows how to auto-DI.

It's worth going for if you think you can hit it and catch someone by surprise, but I've done it and had the person I hit get up and grab the ledge faster then I could get out of the kick animation, which lead to me getting gimped because I lost both my down-B and my first jump in the process.

Me too, it's best to save for when they're off the edge for sure. That being said it may not be so practical with "zero stepping".

 

[Z1GMA]

Went to a tournament today, had no opportunities to pull this off. :\ I did get a cake combo though.

Lol! You really had it in mind (in a tourney) !?
That's awesome dude!! ^^

 

[Adapt]

I may have found an awesome way to get this set up. I think it works, but I can't test atm. I have a replay on my wii where I get the setup, but I d-smashed instead.

When your opponent is on the edge of a platform just above you (battlefield, lylat, etc) do an up-smash in the middle of the platform below them. If they don't shield it, you get an up-smash and followup. If they do shield it, they normally get knocked off the platform and fall onto the ground below. I don't think that this is techable. I have never been able to do so.


EDIT: I tested this... it works!. Can someone confirm?

This is one case where shielding an attack is worse than taking the damage from it.

 

[Diddyknight]

o.O.....0-death O.o

i think i may have to pick up Zss now

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Wow this really is kool. I managed to pull it off last night but I ended up failing the spike. I gotta practice this more cuz its kool. Oh and im pretty sure that they could try to do the stage tech thingy when they get spiked if they try hard enough by like DIng and smash DIng towards the stage.

 

[Flamingo]

Haha ugh now my friend, ZSS main has more tricks up his sleeve

 

[Zeallyx]

sorry, I couldn't get myself to read the whole topic, but:

can't (Dsmash>)up b spike into stage>Ftilt>Ftitlt>DA>Ftilt>Dsmash>spike work?

I mean, wouldn't up b be a great setup as it's kinda hard to tech?

 

[DeliciousCake]

The percentage for Plasma Wire to slam into the stage would make it a 60-death combo, which IMO is probably not worth trying to set up at that point. I guess it could still be used though. Although the best set-ups we have so far are b-air at 0% and forcing them off of a platform.

 

[Snakeee]

This isn't a true 0-death the topic name should be changed. It's still cool though lol

 

[Taalcon]

call it zero death if you get the spike off lulz

otherwise just sexy

 

[Z1GMA]

lol, this thing's still alive^^

 

[Chis]

You can't DI or tech the bouncing animation. Unless you're talking about the spike, in which DI is pretty much useless.

You can smash DI it.

 

[DeliciousCake]

lol, this thing's still alive^^

It's still alive because of stupid bumps that don't add to the thread.

 

[Darxmarth23]

It's still alive because of stupid bumps that don't add to the thread.

SERIOUSLY PPL DROP IT AND LET THIS THREAD DIE

Forget about o-deaths. The engine doesn't suport it.