ZSS General Discussion

[sasook]

ZSS is one of those silent killer characters. She's good, but no one pays attention to her. That just shows how little they know.

 

[Nixernator]

Fixed.

Also, Susa said that "pros are figuring out the side b is not as good as people thought."

I'm sorry, but is this really anything new? I mean, I've always been using fair and bair to kill, sideb has to much start up.

Susa is talking about using side-b for spacing and damage racking. People are constantly suprised buts its range and get hit by it wayyy too often.
Susa was just saying that its pretty easy to walk and Pshield it or walk in the deadzone (Lol that is so frustrating).
Edit: Lol who uses Side-B for kills anyways? Its either staled to hell or never gonna hit a smart opponent.

 

[Snakeee]

I mostly only seem to hit with Side B if I hit them at the point where they get hit by both parts and it manages to shield stab them...which is delicious

 

[Zephil]

ZSS is one of those silent killer characters. She's good, but no one pays attention to her. That just shows how little they know.

thats what happen when we live in Samus shadow... but I prefer it this way... the only way to practice against ZSS is to fight someone who uses her... not even the cpu can't use it, so all this brings a lack of knowledge in her matchup... which is better for us

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

As you probably know, several Up Specials in the game can cause the character to sweet spot the edge from a safer distance (i.e., from farther away). Because we use a tether, we are seemingly exempt from this. Our Flip Jump sweetspots the edge from a longer distance, however that isn't very convenient and is really only useful for ledge cancelling.

While it is well-known that you can Plasma Wire Ledge Cancel by tapping down shortly after your tether connects to the edge, I would be interested in knowing how many of you know that Plasma Wire actually does sweet spot the edge from a rather long distance. The only problem is that the tether gets in the way, or it did.

It turns out that if you ledge cancel your Plasma Wire while close enough to the edge, ZSS will drop and the immediately sweetspot the edge for a distance that is quite remarkable. While this seems obvious, I have started using this technique in a way similar to Link's edge tethering, that is, edge-hogging opponents such as Ike (his up+b, most notably). It also briefly extends your invulnerability on the ledge and when used to recover, decreases the chance of being fair'd out of your tether and gimped that way.

 

[sasook]

Those darn ZSS players, they be stealin' teh techs from da Links. JCTs, PBs, and now tether hogs. *shakes fist*

Lol, jk. I knew about the hanging ledge -> reel in for frames, but didn't really understand what you meant about the sweetspotting stuff.

 

[Hence]

It's just not safe.

 

[Gea]

So if I get this right you snap on, reel yourself close, drop down and it will snap from pretty far away?

I will have to try this.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I actually didn't get a chance to try it when you're hanging low. What I was doing was using up+b when close-ish to the ledge and then hitting down immediately -- she just snaps to it, thus making it safer than reeling yourself in in some situations.

 

[Gea]

Ah, I get what you are saying. Thank you

 

[Hence]

There's something called a Flip Jump stall for these situations D;<

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Has anyone else noticed that there's always a precocious teen internet personality around?

Like mosquitoes, they are.

 

[shlike]

so much love on the zss boards

 

[Hence]

There's no reason to make fun of me for pointing out something that was clearly obvious. There's no reason to even test the teather stall if there's a better one.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

There's no reason to make fun of me for pointing out something that was clearly obvious. There's no reason to even test the teather stall if there's a better one.

Fail. There's always a reason to test things, it's how advances are made even if they don't seem useful on the surface.

 

[noradseven]

Did you guys seriously not know about this, it has some p. hilarious uses for edge hogging certain characters, and just for being a ****, and you should know it but it is fairly dangerous.

edit:Guys learn how to flame war jeez this is pathetic. seriously no suggestions to get out or kill urself or whitty images, you should all be ashamed.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Did you guys seriously not know about this, it has some p. hilarious uses for edge hogging certain characters, and just for being a ****, and you should know it but it is fairly dangerous.

No, I didn't know. But I'm glad it is useful.

Also, I don't flame well. I prefer to just use scripts like the Darkwater one (will be installing a new one soon, it seems).

 

[shlike]

darkwater is the guy who praises f smash right???

 

[noradseven]

darkwater is the guy who praises f smash right???

f-smashes are teh ownage.

 

[NickRiddle]

So, could somebody please tell me where a ftilt is better than... anything else? I STILL never use that move.

 

[mountain_tiger]

So, could somebody please tell me where a ftilt is better than... anything else? I STILL never use that move.

It can jab lock, and it's a more damaging and safer GTFO move than her neutral A.

 

[Zephil]

ftilt trip... nough said

 

[noradseven]

So, could somebody please tell me where a ftilt is better than... anything else? I STILL never use that move.

I agree other than the occasion match specific situation specific use like some characters like jiggs approaching from the low air, I can't find much a use for it.

 

[sasook]

Ftilt stops a lot of aerial approaches. I remember when PX played Snakeee, he was like "your ftilt is gay."

 

[FadedImage]

lol, so does u-air \:

imo f-tilt is garbage. too slow for gtfo, not damaging enough that it's better for punish.

imo, jab/d-tilt/dash attack always better options.

 

[Zero Hour]

I like it even though I'm a noob. The speed, knock back, and decent range make it useful. Plus being able to aim it for a little added bonus.

 

[mountain_tiger]

A question about ZSS' recovery. Let's suppose that she gets hits by a semi-spike (for the sake of illustration, Zelda's DSmash for example). The question is, should you DI or not? If you DI upwards, that means that if you survive, then a boost jump and Flip Jimp should hopefully reach the stage, but by DIing upwards less force is needed to KO you. If you don't DI, you have less distance to travel, making surviving the initial impact easier, however you must resort to your tether, making you easy to edgehog. So what should you do in these circumstances?

 

[shlike]

momentum cancel with uair then up b boostjump to flip jump or tether grab depending on the situation.

 

[Zero]

Zelda's dsmash spikes? o.o

Nevertheless, tether the edge before they can hug it manually. Your tether has magnificent range and is quick to come out. Or as shlike says, recover however you choose, as long as you do recover. YOU MUST RECOVER !

 

[mountain_tiger]

Zelda's dsmash spikes? o.o

Nevertheless, tether the edge before they can hug it manually. Your tether has magnificent range and is quick to come out. Or as shlike says, recover however you choose, as long as you do recover. YOU MUST RECOVER !

I said semi-spike. That's where you get sent downwards slightly, but mostly horizontally. It screws over characters that have bad horizontal recoveries.

 

[noradseven]

Zelda's dsmash spikes? o.o

Nevertheless, tether the edge before they can hug it manually. Your tether has magnificent range and is quick to come out. Or as shlike says, recover however you choose, as long as you do recover. YOU MUST RECOVER !

zelda d-smash has a lighting death spike sweet spot, its probably the 3rd/2nd best knockback after ganon and maybe ness in power, imagine the lighting kick but down thats what it is.

 

[NickRiddle]

zelda d-smash has a lighting death spike sweet spot, its probably the 3rd/2nd best knockback after ganon and maybe ness in power, imagine the lighting kick but down thats what it is.

D-smash =/= Dair.

Hold up and try to recover. if you're at high enough % thaty ou will die from doing this, you will die from not being abl to recover if you don't DI.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

A question about ZSS' recovery. Let's suppose that she gets hits by a semi-spike (for the sake of illustration, Zelda's DSmash for example). The question is, should you DI or not? If you DI upwards, that means that if you survive, then a boost jump and Flip Jimp should hopefully reach the stage, but by DIing upwards less force is needed to KO you. If you don't DI, you have less distance to travel, making surviving the initial impact easier, however you must resort to your tether, making you easy to edgehog. So what should you do in these circumstances?

Wut?

If you DI it upwards there is MORE force necessary to KO you, as the stage has a rectangular shape. Thus you have to travel more distance to be KO'd.

If you don't DI it's also harder to recover, because (while you have to travel less distance back to the stage) you're more vulnerable for being knocked back, and you can't use your aerial movement to return to the stage, as you almost instantly have to move upwards again leaving less time to just float to the stage.

 

[sasook]

Wut?

If you DI it upwards there is MORE force necessary to KO you, as the stage has a rectangular shape. Thus you have to travel more distance to be KO'd.

This. Listen to this man.

If you don't DI it's also harder to recover, because (while you have to travel less distance back to the stage) you're more vulnerable for being knocked back, and you can't use your aerial movement to return to the stage, as you almost instantly have to move upwards again leaving less time to just float to the stage.

This as well. The only part I don't understand is why you have less distance to travel if you don't DI. That doesn't make sense to me.

If you DI, you force less knockback from the move you were just hit from. Less knockback = less distance to get back on stage.

 

[Hence]

I was thinking about Sfp's Plasma Wire idea. I think it has very good uses, at least in doubles. You can edgehog virtually every recovery that was meant to sweetspot the ledge, and force some laggier recoveries to the stage (such as MK's drill rush). Just an idea.

 

[Zero]

You can also drop down, use Plasma Wire and not retract it, hanging below the stage out of harm and still take the ledge. There's a much longer time before you're forced to retract, and you're mostly safe from attacks. It's a safe method of edgeguarding. But I'm confident that you all know this already and it need not be discussed.

 

[FadedImage]

okay sassy what he meant is, say you're going at a -20degree angle.. and you DI up, that potentially puts you at a 0degree angle, which means you're making straight for the wall.

However, the "semi-spike" things can be DI'd to usually reflect their trajectory angle. for instance, if it sends you at -20degree angle, then you'll probably be sent at 20degrees if you hold north north east.

It's ALWAYS better to DI, cuz like the other guy said, if you're at a high enough percent that DI'ing up puts you at a higher risk for death, than there is no chance you'll be able to recover without DI... your opponent just has to hold the edge since you have no way to threaten them off of it.

 

[noradseven]

I thought in brawl with most ppl it was a better idea to DI towards the stage, or is it still the same as melee.

 

[Zero]

You generally only DI towards the stage when you get meteor smashed, in the hope that you either hit the stage or can tech it. In this situation you're getting hit horizontally, so DIing towards the stage would have no effect at all.

 

[sasook]

okay sassy what he meant is, say you're going at a -20degree angle.. and you DI up, that potentially puts you at a 0degree angle, which means you're making straight for the wall.

However, the "semi-spike" things can be DI'd to usually reflect their trajectory angle. for instance, if it sends you at -20degree angle, then you'll probably be sent at 20degrees if you hold north north east.

It's ALWAYS better to DI, cuz like the other guy said, if you're at a high enough percent that DI'ing up puts you at a higher risk for death, than there is no chance you'll be able to recover without DI... your opponent just has to hold the edge since you have no way to threaten them off of it.

Ohhh, that makes sense. I assumed we were talking about a 0 degree trajectory, not a -20 or whatever one.