ZSS General Discussion

[NickRiddle]

Shaky beat Denti? O.o
And shutup Blacktwins lmao

Edit: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHAKY BEAT DENTI DAMN

Yeah, Shaky dabess

 

[Luigi player]

Fow also beat rich brown some time ago and people were arguing about the mu being even.

 

[infiniteV115]

It's already listed as even in the chart

 

[Denti]

Shaky so good

 

[Shaky]

Denti so good

 

[infiniteV115]

Was it on stream?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Shaky beat Denti? O.o
And shutup Blacktwins lmao

Edit: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHAKY BEAT DENTI DAMN

I literally read it like this:

I'm yet to watch those matches (internet's been acting up lately), but I'll be sure to take notes.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Why are people so surprised when Ness can beat something

Ness is a high tier character with a low tier grab release problem. If he is either air released or can avoid grabs he's golden.

 

[infiniteV115]

True, I guess I forgot that (to my knowledge) Oli doesn't really have any grab release shenanigans, or reliable ways to gimp Ness.

 

[Dakpo]

True, I guess I forgot that (to my knowledge) Oli doesn't really have any grab release shenanigans, or reliable ways to gimp Ness.

uhhh... if I'm not mistaken, If ness has a pikmmin attached then it will eat up the Up B when ness tries to recover.

 

[NickRiddle]

Ness should just nair first.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

What to do, when enemy is in water (piaza delfino)?

Can someone post the vid again about the platform drop thing by shield pressure or gun? I want to know on which characters it works (banana upthrow on diddy pushes him down pretty easily btw)

i started playing pikmin 2 btw. It's a good game and maybe i can find some weakness on olimar /bad_joke

 

[fkacyan]

No, SfP, Ness is a mid/low-tier character with mediocre killing power with the exception of backthrow that maybe two players use to great effect mostly because nobody knows the matchup.

They would do better with a better character.

nyoron~

 

[DeLux]

You're BOTH wrong

Ness is actually the best character in the game with the exception of his ground based range, gimpable recovery, and issues when grabbed

 

[infiniteV115]

What to do, when enemy is in water (piaza delfino)?

Can someone post the vid again about the platform drop thing by shield pressure or gun? I want to know on which characters it works (banana upthrow on diddy pushes him down pretty easily btw)

i started playing pikmin 2 btw. It's a good game and maybe i can find some weakness on olimar /bad_joke

You mean this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkB9mh1Rzds

And yeah Pikmin 2 was really good.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

No, i mean a video where that platform drop is shown on many characters. On some like Mk he can't do anything than fall on the floor without tech, others like Marth can react before they reach the ground.
Anyway a list would be also great.

 

[DeLux]

Quik, I suspect this is the video you're talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFtJDxsqMs

However, the video is battle field specific. The ledge slip is dependent on character ledge slipping animation, how high the platform is, and fall speed

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

This vid is good, and edge slip appears on Bf not rarely.
We already talked about to use this for gun reset to dsmash.
So what are our tools for edge slip? Neutral b, the first hit fair (on shield). What else? Does the second fair work on shield?

 

[DeLux]

I would try falling Uair and falling back side of Nair

 

[infiniteV115]

Nair never edgeslips for some reason (not on hit)
Anything that hits the opponent's shield can force them into an edgeslip...stronger move on shield = more shield push = more likely to edge slip (I think it depends on knockback?)
At low percents, fair1, fair2 and bair should work. As well as ftilt and dash attack.
At mid percents, fair1 and ftilt.
At high percents, probably only paralyzer. (Paralyzer works at any percent cause it has set knockback)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Another hilarious bug: ZSS' sweet spot fsmash (the one near her, at the bottom of the stack) forces get-up at like 0%-10% and if you manage to use it to that end, the crowd cheers occasionally. XD

It's like, you land fsmash and the crowd goes EEEEYYYy

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's neat, because I could see it happening out of an edgeslip in an actual match....

 

[infiniteV115]

So recently I've been becoming more and more aware that usmash is ****ing godlike.
Seriously it is one of the best anti-airs in the game, if not the best.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I use usmash way too much´

It's only bad if you expect it to do 100% of its damage every time. I love when people DI out and I bair them for it. :D

 

[infiniteV115]

Oh I don't care about the damage at all (though if they fail to SDI and they get hit by all the ground hits and then all the aerial hits, it does like 13%), it's just a really good move positionally speaking.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yep, it covers so much, and it's one of the best platform pokes in the game. I think Pit's uair is the only move better suited.

 

[Tesh]

both of those moves do a mediocre job.

platform pressure needs mixups and a long commitment and cooldown does not force mistakes

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

What I mean is, it provides a lot of safe shield pressure from below.

 

[Dakpo]

Up smash is amazing when your under a platform

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

nick your gender is not unknown stop it :<

 

[infiniteV115]

Shutup Salem

 

[PEACE7]

V155 who is that in your avi lol

 

[infiniteV115]

That's Poke (1PokeMastr on the boards), a dude from my region

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's Poke (1PokeMastr on the boards), a dude from my region

So that's the guy the Tier List Thread was calling for.... he was in your avi the whole time lol

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

LOL that guy who thinks hes good

I laughed.

 

[PEACE7]

Oh the falco main

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hi, I have a fun trick that is practical and useful:

When you ledgehog someone as they are recovering with an up+b (this mostly happens with like... Marth, Squirtle, Mario, Samus and so forth) and they barely make it back onstage, you can ledgehop paralyzer to force ledgeslip again and hit them (usually) with a guaranteed bair after ledgedrop or fair in some cases to kill!

This is actually disgusting against like, Link and Olimar for example. Just make sure you aren't too close or they will change direction. Generally this will kill characters with mediocre recoveries at around 60%, lol. Reminds me of TL okiedoke.

To be honest I'm starting to think paralyzer is our best move... it has so many simple, safe spacing applications and so much gay micro.

EDIT: Also makes the grab-release to paralyzer->footstool on squirtle a gauranteed kill since paralyzer after he uses up-b to land on-stage should force him to slip and give you an aerial that sends him underneath the stage.

 

[NickRiddle]

Ledgehop > land on stage > paralyzer?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

no, just jump as they land, paralyzer as late as you can get away with, regrab the ledge, and drop off->follow-up.

The timing on certain characters is pretty tight. You basically want to pretend everyone is as big as squirtle when you do this. Don't hit the top of them with the paralyzer.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

interesting stuff. i like to punish marth and so on with down-b, when they land on stage.
if there isn't much time for punish a simpe nair or uair