Zero Suit Video Thread and Analysis

[David Viran]

Yeah I'm still fighting off the lizard brain impulses when it comes to a lot of those moves. will keep weeding out the baffling selections as best I can.

In terms of combos, I think I shouldn't be double jumping before second Uair below 20%. Seem to whiff to the buffered airdodge there.

Thanks all! Sorry to offend with my obviously janky WiFi play, I guess.

If they the uair puts them into tumble it will pretty much combo. When it doesn't uair again and fast fall because they could easily be airdodgeing into the ground.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Here I fought a really good zero suit samus. i got hit by those kicks a lot, very hard to avoid. Any advice for me dealing with her kicks? I discussed certain things about it in the video and was trying to figure it out. thanks B)

 

[extremechiton]

Here I fought a really good zero suit samus. i got hit by those kicks a lot, very hard to avoid. Any advice for me dealing with her kicks? I discussed certain things about it in the video and was trying to figure it out. thanks B)

One thing you can do is di away from zss to avoid up air strings after dthrow(to which zss can respond with fairs, so mix up your di)
Also, don't punish with ddd dash attack, it's too slow.
As you found out, don't hold a move and be stationary.

At times you can challenge flip kick. Like with greninja, you can use your disjointed fair to intercept the flip or up smash to disrupt it. (As a note of caution, this is dangerous, you could trade, but not in your favor, our you can hope he doesn't activate the kick and you can catch him off guard)

You can also roll or spot dodge. Dodging the stomp will force zss into the bounce off animation which has lots of lag, and of he kicks, you can punish the landing lag.

Ps. Nice dunk

Marios head is invincible during up smash, so you can throw that out whenever he flip jumps.

 

[DrizzyDrew]

One thing you can do is di away from zss to avoid up air strings after dthrow(to which zss can respond with fairs, so mix up your di)
Also, don't punish with ddd dash attack, it's too slow.
As you found out, don't hold a move and be stationary.

At times you can challenge flip kick. Like with greninja, you can use your disjointed fair to intercept the flip or up smash to disrupt it. (As a note of caution, this is dangerous, you could trade, but not in your favor, our you can hope he doesn't activate the kick and you can catch him off guard)

You can also roll or spot dodge. Dodging the stomp will force zss into the bounce off animation which has lots of lag, and of he kicks, you can punish the landing lag.

Ps. Nice dunk

Marios head is invincible during up smash, so you can throw that out whenever he flip jumps.

LOL i love that ddd dash attack, but yea not the best option.

From what I understand, if you block the kick she bounces off and has landing lag, but can she still use her double jump if she still has it?

I should take advantage of marios up smash invinciblity, but I dont know how invincible it is. I believe at start up? or similar to g&w's up smash where you cannot contest that move

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Here I fought a really good zero suit samus. i got hit by those kicks a lot, very hard to avoid. Any advice for me dealing with her kicks? I discussed certain things about it in the video and was trying to figure it out. thanks B)

When ZSS lands after boost kick or flip kick (after she kicks), she's completely helpless for a quarter to a half a second. Take advantage of that and get free grabs and such. You sorta talked out the right idea with flip kick too. If you walk in and block the kick on purpose, she'll bounce off you... be forced to land on the ground (so long as she didn't bounce off you while on a platform)... and incur lots of landing lag.

Also, she can't actually kick until after the apex of the flip. High jumping characters, such as Greninja, can chase that apex and hit her out of it. Don't go for that hit too early though, she's invulnerable for a period of time as she rises.

 

[extremechiton]

LOL i love that ddd dash attack, but yea not the best option.

From what I understand, if you block the kick she bounces off and has landing lag, but can she still use her double jump if she still has it?

I should take advantage of marios up smash invinciblity, but I dont know how invincible it is. I believe at start up? or similar to g&w's up smash where you cannot contest that move

She will still have lag, but she won't be able to jump till she's close to the ground.
If you read right, you can immediately jump out of shield and punish with a reaching aerial. Be in mind zss can mix up her trajectory while bouncing off, so if you read wrong, you'll end up wiffing big time.

I don't know of many moves that can reach zss after the bounce off. Someone will have to test that. But if your character has quick mobility, or a far reaching attack, you could he able to punish the bounce off upon reaction.

Or you can Fox trot over to where zss will land and try to punish.

 

[NickRiddle]

NickRiddle (ZSS/Brawler) vs. True Blue (Sonic)

NickRiddle (Boost Kick) vs. 8BitMan (Blastzone)

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

NickRiddle (ZSS/Brawler) vs. True Blue (Sonic)

NickRiddle (Boost Kick) vs. 8BitMan (Blastzone)

The first set was... interesting.
Time to pick up my Miley Cyrus Mii again. I can taste the salt already.

 

[Muffin!]

Good lord the spacing on your boost kick is immaculate. Looks like it's time to get back in the lab.

 

[David Viran]

Nairo vs false gf

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ovl9L1w7i1U

Nairo vs false winners finals

https://youtube.com/watch?v=BO0VKL2rDO4

 

[Take 5]

Got some good stuff for ya guys from my 2nd place at the last xanadu monthly:

vs Acid (Falcon/Luigi): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi8Fymu60ig
vs Logic (Diddy/Alph): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfmGOR9A3FM
Losers Finals vs Mik! (Ness): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f94MXradIQ
Grand Finals vs Seagull (Sonic): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYX3PXpKRlE

Enjoy

Wow, your u-airs come out almost instantaneously after short hopping! Do you use a non-standard button mapping to achieve this?

Edit: Your SH FF u-airs, I mean. Trying to do it that fast, but there seems to be a slight delay between pressing jump and hitting the C-stick. Do you have jump mapped to something other than X/Y?

 

[Remzi]

Wow, your u-airs come out almost instantaneously after short hopping! Do you use a non-standard button mapping to achieve this?

Edit: Your SH FF u-airs, I mean. Trying to do it that fast, but there seems to be a slight delay between pressing jump and hitting the C-stick. Do you have jump mapped to something other than X/Y?

Good eye to notice that. Yeah I buffer all my SH aerials (besides nair) by pressing up on the left analog and c-stick at the same time. This only works if you have tap jump on, and if you try to do it for uair you'll get an usmash instead. But if you set c-stick to attack, voila, you get an auto buffered SH uair

 

[BatShark]

Another week, another crippling onstream loss for me.

Here you go @DeLux - some offline play for ya.

I'm so unbelievably over customs it's not even funny. Really sad that I played explosive balloons so well most of the set and then get ****ed in game two. Also should have cut the attempted down B punishes on him throwing Lloyd out, wasn't getting much of anywhere with 'em. Bit of a salty loss, especially since my opponent was getting coached mid-match most of this set.

Feedback appreciated, inasmuch as a set against custom Villager actually resembles real play enough to be applicable.

 

[Nicole]

ZSS dittos with Xyz.

 

[c23lui]

This is important.

 

[Remzi]

A few videos from Xanadu 100 where I got 4th of 144 entrants, with competitors from 10 different states present

WB vs Marss (Zero Suit Samus)
LB vs GIMR (Game & Watch)
Losers Quarters vs Feel Tension (Fox)
Losers Semis vs Vinnie (Sheik) *I switched to Pika after game 1

 

[hiROI]

Tournament from last monday, I got 3rd out of 35+ at our weekly. Note: If i just jump out of shield or Side B out of shield, I am trying to Up B out of shield but I sometimes input a tech error. Please feel free to critique! Excuse the iPhone 6 quality recording.



Winners's Semi vs Phuzix (Sheik) --Recorded Entire Set
Game 1
Game 2 (TBH favorite match)
Game 3

Winner's Finals vs KDB (Yoshi) -- Recorded Game 2 and 3. Lost the set, but played him this past week in Loser Semis and did muchhhhh better after learning ZSS >>> Yoshi in air
Game 2
Game 3

Loser's Finals vs Phuzix (Sheik) - Only one was recorded, and lost solidly.
Game 2/5

______________
@ Remzi That GIMR match at 1:55 has me feeling some type of way. I will watch the other matches and give feedback when I comeback from a conference this weekend.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Tournament from last monday, I got 3rd out of 35+ at our weekly. Note: If i just jump out of shield or Side B out of shield, I am trying to Up B out of shield but I sometimes input a tech error. Please feel free to critique! Excuse the iPhone 6 quality recording.



Winners's Semi vs Phuzix (Sheik) --Recorded Entire Set
Game 1
Game 2 (TBH favorite match)
Game 3

Winner's Finals vs KDB (Yoshi) -- Recorded Game 2 and 3. Lost the set, but played him this past week in Loser Semis and did muchhhhh better after learning ZSS >>> Yoshi in air
Game 2
Game 3

Loser's Finals vs Phuzix (Sheik) - Only one was recorded, and lost solidly.
Game 2/5

______________
@ Remzi That GIMR match at 1:55 has me feeling some type of way. I will watch the other matches and give feedback when I comeback from a conference this weekend.

That Spike in your favourite match was absolutely beautiful.
So our Sex Kick hitbox reaches far enough to catch Sheiks uSpecial hurtbox? That's amazing.

 

[infiniteV115]

Here's me 3 stocking that Luigi that got 2nd at GOML
Here's me beating him again
Here's me beating him a third time

Here's me beating some Rosa player that beat Ally a few months ago

Here's me beating Pikachu, Palu, and custom Palu

(Watch all of these soon cause they'll probably disappear off twitch)

Oh and this vid is just for ****s and giggles (cause it's probably useless) but here's me doing disgusting things to a scrubby fox player in a crew battle

lmk when I'm better than Nick Riddle

 

[Shaya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hiRNsNbnGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqt9VjuLjXE

won a tournament last sunday. First video is zero suit dittos winner's finals (with some random sheik i played as first match). Second set was grand finals against Palutena, played like 3,000 hours later.

 

[infiniteV115]

More me vs custom Palu

WFs, GFs of most recent customs weekly here in Toronto

 

[Shaya]

Why are we both playing palutenas in grand finals?

 

[smashkng]

Hello ZSS boards. A ZSS player here. I've been reading some things here from time to time but not really posted cause I prefer chat format over forum format.

Anyway, I just got 1st at a tourney here in Sweden with around 25 entrants on Smash 4. I played vs a good Little Mac (who switched to CF by the end) in WFs and GFs. Vids have been uploaded on Youtube, which could show a little bit how this ZSS vs Little Mac matchup plays out.
WFs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaU2JYhv8f8
GFs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULC-y46RzrQ

I did pretty well vs Mac. However I did make some major mistakes. Like sometimes going for up b instead of a guaranteed grab. Just have the bad habit of sometimes being to scared of being able to punish with a grab or even Dsmash. And in the CF match I lost, all 3 times I got KOed were really weird. @ 7:35 in the GFs set I should've Daired. @ 9:15 I should've gone for Fsmash. Hitconfirming is hard sometimes. @ 10:13 things got weird with the plataform. I whiffed the Bair, which I didn't expect and then grabbed the ledge, with the situation being so strange, forgetting that I grabbed the ledge already and got Daired. I should prolly have ledge hop Uaired or ledge JUMP Baired. Didn't know that ledge hop Bair didn't hit high enough to connect on people on the SV plataform. I got a little bit upset when that happened.

Anything else to note that I should improve at?

 

[Remzi]

Hey guys,

here's me vs Boss in Winners Finals and then Grand Finals last week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nByLHS5fjHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGtrRUzS0Q

 

[hiROI]

Hey guys,

here's me vs Boss in Winners Finals and then Grand Finals last week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nByLHS5fjHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGtrRUzS0Q

Watched both sets and I want to say you have phenomenal use of B-reversals, Zair and Nair for spacing and stage control. What I noticed from your matches, especially in the set of GF, is the moment Boss closed the gap between you two, Boss was winning the match up. With Luigi's Jab and number of options to beat spotdodges, shields and airdodges to the ground, it was getting scary for you. He adapted to you in the first two games of GF and you adapted back to snatch the set with your 1. Red suit color change and 2. barely approaching and really taking advantage of ZSS's phenomenal stage control and zoning game. It shows ZSS has answers to a lot of MUs, just have to be able to stay committed.

Also, I read somewhere that it is better to be hit by Luigi's fireball than to shield it since you can punish him more easily. It didn't click until now watching your set. But phenomenal job on the tournament win! You should post your result in the new tournament result thread *shameless plug*

______________________

Here are two more videos from this past Monday's weekly. I got 7/40. Little disappointed and I definitely could have done better.

Here is a Doubles video in Winners with my partner Noa (Ness). We use the same healing technique Shaky and Nick Riddle made famous in Brawl.
http://www.twitch.tv/eccentricemporium/b/671554856?t=50m05s

Here is a video from Singles against KDB (Yoshi) (Won this week's weekly as well). He is the same player that I played in Winners Finals two weeks ago. I won game one and lost the following two. We discussed our match after and he said that if I kept the zoning mentality and just chip damage in and capitalize on mistakes, I could've taken the set. But please critique this video, I could really use the assistance.
http://www.twitch.tv/eccentricemporium/b/671554856?t=238m10s

I use the Amy tag because I recently watched Gone Girl and I really resonated with Amy.

 

[Arma_]

Nicole and I are just doing some friendlies (mostly ZSS dittos, but there will be other random matchups that usually include ZSS) if anybody wants to see.

http://www.twitch.tv/armadeous

 

[Nicole]

VS Chibo

VS Lord Sturm

VS Mr Eric

 

[infiniteV115]

k got 1st at a major in Canada. Here's me beating

M2K
Chris Fisch (Diddy)
Ally

And here's GFs against
Poke (Luigi/DK)

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

k got 1st at a major in Canada. Here's me beating

M2K
Chris Fisch (Diddy)
Ally

And here's GFs against
Poke (Luigi/DK)

Thoooooose Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeads

Small question. Why did you never go for the dThrow > uAir > uAir > uSpecial combo?
You had Diddy, ROB and DK at the right percentages and you got the grab.
On Diddy I can understand but ROB and DK are basically free stocks at this point.
Is there any particular reason?

 

[pichuthedk]

Thoooooose Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeads

Small question. Why did you never go for the dThrow > uAir > uAir > uSpecial combo?
You had Diddy, ROB and DK at the right percentages and you got the grab.
On Diddy I can understand but ROB and DK are basically free stocks at this point.
Is there any particular reason?

Because V115 doesn't know as much about current zss as I do he's just over 9000 times better ,smarter and probably more handsome then me xD.

Jokes aside I don't think he has a wii u so he only plays at smash fests/tournaments.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Because V115 doesn't know as much about current zss as I do he's just over 9000 times better ,smarter and probably more handsome then me xD.

Jokes aside I don't think he has a wii u so he only plays at smash fests/tournaments.

Thats quite impressive

Spoiler

ure pretty handsome doe

 

[pichuthedk]

Awww thanks Bae xD.

Ugh I gotta find my motivation and get back on the Mu grind if anyone has anything for sonic post it and give me a suggestion for the next mu I'll try to hammer them out every other day with a push in the right direction...errr and lack of johns on my part.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Awww thanks Bae xD.

Ugh I gotta find my motivation and get back on the Mu grind if anyone has anything for sonic post it and give me a suggestion for the next mu I'll try to hammer them out every other day with a push in the right direction...errr and lack of johns on my part.

I just wish you would do a proper OP like the other boards ;_;

 

[Shaya]

@ infiniteV115 . You have one of the best game plans/styles for any Zero Suit I've seen from anywhere. As a player you show significantly better composure than Choco, you may not be on Nairo's "level" but your Zero Suit centric smarts/punishes really are exquisite, when you aren't SDing ("not like it matters") your execution is pretty top notch. Hat's off to you, you're someone we should all be learning from.

 

[pichuthedk]

I just wish you would do a proper OP like the other boards ;_;

I actually need to learn how you are referring to the ones that have like spoilers and a link for each char with their picture, that takesyou directly to the post right?

@ infiniteV115 . You have the best game plan of any Zero Suit I've seen from anyone; showing significantly better composure than Choco has under pressure. You may not be Nairo's "level" but your precision (when you aren't SDing) and Zero Suit centric smarts really are some of the best I've seen. Hat's off to you, you're someone we should all be studying.

I've been his unofficial understudy for a few years now and let me tell you ****'s not easy.

I also feel like a part from the zss dittos tidbits he picked up while murdering me in bracket every time we faced that my fraudulent ways contributed to his loss to Salem at apex 2 years ago T.T.

It's no wonder senpai won't notice me xD.

We also do not know which of our zss's are the pioneers of SDing.

 

[infiniteV115]

Thoooooose Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeads

Small question. Why did you never go for the dThrow > uAir > uAir > uSpecial combo?
You had Diddy, ROB and DK at the right percentages and you got the grab.
On Diddy I can understand but ROB and DK are basically free stocks at this point.
Is there any particular reason?

I did do it to DK once but yeah I may not be doing it enough. Like Ryoko (pichuthedk) said I don't have a Wii U and I'm still learning; I just have fundamentals which I developed in Brawl and I'm decently familiar/comfortable with the game at this point, so I can apply them.

I sorta feel like upB will never work unless I hit them with the first hit of it, and it usually seems like there's not enough stun out of uair strings to DJ into them and then get the first hit of upB (many a time I've tried and they've airdodged to avoid it, then they punish my landing with w/e they want). I realize now that I'm probably wrong about needing the first hit, especially since I just watched NR's vid on DIing Boost Kick which demonstrated otherwise. And I don't know the percentages

I was also doing a pretty good job of conditioning/reading airdodges and just juggling with uairs to build tons of damage, so if Boost Kick won't kill and I can keep it fresh for later and still do the same/more damage without it, I'll do that.

But yeah TL;DR not super familiar with the game yet, hence the multiple SDs. When I'm on stage tho ill *** u up

P.S: And as always, lmk when I'm better than Nick Riddle

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I did do it to DK once but yeah I may not be doing it enough. Like Ryoko (pichuthedk) said I don't have a Wii U and I'm still learning; I just have fundamentals which I developed in Brawl and I'm decently familiar/comfortable with the game at this point, so I can apply them.

I sorta feel like upB will never work unless I hit them with the first hit of it, and it usually seems like there's not enough stun out of uair strings to DJ into them and then get the first hit of upB (many a time I've tried and they've airdodged to avoid it, then they punish my landing with w/e they want). I realize now that I'm probably wrong about needing the first hit, especially since I just watched NR's vid on DIing Boost Kick which demonstrated otherwise. And I don't know the percentages

I was also doing a pretty good job of conditioning/reading airdodges and just juggling with uairs to build tons of damage, so if Boost Kick won't kill and I can keep it fresh for later and still do the same/more damage without it, I'll do that.

But yeah TL;DR not super familiar with the game yet, hence the multiple SDs. When I'm on stage tho ill *** u up

P.S: And as always, lmk when I'm better than Nick Riddle

The uAir > uAir > uSpecial combo has a pretty strict percent range since as you already said, it tends to miss if you're not on the same height as your opponent. It's something between 34% and 48% for 90% of the cast if you start with dThrow.
Getting an uSpecial right after a dThrow pretty much only works if you perfectly read their DI so it's super risky.

That said, you're super fun to watch nonetheless and I hope we can see you more often.
Do you plan on buying a Wii U in the near future? I'd give you $20 on kickstarter lol

I actually need to learn how you are referring to the ones that have like spoilers and a link for each char with their picture, that takesyou directly to the post right?

Yeah that, and those fancy MU percent tables for all characters, where we can write in big red letters "EVEN OR SLIGHTLY IN FAVOUR FOR (insert other character here) SIGNED BY DELUX

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah I'll be getting one. I made like at least 450 from winning EXP and I also got a part time job a few weeks ago, so I don't think I'll need help. Just wanna secure my trip to smash con and some other things before getting a Wii U

 

[Shaya]

You suck compared to NickRiddle.
Because Sonic is relevant while Ally and Mew2King are Brawl scrubs.

Oh, but you aren't comfortable confirming/comboing into flip jump kick yet. Travesty.
IT'S COOLER THAN BOOST KICK.

 

[infiniteV115]

I know some of the setups but am not entirely sure exactly when/where they work. Like I know about ff nair --> downB and bthrow --> downB but I can't get them all the time