Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Dakpo]

Questions.

Where can I find a technical thread for stuff like platform cancelling? I would like to learn or try all of the techs.

Any techs you might think I don't know about specific to Zss?

Final question I can't do the up B under the stage properly when being ledge guarded so how is it performed properly?

can you show me a video of what you mean by the last one?

 

[.EXE]

It's like when olimar is hanging on the ledge and uses Up air under the stage to hit the opponent guarding him, I can't find the video but I hope this helps in what I mean.

So basically it is up B under the ledge and making it come through the stage is what I am trying to perform.

 

[infiniteV115]

Depends on which stage you're talking about.
It's very easy on FD and PS1 (same idea) because you can walljump back to safety. Just basically jump into the wall/corner thingy and upB, and while ZSS is upBing through the stage, hold away from the wall so that when she's done, you'll automatically wall jump back towards the ledge.
Obviously, don't get predictable with it cause on PS1 the opponent could have an attack that goes right through the edge and stagespike you (eg Olimar dsmash, Tin did it to me >_>)
Don't do it to a Snake, cause if he pulls a nade you get stagespiked (on both PS1 and FD)
On SV, Lylat and BF, it's a little harder and a little less safe but basically you have to b-reverse it, and if you're too close to the edge then it won't poke through at all.

On stages like Halberd, Delfino and Brinstar you have to go pretty far away from the ledge (ie toward the centre of the stage, but far from the ledge) or else you'll just grab the edge.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I made a video with Peace about doing the upb under the stage on BF/SV.

You have to reverse it and make sure you have no horizontal momentum AND space it semi perfectly and then you're cool.

 

[infiniteV115]

Here's the vid, .exe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZtYQuv2H0Y
upB through SV at 0:34 and 0:49
upB through BF at 1:02, 1:15

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Thanks a bunch, Infinite <3

 

[.EXE]

@ InfiniteV115 thank you for answering my question. I'll try to rmemeber that about snake and Olimar I usually don't rmember these things unless I get hit by them on have seen them at least 1-2 times. Like today I learned Ganon has a tech jump thingy that's really weird I want to learn it.

@ Xonar and Peace um thank you for the video I actually saw that a long time ago and have it saved on my youtube profile. Thing is I had trouble remembering the name for some odd reason but I did use it as a way of reminding myself what I can do as that character. Thank you for finding it for me.

@Xonar we are +2 against samus does this have to do anything with her dodging as she lands and being fast as in able to avoid projectiles like the matrix aka Zelda? When I say this I mean as in probably spacing with quite a bit of dodging in mind just getting past the projectiles.

@BioDG thank you for playing me that day and doing the up B under stage thingy with me sorry guys but bio got to me first before I was able to check this site.

@NickRiddle you are not as active around here it seems, dunno what you are up to but for some reason I feel that I may need to piss you off somehow just to get a post from you or to get your opinion on anything. Don't worry I'll figure out a question that may irritate you that forces you to come out of hiding.

I lost to a fox on ladder Fox questions coming up soon.

 

[NickRiddle]

There are no questions that other people won't answer as well as I will. I'll just be blunt and call you stupid, so I try to stay out of discussion.
Like in the MU stuff... which I should make more threads for...

 

[Tesh]

Its true, you don't wanna be in the way when his laser goes off.

 

[NickRiddle]

Its true, you don't wanna be in the way when his laser goes off.

If you get d-smashed in it, you cannot SDI~

 

[BioDG]

It's no problem, .EXE.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It means we have enough speed to give Samus no time to set up traps.

 

[infiniteV115]

2 questions.

1: What exactly is the frame advantage on our DAL? I know (well...iirc) that a buffered dash attack comes out in 6 frames, since dash attack comes out in 6 frames. Is our frame advantage exactly 6 frames, or is it more? Is it less? Sometimes I've been hit by Marth upBs out of DAL, but that might just be screwing up...
So, frame advantage on DAL?
How quickly does a buffered dash attack come out?
And (if you can) can you make a list on the percentages when a fresh DA has a +3 frame advantage on each character? (I'd like to know when DA-->utilt is guaranteed)

2: In the OP of a recently necro'd thread (I'm posting here cause I don't want to bump it again) it states that ZSS' chaingrabs are not legitimate, and that at best you can get 1 or 2 regrabs on a few characters...is this true?
Cause I have seemingly 'screwed up' multiple fthrow CGs on Snakes...even though I was fairly certain that I was buffering the dash grabs.
In other words, a list of fthrow CGs including what percent range to start with, and the # of regrabs on each character would be nice...if possible.

Obviously if you can answer these but don't want to give the fully detailed lists, go ahead.

 

[BioDG]

There is a list on the CGs somewhere in the stickies. It should be in the resource guide, IIRC.

I'd try to answer, but there would be too much guesswork on my part.

 

[PGH Carroll]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag2DAq64R9o

any general advice would be worddddddd
it was my first time playing brawl in a while and wanna get back into it.
im the black one if you couldnt tell lol

 

[infiniteV115]

Post it in the critique thread.

 

[.EXE]

Thank you nick Riddle.

 

[PEACE7]

Zelda MU my peeps please break it down for me, tell me what beats what as well as good counterpicks and whatever good comes to mind.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Why don't we discuss this in the Zelda MU thread?

 

[NickRiddle]

Nobody discusses anything in those threads. That is why I stopped making them.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

True enough.

 

[PEACE7]

Oh **** my bad

 

[Coolwhip]

What are the pros & cons of playing zss?
Something about her, it's like she's telling me to pick her up. xD

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

She's sexually attractive.

 

[infiniteV115]

That.

Pros - She's mobile, has a good recovery, can combo well, builds up damage quickly, has no problem killing, can juggle well, has one of the best air games out of the entire roster, very few people know the MU against her, starts off with suitpieces (which are awesome), doesn't get screwed over by any stages and she's fun.

Cons - She's very light, has a bad out-of-shield game and her grab is pretty bad. She has trouble approaching some characters and also has trouble landing against some characters.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ima disagree with the OoS game.

But besides that, basically that.

And shes hot.

 

[.EXE]

Up B when used on the ground pretty much needs to be really close/literally touching the opponent like Jiggs rest or something like that.

Does anyone know how big that hit box is that forces them up and can it still preform the same function in the air?

 

[djdevil96]

Whats the best way to train for a tournament (excluding playing against another person)?

 

[infiniteV115]

If you can't face ANYONE (ie nobody offline and you don't have Wifi) then face CPUs I guess, but it won't really help much.

If you can't face anyone offline but you have Wifi then use Wifi, and then for a day or two before the tournament face CPUs for like 2 or 3 hours so that you don't have Wifi timing.

Though it depends on how long you have until the next tournament. If it's like, tomorrow morning, then wifi for a few hours+comps for a few hours won't really help and you should stick with nothing but CPUs.

If it's in like a week or more then go with Wifi+CPUs

 

[Dakpo]

I would say that if you don't have wifi, then play against CPUs but don't play them as though they are CPUs. Focus on punishing and shielding.
The second thing I would recommend is to watch the pro zss videos and emulate their movements in practice mode and download their tactics against certain match ups

 

[TheCrimsonFlash]

So I was watching some nick riddle and salem videos and I have a few questions.

If you do a down wavebounce and land on your opponents head zero suit will fly away from the opponent, I was wondering is there any type of use for this? I feel like it can be used for something but it feels risky, seems like a good chance for your foe to up smash you to death. here's a video as an example if I have not made myself clear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HGoFpR3ijs

Second thing I noticed is, they were able to edge grab cancel and I have no idea how to do this. Basically once the edge is hooked with the plasma whip after you get knocked off the stage instead of the whip retracting so you get pulled up to the stage, it looks like they were able to jump immediately canceling out the retraction of the whip. I think this can be very helpful for edge guarders and such. Anyone know how to do this? I can find the video if you still don't understand what I mean.

Last question. What control set up am I supposed to use so I can wave bounce and glide toss in all directions? Everything is default except C stick is special. These are two very important things for a good ZSS player, so help anyone? :D

 

[infiniteV115]

So I was watching some nick riddle and salem videos and I have a few questions.

If you do a down wavebounce and land on your opponents head zero suit will fly away from the opponent, I was wondering is there any type of use for this? I feel like it can be used for something but it feels risky, seems like a good chance for your foe to up smash you to death. here's a video as an example if I have not made myself clear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HGoFpR3ijs

Well, the safest and most practical use for her downB footstool is for when she's recovering. Characters with tether recoveries (eg Olimar, Ivysaur) tend to be susceptible to edgeguarding and edgehogging, but ZSS isn't, and it's mainly because of her downB.
The thing is, if somebody tries to edgehog you while you're recovering (edgehog = grab the edge so that you can't grab/tether to it), ZSS can simply downB over them, footstool off their heads and land safely on stage.
And when you add it to the fact that you don't have to time the footstool (you can simply hold the X/Y button or hold up on the analog and it'll automatically footstool ASAP), the footstool itself has huge range, you can footstool people even when they have the ledge invincibility and the frame data on her downB is pretty great...you have a pretty damn good recovering tool.
The frame data on her footstool is
For frames 1-12, she's completely invincible, and then you start being able to footstool from frame 19, that means that she's only really vulnerable from frames 13-18, 6 frames = 1/10th of a second.
So yeah, it's mainly for recovering. Onstage it can be pretty risky.

Second thing I noticed is, they were able to edge grab cancel and I have no idea how to do this. Basically once the edge is hooked with the plasma whip after you get knocked off the stage instead of the whip retracting so you get pulled up to the stage, it looks like they were able to jump immediately canceling out the retraction of the whip. I think this can be very helpful for edge guarders and such. Anyone know how to do this? I can find the video if you still don't understand what I mean.

To cancel the tether, simply press down on the analog stick.
To jump out of the tether, you have to cancel it first (press down) and then press jump. After you cancel your tether, you can do pretty much anything you would normally be able to do in the air.
Except, uh, all tether characters can only tether to the edge 3 times before hitting the ground. If they try to tether more than 3 times, the tether will simply not latch to the edge and you'll fall to your death. So be careful with that. If you've tethered 3 times already be sure to get on stage immediately.

Last question. What control set up am I supposed to use so I can wave bounce and glide toss in all directions? Everything is default except C stick is special. These are two very important things for a good ZSS player, so help anyone? :D

You don't need a different control set-up to wavebounce, b-reverse or turnaround-b. I do them all with nothing but the analog stick and the Y-button (I have Y set to special), but if the Y button works then the B-button should work as well.
Similarly, you don't need a different set-up to glidetoss in all directions; the default works just fine (ie C-stick set to smash. Setting it to attack also works). Why did you set the C-stick to special?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I only b stick when i used to use peach. It seems unnecessary now, I jump with x and have r for special so I can OoS b moves. Which helps for my other characters. You need c to smash or attack to glide toss efficiently.

 

[BioDG]

Yeah, b-sticking is not necessary for any of those forms of wavebouncing.

However, there is one thing that you can do that is only possible with b-sticking: A retreating wavebounce sideB that faces your opponent. It can be useful for zoning tactics or forcing an approach, as well as adjusting your spacing upon landing while attacking safely. I've recently adjusted my controls for it, so I'm curious to see how much practical use it will have. It seems highly situational considering we still have other options (like, you know, a normal retreating sideB), but it does seem to have its perks at times.

 

[NickRiddle]

Yeah, b-sticking is not necessary for any of those forms of wavebouncing.

However, there is one thing that you can do that is only possible with b-sticking: A retreating wavebounce sideB that faces your opponent. It can be useful for zoning tactics or forcing an approach, as well as adjusting your spacing upon landing while attacking safely. I've recently adjusted my controls for it, so I'm curious to see how much practical use it will have. It seems highly situational considering we still have other options (like, you know, a normal retreating sideB), but it does seem to have its perks at times.

This is where you're wrong. I can do the run towards you > retreating side-b aimed at you.

Run > Jump > Back > B > Forward
I think that's the input.

 

[infiniteV115]

It's run-->back-->jump (for an RAR) so now you're facing away from your opponent.
Then, while still holding back (or, what was initially 'back'), press B-->forward (what was initially 'forward')

So, if you were running right, it'd be.
Run right-->left-->jump-->B(while still holding left)-->right

And you can do the same with a nB, just don't hold left while you press B.

 

[NickRiddle]

That would just make you move forward... won't it?

 

[Dakpo]

I bstick a lot! Ill try and upload a set vs treLUCARIOa this weekend

 

[infiniteV115]

That would just make you move forward... won't it?

No, you're still moving forward (right) from the RAR, then you sideB to the left, and press right to reverse your momentum and to change the direction of your sideB.

 

[TheCrimsonFlash]

Well, the safest and most practical use for her downB footstool is for when she's recovering. Characters with tether recoveries (eg Olimar, Ivysaur) tend to be susceptible to edgeguarding and edgehogging, but ZSS isn't, and it's mainly because of her downB.
The thing is, if somebody tries to edgehog you while you're recovering (edgehog = grab the edge so that you can't grab/tether to it), ZSS can simply downB over them, footstool off their heads and land safely on stage.
And when you add it to the fact that you don't have to time the footstool (you can simply hold the X/Y button or hold up on the analog and it'll automatically footstool ASAP), the footstool itself has huge range, you can footstool people even when they have the ledge invincibility and the frame data on her downB is pretty great...you have a pretty damn good recovering tool.
The frame data on her footstool is
For frames 1-12, she's completely invincible, and then you start being able to footstool from frame 19, that means that she's only really vulnerable from frames 13-18, 6 frames = 1/10th of a second.
So yeah, it's mainly for recovering. Onstage it can be pretty risky.

To cancel the tether, simply press down on the analog stick.
To jump out of the tether, you have to cancel it first (press down) and then press jump. After you cancel your tether, you can do pretty much anything you would normally be able to do in the air.
Except, uh, all tether characters can only tether to the edge 3 times before hitting the ground. If they try to tether more than 3 times, the tether will simply not latch to the edge and you'll fall to your death. So be careful with that. If you've tethered 3 times already be sure to get on stage immediately.
You don't need a different control set-up to wavebounce, b-reverse or turnaround-b. I do them all with nothing but the analog stick and the Y-button (I have Y set to special), but if the Y button works then the B-button should work as well.
Similarly, you don't need a different set-up to glidetoss in all directions; the default works just fine (ie C-stick set to smash. Setting it to attack also works). Why did you set the C-stick to special?

Okay so its pretty much another recovery tool. Sweet, i'll try to work it into my play style.

I set the C stick to special because it was recommended on a wave bounce video I saw. So if I'm doing it wrong how exactly am I supposed to pull off a side B wave bounce with Y button? The C stick is pushed in the opposite direction im moving in, to wave bounce so I'm not sure how I can do this.